Buying a 75A4

[K4ELO]

I'm not a Collins collector, but I would really like to own a 75A4.
What I'm looking for is advice on buying one.  Like best serial number range, who may have restored it, reasonable price range, where to look for one, what to evaluate when you find one, etc..
I would like to end up with a good one and want to make sure I don't make an expensive mistake.

I'm also thinking of an Ht-32B to go with it.  Any advice on that also appreciated.
Thanks for any advice offered.

73
Wayne
K4ELO

[KC4VWU]

Wayne,
             If you'll do a search for Collins Collectors Association, you'll find quite a bit of the info you're looking for. I can't say firsthand, because I've never owned an 'A4, but many here have commented in the past that while they seem to be the ultimate, they tend to be somewhat of a let down. I do have an 'A2 and love the stability over other rx's; and at a quarter of the cost of an 'A4. Nicest sounding rx for AM I have is a NC-125 with the Select-O-Jet feature.

73, Phil 

[n2bc]

The CCA pages are pretty good.   It's hard to tell sight unseen if you will get a "good one".  Serial numbers above 5000 are the most desireable.

For restorations, Howard Mills W3HM is the king.  No clue about $$ though.   The A4 is not particularly difficult to work on.

Phil is correct about the "let down" factor if you are comparing an A4 to todays receivers.  Back in the late 50s, for SSB they were state of the art.   Also not a particularly good AM receiver - they were designed for SSB & a wide mech filter will set you back some $$ and will still sound rather tight due to the audio chain.

What to look for:  There are tons of mods, seems lots of people thought they could design a better RX than Collins.  Some of the mods are quite drastic, some were installed with a butcher knife or sawz-all. Be careful.

Good Luck!   73, Bill   N2BC

[K4ELO]

Thanks for the advice folks.  I'm not expecting superior performance.  It's just pure nostalgia.  Back when I was a teenage ham, around early 1960s, it was the cat's meow and my dx elmer owned one, so ...

I'll check out the CCA.

[w3jn]

Most seem to have only the 3.1KC filter which will drive you nuts for AM.  Get one with at least a 6 KC filter.  Some have modified R-390 4 or 8 KHz filters in 'em, unless you're a purist I understand they work fine.  Make sure the filters are good; just about anything else in the radio can be repaired.

[ke7trp]

If you buy one with the 3.1 filter, cant you put the HiFi am filter in that is sold in ER mag and on ebay?  Not sure if it will plug in the A4 or not.  I never looked in mine to check.

C

[w3jn]

Yeah, you can.  The A4 has positions for 3 filters.  By all means keep the 3.1 for SSB and battle-mode condx.

[KM1H]

At one time I had a pair of 75A4's used with a CE-100V and 200V, the 100V gives you full DSB AM.

The A4 certainly has many shortcomings and there were several factory revision bulletins issued. Once done the serial # means nothing except to the snob collector. There is also a large list of other mods in the magazines, some good and some poor.

I modified the heck out of one of mine in 1965 and that is the one Ive kept and still use as a battle conditions CW radio slaved to a TS-940. I have several other Collins and other brands to use on AM.

Except for the PTO its an easy radio to work on and the HM name costs more than it is worth IMO unless you want to join the snobs and have a museum piece.

Carl
KM1H

[K5UJ]

Hi Wayne,  If it is just for nostalgia and AM/CW (you have something else for SSB) and it has to be the Collins and the A Line, I'd advise saving some money and getting an A2 or A3.  They cover 160 m.  They are also made with the chassis rack mountable so the cabinet is a small "rack" cabinet.  Easy to pull the front panel/chassis out and get to everything, well, almost everything.  You can get one of these for roughly $1000 less than an A4.  I'm a complete moron when it comes to the inner workings of receivers--I am trying to understand transmitting at this point but last year I was hot for Collins--the whole thing with the black wrinkle, glowing filaments (btw run whatever rx you get at 115 v.), the dials, the tube audio sound....so I bought an A3 from a ham in Indianapolis.  My mom has passed away about 9 months earlier and I was no longer taking care of her and so I had more time and money than I had had in a few years.  I decided to live a little so I shipped mine off to W3HM.  True, he wasn't cheap, but in my opinion, if you are planning on keeping your A line rig for the rest of your life and want one really good Collins then it's worth it.   When I looked at all the stuff he did I decided the fee was quite reasonable.

One thing I don't think you'll ever get out of a stock Collins A line rx is good loud AM audio.  I had to pull the single ended AF amp tube and tap the AF pot wiper on mine with a 0.1 uF cap and run that out to an outboard p.p. tube AF amp.  That made all the difference in the world.  Audio quality rivals what you get with a modern rx now on AM, however I should add that a lot of that has to do also with Howard adding a homebrew 10 Kc filter and turning the single diode envelope detector into a product detector by using the second diode in the tube and oscillator signal from one of the BFO grids.

Rob

[K4ELO]

Thanks for the tips.  I was thinking of using it on cw and ssb for casual operating.  But not really for the performance, my current rigs are Drake 4B twins and a Flex 5000A.

I'll do some research on the A3.

[K5UJ]

Thanks for the tips.  I was thinking of using it on cw and ssb for casual operating.  But not really for the performance, my current rigs are Drake 4B twins and a Flex 5000A.

I'll do some research on the A3.

Okay Wayne; I did not know you were not interested in AM at all.  In that case the A3 will be very disappointing.  It is not a SSB rx.  (okay it can in theory demodulate SSB using the BFO and/or some artful positioning of the center of the 3 KHz mech. filter but it is not fun at all)  I would not even consider the A line.   I'd go with some S line rx or even what is now becoming "vintage" Ten Tec, the early Triton transievers or the Corsair II.   These are single conversion s.s. rigs with PTOs, no microprocessor noise, full QSK, and for stock analog vintage solid state, very good audio.  The Tritons had a 2.7 KHz IF with not extremely sharp skirts.  I had one once in my salad days and failed to appreciate what I had.  Siimple to operate, beautiful tx and rx audio  with a banana mic...this was before Ten Tec started making "serious competition" rigs (translation:  cell phone audio).   

Personally, I don't really get "vintage" and "single side band" in the same sentence -- to me it is an oxymoron but that's just me, hi hi.

73

Rob

[K5UJ]

Correction:  The Ten Tec Corsair II has two IFs (FWIW)

[K4ELO]

Yeah Rob, I have had some Ten-Tec experience, but mostly the newer stuff, Omni VI. Omni VII, Argonaut, and Orion II.  Nice cw rigs.  Maybe I'll have to get another one some day, just for cw.  Maybe an Orion III
Probably shouldn't have sold my Omni VII.  That is a very nice rig except for the display.

Maybe I'm just dreaming about the A4.  Won't fit in my current shack which is a shared hobby room with the xyl.  We are thinking of a new house - then lots of room.  That would be a good excuse.  Honey, we need a bigger house so I can get more ham gear.  To be honest, she never complains about what I spend on radios - perfect xyl!

Haven't run AM for many years, but I know some of the Flex operators do.  I have listened to AM on it and it sounds ok to me, but I have oldtimer ears!

[KC4VWU]

I didn't mean to put a damper on your 'A4 dream by any means. I just wanted to add that there are options, but if you're primarily wanting an old classic for SSB and CW, the 'A4 may be the best option afterall. Rob is very right about the Tritons, they are extremely easy on the ears; no internally generated processor or white noise. About the only thing I had to do to mine was a PTO rebuild which is an easy 2 hour job. I had three and sold them all since I went headfirst into the AM thing, but now I wish I had kept at least one.

Now I understand why you mentioned teaming it up with a HT-32B, which would be an O.K. tx for AM, but really be sweet for sideband.

Phil

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Wayne, I'd say the A-4 is one of the overall best tube receivers of the period. Its biggest strength to me along with stability is its ability to weed out the garbage in difficult conditions through use of the mechanical filters and passband tuning feature. And while the stock filters won't give you great AM audio, you can improve that a bit by adding the 9 kc filter listed in ER if you want to use it primarily for AM reception. In this case I'd do as 'JN suggested: put the 3.1 filter into slot 1 for 'battle mode' conditions, move the 6kc to slot 2 and add the 9 kc to slot 3. This will give you more flexibility (3.1 is the SSB filter) as well as reasonable audio for those nights when you can actually open the receiver up a bit.

The biggest drawback to the 75A-4 is some perceived 'collector' value that justifies an inflated price. While that may have been the case 10 years ago, it sure isn't now. Prices continue to drop, and the A-4 isn't at all rare. The most I ever paid for one was $500 a few years ago, and only because of its history. If you're thinking of plunking down $1000 - $1500 for one, do yourself a favor: buy a clean R-390 or A model for $400-$500, maybe a decent SP-200 or SX-28 with Push-Pull audio output for $200-$300, and pocket the rest of the money.

[K5UJ]

He said he doesn't want to listen to AM.  Okay, he said he wants to listen to SSB and CW which I take to mean he isn't interested in AM (sadly).  75A4s are still routinely going for over $1000.   

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Guess I read it a bit differently as an overall question, oops. Considering it was built mainly as a SSB receiver with CW and AM secondary, he should be happy with it. Not flawless by any means,

75A4s are still routinely going for over $1000.   

You must live in a wealthy area, Rob.    Just did a search of completed auctions on ebay where such things bring the highest prices, found a total of three in the last 2 weeks. 2 sold, one for $609 that was dirty inside with one filter, another with all three filters and the matching speaker in decent shape for $760. One was listed at $950 in 'excellent condition' with three filters but received no bids. Should've been a deal to the collectors or folks who think they're highly valuable.

Going by my experiences I could say they routinely go for $250-$500 but clearly others have bought or sold for more. Prices are down and dropping like a stone, so patience is the key here for someone who wants to pay less. Those people who bought old radios as 'investments' are starting to wake up.

[K5UJ]

Okay hmmm interesting.  Well, a few weeks ago someone had one at some hamfest in TX and wanted over $1400 for his.   But, maybe prices have dropped a lot since last summer for all I know.  That would be good.  But, I've read here and there from those much more knowledgeable than me, that Collins didn't get SSB right until sometime into the S line.  However he can always get the A4 and do the gazillion mods out there and it might be great.   I suggested a S line rx (I am so unfamiliar with the S line I don't even know a model no. to recommend--75S-3..is that a receiver?) because I thought it might work well right off.

Rob

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

That's true, Rob. The A-4 is a decent rig but surely not as good as something like the 75S-3B for example. As with any old rig, there are some shortcomings and improvements that can be made as Carl indicated. The question becomes - how much do you want to hack up the set trying to make it "better" or make it into something else, when it's easier to just buy a better rig? When Carl and others came up with mods for the A-4, it was still a front line receiver and not a 'collector' piece or historical rig. Similar to the Super Pros and other receivers that were chopped up in past decades.

I have two left, one that is stone-stock and one that was mildly hot-rodded by its former owner who happened to be one of the guys on the Manhattan Project. It works better than the stock version, but not enough to warrant the mods today. Still interesting as a piece of history.

[K4ELO]

Shoot, I think I just want a Collins again.  Had an S-Line back in the mid 60's.  The receiver wasn't too great, it was a 75S1.  The specs on the 75S3B look a lot better.  Lots lighter than the A4 too!
Decisions, decisions!

[KC4VWU]

Just a quick thought Wayne. If you have the HT-32B already, if it were me, I'd probably look around for a deal on a nice SX-115 to mate to it. I've seen a few of those go for way less than the 'A4.

Todd, a dealer around these parts recently had a couple 'A4's that were in "good" shape (minimun dings/chips needing cleanup, etc). I thought "Here's my chance!" When I inquired, the prices were hovering around the $1K mark. I thought to myself, "I'll just let them sit and the price will get a lot better." A month later, he took them to the Charlotte fest and sold them both. It was said that he got his price for them.

Now for the important question. Does that hot rodded Hammarlund glow in the dark ... even with the power switch OFF?

Phil

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Now for the important question. Does that hot rodded Hammarlund glow in the dark ... even with the power switch OFF?

Phil

Nope Phil, the A-4 and SPs only glow when the AC is applied. The R-390 and A are another story though, with their glow-in-the-dark meters.    Doc's A-4 is one of my front line receivers when the station is online, the passband tuning and mechanical filters just can't be beat in tough conditions.

Your story of the dealer with the A-4s is typical. Can't remember where we saw one recently but it was priced at $1400 and the guy took it home with him. So often people see a piece of gear for sale at a high price and later it's gone, but who knows what the selling price ended up being? I always figure the stuff that is priced well is either gone before I see it, or gone as soon as I see it. Exceptional examples still pull down the big prices.

Last fall at NEAR-Fest a fellow was selling a bunch of nice gear including a decent 32V and 75A receiver that were priced reasonably, but not low enough as they sat there for a while. Later they were gone, turns out Carl KM1H got them for considerably less.

The amusing thing to me is the folks I've known over the years who rave that ebay is the determining factor in market price, while I contend it's more of a high-water mark due to its larger audience. When prices are high, it's the source. As prices there have continued to drop, suddenly ebay is no longer the big factor it was and it reverts to 'I sold mine to a collector for $5K' or such. Anything to keep the prices inflated to match egos, I suppose.

Wayne, you can't go wrong with whatever receiver you decide on if it's something you like, always wanted, and are happy with the deal you get. The SX-115 is indeed a nice receiver, only one sideband on AM but great on SSB. They've come down in price a lot too.

[w3jn]

I paid a hunnert bux for a decent 75A2 at the last NEARFest I went to. 

The 75A4 is an outstanding $500 receiver.  It's a really bad $1400 receiver.

[K5UJ]

I have a theory about the eBay prices.   The guys who pay $600 for a Ranger and so on meet two criteria:  1.  They obviously have a lot of money to blow.  2.  They live in places like Hawaii or remote New Mexico and such, and are hundreds and hundreds of miles or more from the nearest hamfest which is mediocre at best, and are unable to travel or don't want to.  But they want a certain boatanchor, and are willing to pay a lot to have it set down at their door.

[KC4VWU]

I think you're pretty much right on the money Rob. I kinda compare it to muscle cars. Back when I was a teenager, there were a few that commanded top dollar, although still fairly affordable for the more fortunate; then there were a bazillion that could be bought even on minimum wage pay. Now, don't even expect to find a 4 door sedan version for any reasonable price. I'm sure quite a few have been scrapped since those days also, which makes available numbers quite a bit lower. That is the reason why I'm always hard pressed to even consider parting out ANY BA equipment, unless it is really wasted. One day, the same will happen to our hobby. There will be those who want an old rx or somthing so badly, they'll spend a whole week's pay for an S-38 and erect a shrine in their living room for it.

Todd, the reason why I asked about the glow in the dark Super Pro was that if one of the Manhattan Project engineers owned it, maybe it was supercharged with a little enriched uranium. That is an intersting background on that rx though. I have several Hammarlunds and have had quite a many others, but never had the pleasure to own a SP. Hopefully, maybe someday!

BTW, I picked up (what I think) is a pretty interesting rx the other day at Spartanburg. While I was there, I met Chuck Teeters, W4MEW, and got a Wilcox F-3 from him. He wrote an article on it for ER, number 218, July 2007. I Plan to refinish it the best I can and have been juggling around a few ideas for mods; non-destructive of course. Really cool background info on that one.

Phil