moving day upcometh and I'm getting nervous.

[flintstone mop]

OK Here's the scoop!!
Gotta an engineering problem. It's all about Ray!
I realize DERB's dilemma with logistics and the bigger problem of re-assembling Ray BUT This seems like the only way to get Ray manageable for moving.
My thoughts are to pull out the iron, the two back doors (60lbs a piece), remove the chassis that have their own power supplies. might be 4 of 'em. That might lighten the box by another 150 lbs. Of course, there would be extensive documentation, color coding wire harness connections and even placement for the iron on the floor of the cabinet. Lottsa digital pics.

The next idea is, while the cabinet is becoming manageable, lay Ray on his side and mount wheels in the well. I'm assuming that high quality heavy duty rubber wheels could be mounted under there and may only lift the height of Ray by 3 inches. Does any one know how deep the area is under a RA 250 or the RA1000?? I could PM Roger, KC8OPP, and ask if he has mobilized his RA250. Anyone reading this know the depth?

This way Ray would be mobile and hopefully only raised in height about 3 inches. I remember a 20V2 that I bought from Howard W3HM, and it had nice wheels mounted in this well area and only lifted it a couple of inches, just enough to get it mobile for moving or maintenance.

Any of these thoughts would pending approval of DERB, as this is not my transmitter. He is the owner.Tim wants to transport as an operating box BUT this is hindering this project from moving cuz it's so DAM heavy!!!!

BUT the other problem is hooking all the goodies back up on Tim's side. If push comes to shove I would have to go there myself and hook it up for him. cuz we're not going any where fast presently on this.


Maybe we have to take a vote to pay the price and ship assembled or make it easier for movers and Tim and disassemble.........butputting back together is astopper.


FRED

[Jeff W9GY]

Fred, count me in for a donation if that will get Ray to Derb's place.  Jeff W9GY

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Sounds like one of those 'rock and a hard place' scenarios to me, Fred. If it doesn't have wheels on it now, it needs them ASAP in my opinion. The was the first thing I did to the 300G after hauling it from Colorado to VT. We moved that one by laying it on its side and rolling it on pipes, then tying it into place on the pipes for the trip. This made removal from a dinky U-Haul trailer much easier. But Barry had done all of the major disassembly beforehand. He removed not only the iron but also the side panels which made it easier to move and prevented the sides from getting damaged since they were removed and wrapped. IIRC, the RA-250 is in the same ballpark os the 300G, bumping 1400 lbs.

I also moved 'Big Ray' back in 2005, the RA-1000 from Elizabeth City NC back to VT. From first hand experience I know that the Raytheon gear is incredibly overbuilt, beyond even the quality of Collins. This means that simply removing the iron and tipping it on its side to add wheels isn't a realistic option since the thick double-walled cabinet will still keep the weight close to 1000 lbs even after removing the iron.

My suggestion would be to get a few folks over there ahead of time to get some wheels on the beast. That will not only make it easier on Tim once he has it home, it will make moving a lot easier as well. Depending on the overall height, it would be easiest to move it assembled with a lift-gate truck by simply rolling it onto the gate (those gates are good for 2000 - 2500 lbs or more), lifting it to the back, and rolling it on then off at Derbville.

When I moved everything south from VT including the Big Fridge, this was the approach we used and it worked slick, except for one issue with the 300G being about an inch too tall to fit in one of the trucks. Moved it later with a different truck, no problems. Penske has a mid-sized cabover lift gate that can be rented locally (meaning 2 way) very reasonably. This is what HUZ and I used to move the 21E back in March, and from NC to Syracuse and back was under $400 not counting fuel. Think it was around 1400-1600 miles. So 500 R/T would be cheap and FAR easier. Moving blankets are $15/doz, one doz should easily cover it up for safe hauling. I just drape several over the top to cover the entire top half/two thirds and hold them in place with packing tape around them. Quick, easy, and effective. You just have to peel the tape off the blankets before returning them.

So that's my 2 cents, based on a half dozen or more big iron moves in the last few years. Moving intact is the preferred method provided you can keep it stood up and you're good with rope and knots. I just used cheap clothesline and cut it afterward if the knots protested too much. Screw some 2x4s to the floor around the base, protect it with blankets, and yer off to the races. Provided you get casters on it first.

And Derb, rest assured: you'll get it there eventually. Stuff happens, you figure it out and work through it. Persistence is what counts. If you knew what Steve and I went through moving the 21E, you wouldn't leave the house.  

[flintstone mop]

Thanks Jeff for the offer, maybe PM Tim for some input about your post.
Todd, the wheels are the only way for sure, but tipping Ray on his side will either require 5 strong men minimum, as that was the way I got it home from Jay's. The iron was out and it was still a BITCH to deal with.
I agree "a rock and a hard place"


http://www.reevesstorefixtures.com/used_handtrucks.htm
Sample of a 1200 lb capacity hand truck (last one)


I think a simpler way would be to get the riggers to load on my end into a stake body truck with lift gate. On Tim's side a manly warehouse hand truck and a few hardy souls and it would be in his garage.
I don't like the U-haul trailer approach. They get unstable
EDIT::: Renting a handtruck for heavy stuff is not easy to find. The riggers Tim was going to hire will not rent their heavy duty hand truck out for that type of job. They do not want to be held liable if there is any accident or failure dealing with the weight of Ray.

Looks like the ole fashioned way might be the best.

Fred

[N3DRB The Derb]

Jeff, thanks for the offer, thats incredibly generous of you.

I think myself and Fred are going to work out another moving date next month before he goes overseas. I am going to take Todd's suggestions to heart, as the real issue is that Ray is not on wheels and cant be lifted back on Jay's dolly. I think Ray has to be made mobile before anything else can happen. I think the wheels need to have brakes integral to them and be screwed and bolted down to Ray's under side.

I can get excellent double race ball bearing casters that will carry 400 pounds each, a set of 4 for less than 60 bucks. the riggers could tip the thing up  so we could install new wheels on Ray himself and tip him back down once he is clear of the garage door. Then Ray becomes considerably eisier to handle from there on out. My door is 6' 7" high.

I think I am going to angle for the second try on the June 9-10-11-12 timeframe or the weekend afterward. I am going to look for a moving truck that has a liftgate and that we can transport ray in vertically on his new wheels. I think the trailer idea is not going to fly on my end.

Lemme brainstorm a while. I think I'll make a new thread on this as well.




 

[Jeff W9GY]

My thoughts were that if a bunch of us would kick in a small amount, that would take some of the financial pressure off.  I can't be the guy on the collecting end, cause I'm gonna be away on vacation.  However if someone would step up to the plate that is closer to the operation, I'll be the first to make a donation.

Stay well, Derb, my XYL is a 4 year cancer survivor and we are accutely aware of the ups and downs.  73 Jeff

[WD8BIL]

Why not just send it to Derb directly? No need for a middleman.

[K7NCR]

I got a chance to visit with the DERB on the cellofonium yesterday. I wish I could have been more help, but I gave him some info that may save him some $$$ if he can use it.
I couldn't help but post these here,,,,I'm the guy on the left trying out the new mic. Maybe the BJB and Sarah's radio cousin are related?

[flintstone mop]

YUP Buddly
I'll pass an offering plate over to Tim.
Do you have a PayPal account..............Tim?

And good idea on the wheels installed while the riggers have Ray tilted. We'll have to have quick thinking and design to install. As they say in a service industry, "time is money".
Is anyone familiar with the "floor plan" of the RA series TX. The underside??
Someone try to follow what I'm describing. I'm not good at explaining mechanical construction. TNX..............
If we could PRE-fabricate a metal frame with the wheels installed and slide it under Ray, and fashion it in a way that the frame would fit within the well area on Ray's bottom. That way it would only raise the height of Ray a couple of inches from the floor and enable Ray to move about.
The wheels would have to be good strong rubber wheels, for smooth moving.
Does anyone cubeesh ??(Italian for understand)

Fred

[WBear2GCR]

Forget wheels. Impossible.

You are not going to find wheels that will not collapse under the weight. IF one collapses while ur attempting a move, you've got a very hurt person(s) and a broken transmitter.

Also for that load capacity they would have to be steel and probably too high. won't roll too good unless the surface is smooth...

PIPES.

Pipes are lower, stable, and will not crush.
Pipes make turns easy.
Free or cheap.

you go slow, you move 6-12" a time, then move the back pipe  to the front.

When you are done, you sub out the pipes for blocks... as suggested before you want to have along some nice sized wedges (like door stops) out of a solid wood to make it easy to keep the thing from rolling without having to push/pull/hold... good for putting behind it on a slight upslope or in front on a slight downslope...

I think I said, I could do it solo with pipes, wedges and a few long bars...

I'd bet I could even do the tip over solo with a truck's liftgate...  blocks, bars, etc...that and enough moving blankets... no fun, but could be done.

A bunch of big ratchet straps, maybe a come-a-long and ur good to go...

I'd not put the thing over on it's side or back flush on the ground/surface ever - hard to get under the edge to lift it back up...

REMEMBER any truck you get needs tie down points INSIDE the box, if it is an enclosed box. A flatbed is better because the tie down is easy.

                  pipes...

                              _-_-bear

[Jeff W9GY]

Yeh Tim, let us know if u have a paypal acct.  If so, ur email addr so we can grease ur palm a little.

[WBear2GCR]

The pipe technique explained:

1. Lift a corner of the base. This is to get ur bar under to place a block.
1a. push on upper top of unit enough to slide a 1/4" wood or steel bar under, push on wide side, you want to get at the short side.
1b. this give you room for your pry bar.
1c. you need a 2-3" or better pry bar.
1d. A straight bar permits the addition of a pipe, if you need it.

2. Place pry bar under center of short side - lift and insert blocks (they're short now) under left and right corners.
3. Repeat using block(s) under the bar, and taller blocks on the left and right corners.
3a. You want to get the side up high enough to insert the first pipe!


       |__________________________________|
                                         o                 []  <----initial blocking and first pipe in (chassis tilt not shown in Ascii)

4. Insert first pipe.

5. Two choices:
A. insert pipe near lifted end, and then proceed to lift the opposite end - lift in small increments!
B. insert pipe near center point, and then LOWER the blocked up side, raising the opposite side - place TWO pipes first - one centerish and the other near the lifted side... then pop in the far end point pipe.

Which you pick depends on the "feel" of the unit, and its stability. Lift slowly and in small amounts at a time.

You want to end up with three (or 4) pipes under the unit:

    PUSH! --->   |__________________________________|
                          o                     o                      o   ----> you go this way....



                  PUSH! --->   |__________________________________|   ----> you go this way.... then put next pipe down
                          o                     o                      o                           o






               _-_-bear

     

[ka3zlr]

Really, In my early long distance driving career we used safe dollies
for such moves I pulled a Double drop frame air ride trailer back then
worked great for big heavy stuff roll right up the 3500 pound test
walkboard. Any good locksmiths in town there Derb they have the
Dolly(s) you could use to get this done.

Pipe is OK if ya have enough laying around and then whatya do with it
when the move is over, stuck with all this pipe.

Do whatcha gotta do brother.

73

Jack.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Forget wheels. Impossible.

You are not going to find wheels that will not collapse under the weight. IF one collapses while ur attempting a move, you've got a very hurt person(s) and a broken transmitter.

Not true at all. I've got nearly 1400 lbs sitting on casters on the garage concrete floor. They've been installed since 2003 without issue. The trick is getting casters rated for the weight and using proper hardware to install them. Then it's done.

So what you're saying is that Derb needs to leave the transmitter in the middle of his room once it's there so he can get into the back for maintenance and repair work. Because if you move it with pipes and 'install' it onto blocks or whatever, that's where it stays. Derb isn't going to move 1400 lbs of dead weight once the cabinet digs into the floor. This isn't something you can dance across the floor like a relay rack. Those Raytheons are not only big, they're dense.

Wheels are anything but impossible. In fact, for those familiar with heavy gear, they're pretty much mandatory. I moved my first BC transmitter with pipes, it works but it takes a whole crew for even the most minor move (lay it down or lift it onto pipes, move it, stand it up/lift it off pipes).

Pipes have their place and work well in them. For Derb's future use and accessibility, this isn't one of them. In today's world of mobility with lift-gate trucks and room to move things around, pipes are in fact more restrictive than helpful, more of a last resort.

Of course, I could be missing something here. Have you moved many big rigs, Randall? Not T-368 or BC-610 size (I even used wheels in those), half ton or more? It took a few conversations with W2ILA to convince me that I needed to add wheels while the transmitter was on its side, but life has been much easier since doing so. Can't imagine having to yank the iron and half-dismantle a transmitter every time I want to move it.

Derb/Fred - how tall is the transmitter as it sits right now? Getting it into a box truck and through doorways will be the biggest issue. I've yet to find an open truck with a lift gate that you can rent.

[KC4VWU]

Wheels no good? Not exactly. I guarantee my Snap-On toolbox loaded weighs every bit as much as that tx. and it moves/sits on wheels. Is it dangerous? Most definately; and so is every method previously discussed. The lift gates on most moving trucks DO NOT raise up level and I know this as a fact. I was a mechanic for 18 years with mechanic friends and I have made dozens of tool box moves. Very heavy stuff. After all the headaches, my last few moves consisted of hiring a roll back. Get it to the truck and the driver can strap it, winch it on, and tie it down. If you are going to use casters, get in touch with Snap-On, Mac, Cornwell, or Matco and get some real wheels with brakes on them to put underneath. They'll last forever.

Whatever method you choose, be SAFE! It only takes one mistake with something that heavy to have a life altering incident.

Be Safe &73, Phil

[WQ9E]

Take a look at the Grainger online catalog for caster ideas.  They have numerous units in the 500 - 1,200 pound per caster range and some taller ones rated for 3,000 per caster.  There are certainly plenty available that will easily handle the transmitter. 

[Jeff W9GY]

I've got Mr. Parker Gates BC-1G on 8 casters from Harbor Freight moving dollies.  W/O them no way to tinker with innards in the back.

[N3DRB The Derb]

my paypal account is timothyhwest@comcast.net  

I was proud of myself that I was able to afford to buy Ray on my own with wifey's help and me selling some of the homebrew stuff I couldnt use.  buying Ray was kinda my way of saying this is my investment in AM even though homebrewing wasn't doable anymore. It was the right decision.

I have to confess I never really thought about how high the additional cost of relocation might be.   If I hadnt had all that crap happen to me all at once, I still could have done it. The killer was the mirror getting busted ( which is now fixed ) which just ruined the trip.

Rays got to be wheeled. pipes are fine for moving but here by myself I have to be able to move him out from the wall and get to the back doors, and the back doors have to be on it because of critters that might get in there when I'm not looking.

Get the right set of wheels under Ray, double race ball bearings with zerk grease fittings, and moving him will never be a problem again. they can still get him tilted back to get out from Fred's,  wheels or no wheels. But he's got to be wheeled on Freds end with the help of the riggers.

I can supply the wheels and the riggers can fix Ray up so they can be installed before it goes on the truck to my place.

the fly in the ointment is if I have to be out of the area getting my tumor treated. I just got a call from a Cyberknife center in Roanoke VA.  that has treated a woman that was 400 lbs, and if they will treat me, I'll be down there and out of action for a week or more.  

[flintstone mop]

Sorry, Bear, that we keep skipping over the pipes, but they would work FB if there wasn't so much weight involvedand Tim's situation.
Tim, remember the huge steel wheels that are attached to Jay's Dolley? I sent a pic of the dolly. Overbuilt, and would raise Ray too high. We gotta install the wheels under Ray in the well area I keep talking about. I don't know how deep it is. THat would determine how high Ray would stand after the install.
Another way to explain "the well" area. There must be a space of possibly 6-7 inches under the box. I KNOW that the bottom where the iron is bolted to is NOT at floor level. There must be a space of a certain depth to be able to mount these steel wheels from Jay's dolley. Do you have the pics Tim?

Phred

[Jeff W9GY]

Derb, YGM

Hope others can spare a few bucks into ur paypal acct.

GL with Ray  73 Jeff

[N3DRB The Derb]

tnx Jeff 

[N3DRB The Derb]

heres the pix -  some analysis required.

I dont like that iron in the upper right, it looks like there's no space to have anything on that corner sticking up from the bottom.

The other option is to build a sled of sorts and mount ball transfer units on the sled like this:



they used a sheet of 3/4" plywood and mounted 10 250# ball transfers under it.  I have 30 75# ball transfers
in the garage.  



as you can see the transmitter is not raised up much off the floor at all using the sled/ball transfer idea.

[W2INR]

I have sat here and watched this thread go on and on and on and on and on. I really can not believe it has taken so many people so much time to get nothing done!!! It's a damn transmitter,take the iron and tubes out, lay it on it's side, roll it on pipe, put it on the truck on it's side (it will be more stable), do the reverse on the other side of the trip and  put the dolly under it.

Jay and I moved that transmitter twice in the same day doing just what I stated above. It took less than 1 hour both sides of the trip and it did not require a thread on this forum to make it happen.(It did require a vacuum at Jays). We had four people at Mike ZE;s house and five people at Jays. There are no marks on the cabinet from rolling it on it's side with gas pipe.

I can't wait for the " I getting ready to fire Ray thread."

Unfortunately, there are some that feel that the forum "can be", "should be" a stage for their personal blogging. This is not  blogging site.

Just my two frustrated cents

G

[ka3zlr]

All in the Family..

73

Jack.

[WBear2GCR]

Ya, Mr. T. D. BIGELOW... you can find appropriate casters, but they are expensive and usually tall...and Derb's in a hurry!

I'm trying to help The Black James Bond get this thing OUT of the place it is now and at least to his QTH. The pipe method is cheap, fast, reliable and safe. 'Nuff said.

I am saying not a thing about what Derb needs to do with the unit once at his QTH.

If it was my rig, I'd get it there, have it up on blocks, and THEN get something made to go under it with the appropriate casters, IF that is what one wants. Probably a heavy angle iron affair... but YMMV. I'd not attempt to put casters under the existing bottom... various reasons.

Me? I'd never ever put a big rig against a wall where I could not get at the back side for servicing. You can do as you wish.

I think I said that I moved my 1500lb+ milling machine solo... is that heavy enough?

Not quite sure what is causing the somewhat contentious tone??

                     _-_-bear