ElectroVoice RE-20 vs: Behringer B1 Microphones for hi-fi AM use?

[K1JJ]

I was in a QSO today where one of the guys who had both mics thought his B1 sounded better than his RE-20. He thought the bottom end was better on the B1 and it was less prone to magnetic pickup.

I have only the RE-20 and notice the mic will not pick up hand waving in front of the mike and is sensitive to transformer hum.  The B1 will respond to these extreme lows as demonstrated to me.  Of course handwaving isn't used on the air for communication except maybe for sign-language...

The cost between the two is big, like $600 vs: < $90 new for the B1.  At that price I might try one.

Anyone have similar experiences or strong opinions either way?

Bottom line is it appears the B1 is an excellent mike for the money.

T

[W1GFH]

Hey Tom, a lot of people have had good luck with the MXL990 that's sale priced at $50. It ain't a Neumann, but you get a decent condenser at a bargain price, check it out.

http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&source=hp&q=mxl+990&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=awCHS_2MMsHPlwfdgK01&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCsQrQQwAA

[W1QWT]

I was using a Heil Goldline but a few people said it didn't sound like me.
So for XMAS I got a Behringer STUDIO CONDENSER MICROPHONE C-1 and a Minimic MIC800
Ultra-Compact Microphone Modeling Preamp with built in phantom power supply for the Mic.
Got them through Amazon for really good prices. Mic was $30 something dollars and the preamp was
$40 something dollars.
The preamp has a VU meter for more swinging monkeys and one of the selectable modeling positions
is:"Authentic VTC Tube Modeling technology creates the warmth of vacuum tubes" whatever that means.
Anyways the people who had negative comments about my Heil now say I sound better however one says I sound the
same? Bottom line is that I am satisfied especially  for the price. The system is very sensitive and picks up everything.
The lows are there but the preamp has a "Dedicated Low Cut filter eliminates unwanted noise, e.g. floor rumble"
The preamp has a input gain control and an output level control.

Regards
Q, W1QWT
 

[W2INR]

T

RE -20  Cardioid,  Dynamic mike,  designed for the broadcast environment

B-1  Cardioid,  Condenser mike,   Designed for the recording environment, susceptible to RF.

RE-20 , in production for over 40 years, maintains its value, Broadcast standard to this day. Designed for the broadcast industry and sound reinforcement.

B-1,  Been around a few years, the capsule is known to fail in time. I believe there were a couple guys from the northeast that had failures over time. I think Bill IFR had two different condenser mics that failed in time. Speaking of capsule the B1 uses the same capsule that Marshall, MXL 99, and a few others use. They sound great and like most condensers there are most effective in a recording environment.

Most will never be able to tell the difference and the extreme lows and highs a condenser will produce will never reproduce on the other side in most cases.

Dollar for dollar --   EV

Just my two cents.

G

[K5WLF]

From my experience working recording studios and live sound, Shure, E-V or Audio-Technica. A-T has some excellent mics for the money. Shure and E-V have been around since dinosaurs roamed the earth and, with the exception of the ribbon mics, will take any abuse you can throw at them and sound good doing it. You really can't go wrong with any of the three. Remember that most dynamic mics have a pronounced 'proximity efffect', wherein the closer you work them, the bassier they sound.

73,
ldb
K5WLF

[KX5JT]

I love my MXL-990.  It has to be the best bang for the buck in a Hi-Fi Ham station mic.  50 bucks with a shockmount and case.  Large diaphram condensor.  Sensitive FET.  You do need a preamp and phantom 48 volts.  I never had a problem with RF in the mic. 

[K5UJ]

I just do not get the infatuation some AMers have with condenser mics.   In all my years I have never seen a condenser in a broadcast AM station.  W2INR is 100% correct.

Why run a mic that will pickup every sound, every low frequency rumble (big problem for AM tube rigs), make your shack live unless you have stuff like foam on the walls....I can always tell a guy is running a condenser--his plosives make him painful to copy.  To avoid that and pickup of any blower sound you have to employ ridiculously elaborate pop screens, a noise gate...you have to roll off the low frequencies at around 100 hz if you want to be intelligible...or you can just get a relatively cheap Shure SM58 and pop sock and a lot of this goes away and trust me, no one will know the difference on ham AM.  The only thing is you have to get right up on the mic--you can't sit back 2 feet away from it and yack.  Only places I see condensers (besides ham shacks) is NPR and recording studios. 

Rob   

[WD8BIL]

You've heard 'em both at from my station Tom. I'm usually on the MXL990. But I have used the B1 and the Shure Pro-log (hi Z SM58).

Huzman's recordings tell they all can be made to sound very good. With the processing equipment around today you can probably make a wet noodle sound good.

For HAM use (in my finacial situation) the 990 and B1 are unbeatable.

[KX5JT]

Quoting Rob ..

Why run a mic that will pickup every sound, every low frequency rumble (big problem for AM tube rigs), make your shack live unless you have stuff like foam on the walls....I can always tell a guy is running a condenser--his plosives make him painful to copy.

Gee Rob, that's not necessarily true.  Expanders sure help.  I think D-104's pick up WAY more ambient sounds and dogs barking, blowers blowing, wives calling, operaters farting, crickets chirping, traffic moving, planes flying, chairs squeaking...... etc etc.... than my MXL-990.  *shrug*  

[KL7OF]

I have been using a B-1 for 5 years and with a behringer vx 2000 on a Gates tx that is "open frame" with no sheilding....No RF problems ever....

[K5UJ]

Sorry John--my severity is due partly to having been on the receiving end of a barrage of distorted breath blasts from condensers.  But I'll admit that part of the reason dynamics are used in broadcasting is their physical ruggedness in the hands of talent.  Say, here's a question:   It seems that with the sensitivity of a condenser, the audio from one is going to be more volatile.     How do you prevent unexpected modulation over 100% downward unless you use a fast broadcast limiter?   Just wondering.  Maybe this isn't the problem I think it is.  I know a lot of the ESSB guys use condensers but modulation limiting is not something they have to be concerned with.

73

Rob

[KX5JT]

Hey Rob, No problem.  I do hear those pops and explosions from some guys running condenser mics.  I had a pop filter because it was offered as a bonus with the mic during one sale run on it from musiciansfriend.com .  I found it way too big and unwieldy especially since I have as part of my station, my computer monitor.  It was simply in the way.  So I got a huge foam windscreen instead.  The ART tube amp studio also has a feature called OPL. "Output Protection Limiter" I'm sure it's pretty basic but it helps.  Mostly I watch the scope and it doesn't take long to really get a feel for the distance from the mic.  I have monitored myself through the receiver headphones and usually do this unless I'm just listening to a QSO or I have someone in the shack that I am demonstrating my station too.  It's not rocket science really.  The Behringer processor has a de-esser that does help a bit too.

I'm certainly no audio engineer but I know what sounds good to me!  Early one morning on 3.880 AM, Bob Heil, K9EID said my audio sounded great.  That's good enough for me!

John

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Behringer C1 - $40. You could buy ten for the price of one Rotten Eggs 20 or 27.

[W3RSW]

  I think D-104's pick up WAY more ambient sounds and dogs barking, blowers blowing, wives calling, operaters farting, crickets chirping, traffic moving, planes flying, chairs squeaking...... etc etc.... than my MXL-990.  *shrug* 

I think that's half the fun of ham AM.  I can hear Astubula Bill walking across the room, making comments, adjusting stuff, dogs barking in background, kitties mewing for milk..

....or Frank's Carol in the background making appropriate comments or "Hi's"...

...or ZRF's moustach raking across the PTT line 

I guess most of you know that I run a D104 into a 15 meg load MPF-102 source follower into either the de-yellowfied 32V or into a PA amp with 5 band EQ 'backwards' AF output into the 572B's for the 813 rig,  so I'm no audiophile by any stretch, but sure have fun listening to y'all.

The assymetrical pick of the crystal mike, coupled with my assymetrical voice really look good on a scope when the plate leads are swapped properly. 

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Based on what I see at hamfest, many hams are very assymetrical!   

[W3RSW]

we try..

"uh, thank yuh,
thank yun very much."

best bass voice I ever heard was from a badassymetircal.

you can tell from my voice how skinny I am. (comparitively speaking, urk )

[W7TFO]

FWIW:

RE20=US made
Behringer=Chinese made

Keep some jobs & $$ at home.

dg

[W2INR]

I just do not get the infatuation some AMers have with condenser mics.  

As with most hams the answer is --  they are cheap  .

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Heh. We aren't broadcasters. Comparing a ham station to a broadcast station is not valid.

[flintstone mop]

I just do not get the infatuation some AMers have with condenser mics.   In all my years I have never seen a condenser in a broadcast AM station.  W2INR is 100% correct.

Why run a mic that will pickup every sound, every low frequency rumble (big problem for AM tube rigs), make your shack live unless you have stuff like foam on the walls....I can always tell a guy is running a condenser--his plosives make him painful to copy.  To avoid that and pickup of any blower sound you have to employ ridiculously elaborate pop screens, a noise gate...you have to roll off the low frequencies at around 100 hz if you want to be intelligible...or you can just get a relatively cheap Shure SM58 and pop sock and a lot of this goes away and trust me, no one will know the difference on ham AM.  The only thing is you have to get right up on the mic--you can't sit back 2 feet away from it and yack.  Only places I see condensers (besides ham shacks) is NPR and recording studios. 

Rob   

WAAAAIT a minute!!!!!!!! Folks like STEVE 'QIX, thrive on 10 cycle audio floating around the shack and muddulating the carrier.
And Glen Beck and his $3000 microphonium??? I bet it isn't even potted up!!!!
Phred

[K1JJ]

Behringer C1 - $40. You could buy ten for the price of one Rotten Eggs 20 or 27.

Wealthy Rotten Egg owners are people too, Steve...  


OK, that settles it. I'm gonna stay with my RE-20.

What started this is I might build up a new class E rig as a girlfriend for Fabio. I noticed QIX had 10hz audio in the shack (as Fred said) and figured I might as well get ready with an appropriate mike. Fabio doesn't pass 10hz very well without having severe gas problems nor does the RE-20 do 10hz..

Thanks much for the varied info and opinions. The fine operational distinctions between a condensor and dynamic mike are good to know.

T

[WD8BIL]

G said:

As with most hams the answer is --  they are cheap  .

EXACTELY! And they work. (by MY definition (which is the only one that matters in my shack) "of work")

Now when my ship comes in and I can afford to indulge I most definately will migrate to the BETTER stuff. AND.... it is better ..... no doubt. But for a hobby at this point in my life; $49.95 beats $600 or XYL beats OM!

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Wealthy Rotten Egg owners are people too, Steve...  


OK, that settles it. I'm gonna stay with my RE-20.

Well, ya don't gotta be so SMUG about it.  

I'm not so sure it's as much about being cheap as it is about getting the best bang for the bux. The BBC show Top Gear reviews different high performance cars and compares them for price vs. performance. Quite often you can get great performance for a lot less money if 10 more HP and brand name recognition isn't the most important thing to you. I know a few folks running the B1 who financially could buy any mic they want. And they sound fine, you'd be hard-pressed to tell any difference in a side-by-side.

There's also the other extreme where someone buys the RE-20, a bunch of outboard distortion processing gear, and adds a bunch of excess bass that their voice doesn't have naturally, all in some attempt to sound like Don Pardo or such.

So you've got both extremes - the cheapwits who think everything is worthless (unless they're using or selling it) and the braggarts who think owning the best makes up for the rest. And the majority of users fall somewhere between, with perfectly acceptable audio, regardless of which mic they're using.  With your location and aerial system Tom, you'd sound good on a soup can.

$49.95 beats $600 or XYL beats OM!

LOL!!! I LIKE that phrase, Buddly!!  

[N3DRB The Derb]

that stuff is all crap. This is teh gold standard right here. dont even need a transmitter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqZQmS8KeLM

[K1JJ]

that stuff is all crap. This is teh gold standard right here. dont even need a transmitter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqZQmS8KeLM

YEAH only $14.88!

MR. Microphone II includes an FM radio. I say connect the FM radio's speaker output to the TX audio input.   Derb, you be walking and talking in no time, caw mawn!


T