Heavy Metal Bedlam

[Pete, WA2CWA]

That is due I think to the collective AMer mentality, which I characterize as being collaborative, social, collegial, and team-spirited.  

All of these descriptors can fit the typical contester and multi-op contesting stations.

The loner ego-maniac personality who wants to hide away and build a huge station-bomb and score all the points to be the king of the band doesn't seem to fit in the AM community.

According to Steve's proposed flyer, someone has to be Number 1. Whether or not you want to be Number 1 is your call. Being competitive in a ham radio activity is not a bad thing. Hams make the extra effort for better rigs, better antennas, improved skills at pulling out the weak signals, etc.

[WA3VJB]

My opinion is that calling this a "contest" sells it short.

A "contest" tells me it is all about the points, and that it is a competition.

With existing contests on SSB, bystanders have to suffer through the contest mentality of crazed shouting into the radio and the disregard of anyone nearby. This is why contests generate such resentment.

SO now here come the AMers, with a contest? Rapid contacts do not encourage roundtables, so more slots on the dial will be needed for each competitor seeking consecutive contacts. The increased presence means a greater chance of irritating bystanders on SSB, some of whom already hate contests within their own mode.

We may also lose some AMers who aren't satisfied with contest-style contacts AND hate the disruption "contests" typically cause.

But alright, perhaps there's room for a competitive element, a points system as suggested, as long as there is also a balanced emphasis on relaxed, prolonged conversation and discussion enjoying AM.

I don't know how to "award" such an emphasis, beyond it being one of the strongest attractions of being on AM.

Last year in the HMR I spent about 6 hours on 40m and 80m, not interested in seeing how many stations I could work, but spending time catching up with people who were prompted to get on the air in a scheduled, anticipated "event." 

I didn't "score" very well, but I sure had a good time.

I agree with Rob. "Contest" and "AM" don't seem to fit.

The loner ego-maniac personality who wants to hide away and build a huge station-bomb and score all the points to be the king of the band doesn't seem to fit in the AM community.

Of course, then there's the irony; AM'ers who traditionally  bitched about contesters and contesting, now wanting to have an actual contest.

[W1RKW]

According to Steve's proposed flyer, someone has to be Number 1. Whether or not you want to be Number 1 is your call. Being competitive in a ham radio activity is not a bad thing. Hams make the extra effort for better rigs, better antennas, improved skills at pulling out the weak signals, etc.

Why not put it to a vote or judgment rather than a numbers thing. Keep it informal and fun.

[K1JJ]

"I may even do everything in .CSV, and write some software to cross-check logs for some spot verification."


If you're going to work with computer logs, then that's a great idea.  

I often hear the big contesters working very hard to make sure they get the exchanges accurately - cuz they know the logs are spot cross-checked.

"AMfone Festival"  is a good suggestion.    

Bear in mind that there can be several types of events.  There can be an "AMfone Sprint"  - This is a three hour contest type event for a quick dose of fun.  There can be an "AMfone Festival"  that lasts the weekend and exchanges information about each rig, ragchewing, etc.      Both casual and contesting can also be combined into one event.  No need to limit ourselves.

Steve, I like your rules write-up. Looks FB to me so far.

Don:  Yes, doing whatever it takes to make our presence known before opening up on a frequency is fine. We would want the contest aspect to be courteous and leave a good impression to the outside operators. My intention was to make the AM event stand apart from the usual bedlam of ssb corntesting.

One last thing:  Make the information exchange simple enough so that any outsider can listen to few sample contacts, put their ricebox mode switch on AM and join in. Most contests are this way - being able to join in on the fly without having to look up the rules, etc.

T  

[W2VW]

Can we add an award for most blower noise?

[KF1Z]

Steve I take exception to one of your ad-hoc prizes. I think it was item b " the most clip leads"    ? I think that leans in your direction  a little ??!!! I love it.




G

\
Yeah, But I'd win on item "C"... most hum and FM !!..   

[KF1Z]

A weekend long "AM QSO Party"  sounds good................



BTW.... time to start a new thread on this topic, don't ya think?
 

[K1JJ]

Can we add an award for most blower noise?

 

How about for the strangest rig name?


On the subject of AM corntesting:  I think there are many AMers out there who hate OB roundtables. Personally, I like both OB roundtables AND short contacts. Mix it up.

The evidence is when an event like HM takes place and many stations never heard before come out of the woodwork - you hear many making short contacts.  Especially on 75M there are hordes of east coast stations who are calling for western stations and vice versa. The contacts last only a minute or two and they move on. There is plenty of time to rag chew and BS - in fact that's all we do most of the time.  The opportunity to give some of the weaker, more modest stations a chance to work long distance on AM is what makes short contacts important to an event, as a filler. Call it contesting or short contacting, whatever - it adds spice to AM life vs: staying keyed up for 5 minutes while others are sitting around looking for a chance to get in.  Makes it fair for all stations to participate instead of just the biggest mawls.

T

[N3DRB The Derb]

you know, "regular" hams have contests.    They like contesting. I was a op on a multi multi using drake 4 stuff years ago. I think a dedicated AM mode only contest would be a great thing. There's no reason for AM to not be engaged in the wider spectrum of ham activity. Exposing the mode to hams with other primary interests is not a bad thing.  Simply organize the scoring so that :

A. using other modes besides full blown AM gets you nothing

B. rewards the use of homebrew and old buzzard store bought gear while not barring the use of modern gear for the " am curious"

I think anything that tends to get AM thought of as just another mode of operation thats OK FB if ya wanna do it in the minds of the broader spectrum of hams is a good thing. In political circles it's called outreach.

One other thing: if you're gonna call it a contest, make it a contest. Don't try to satisfy everyone. the contesters dont. The point is that we as AMer's
can do whatever anyone else in ham radio does, but we do it with AM.

[K9ACT]

A weekend long "AM QSO Party"  sounds good................



BTW.... time to start a new thread on this topic, don't ya think?
 

Yah!  and lets not forget who'se idea it was.

I get extra points for coming up with it,

Jack

[K5UJ]

Can we add an award for most blower noise?

I might have a chance at winning that prize 

I vote for calling it a festival or something other than a contest.   Air-Fest or Festival of the Air maybe.

[KF1Z]

Can we add an award for most blower noise?

I might have a chance at winning that prize 

Ooh... not me.

The only fans running here are the video card, and CPU fans!   

No fan or blower on the transmitter heatsink.


Actually, the only 'prize' I'm likely to win is "Excessive JN background noise" 

[Chuck...K1KW]

Hi folks,

After reading though this thread, here is what I observed with a few comments:

1) The goal is to encourage more AM activity. Always a good idea!
2) Lots of ham "groups" encourage operating activity in specific modes with contests.
3) Let's do a contest.
4) Let's write the rules for the "contest".

Hmmmm let's discuss the rules. There are many variables to take into account because of the many ways of operating AM, from military rigs, homebrew, riceboxes, BC transmitters, ect.  Required lengths for the contact time or information exchange rules put you into an operating/exchange box just like a contest.  

I always thought operating AM was a bit more free spirited than that.  Why copy the rest of hamdom's behaviour?

How about thinking of some non contest, non point generating activity that creates interest in AM among the non initiated and getting more AM operators on the air? Rig based nets (t-60), QRP based nets(K1JJ), Class E(QIX) P+M (Tim)... ect.

Just being ourselves on a daily basis and getting on the air often is probably better than a "contest".  Constant exposure by being on the air in non contest times is probably the best advertisement for AM.  Someone with a new shortwave radio is more likely to get interested in the AM'ers they hear daily than the yearly SSB contests they probably will never hear.

I shouldn't talk...I haven't been on AM or the radio in over a year or so. But I'll be back sometime...

Chuck  K1KW

[W1RKW]

As Chuck stated, "I always thought operating AM was a bit more free spirited than that."  

Keep it loose and go with it. Isn't that what HMR is supposed to be? With that in mind loosen the 250lb requirerment and drop it to 100lb instead. V2's, DX100's, Scratchy Apaches and a bunch more fit more into this mold. Include all AM'ers and potential AM'ers.

I can see this being an over crowding event where the AM window and a few of the other AM freq's get bottlenecked and there is spew over.  That being the case, it might behoove us to let the non-AM crowd know that we're coming and we're coming hard and to either give way or join the crowd for a short bit.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Very good points, Chuckles. From memory, I don't think a contest was ever what Bill had in mind when he came up with the first HMR. It was meant as a celebration of big tube gear like old broadcast, home brew, military and commercial transmitters as he said. In recent years (probably on this board) I remember Bill describing it as being more like a classic motorcycle meet. Which made me think, even if you took your old bike or car to a yearly meet, would that be it, or would you also take every other opportunity to get it out on the road and enjoy riding/driving it?

Within a few years there were complaints from some Class E ops, ricebox users, etc about the rules. The meaning of the event got lost in the perception to some that it was about scoring points and winning. Bill never excluded anyone from participating with whatever they wanted to use, so long as it was used on AM.

The arguing over points throughout the years reminded me of those little kids who need to get a treat whenever they go to the store. As you point out, the treat should be the freedom and opportunity we have to restore, build, use, and enjoy AM gear, whatever the preferred approach. I think the only 'award' should be a people's choice deal for best sounding, strongest, heard most, whatever. That makes everything simpler and removes the 'gotta WIN' 5-9 approach.

Much better idea is to have other events more events for AM operation. Have a Class E event where you have to be running Class E to win. Have contests as have been described here. Hopefully people will once again just get used to turning the rig on and operating without a specific date or time.

To make it easy to remember, why not have something like Friday Night is AM Night for those who need times and titles. No set frequency, easy to remember, just get on and operate. That should stir up more regular activity, maybe even bring back some of the old buzzard round tables as well as the fast break-in groups. After all, if you can break the habit of being on one or two set frequencies, there's no shortage of space. The bands should easily support many groups with varying protocols.

I shouldn't talk...I haven't been on AM or the radio in over a year or so. But I'll be back sometime...

I heard you on 40m AM back in the spring. So it hasn't been a year. Yet.  

[steve_qix]

There have been lots of very good and very useful comments about this!

I think we've come with something that might work pretty much for everyone....

1) If you want to "contest", you can - and the event will support this.

2) If you DON'T want to "contest", you can do that too, and the event will support THAT as well.   

In fact, I suggest adding a category - "Stations that show up in the most logs".  Operators that just operate, but don't necessarily want to "win" (and therefore may not even send in a log) are absolutely vital to the success of an event such as this.  They are part of the "glue" that holds such an event together.  The top 10 or 5 or some number should be recognized as such.   Electronic logs required (Excel or .CSV files) - I will write the necessary software to gather whatever information we need from the submitted data.

3) There is a lot of fun built into the event - and there will be operator suggested, "fun" awards many of which
have been suggested already.  These will be user-suggested, on a per-event basis, and most likely there will be some "standard" fun awards as well...

We need to pick a date !    Really, don't we want this in January or February when "coast to coast AM" is possible on 75 and 160 meters (and the static season has not yet begun in the Northern hemisphere)?

[K1JJ]

WA1QIX said:
"We need to pick a date !    Really, don't we want this in January or February when "coast to coast AM" is possible on 75 and 160 meters (and the static season has not yet begun in the Northern hemisphere)?"



Historically, March on 75M has the strongest and most consistent signals of the year. This is because the days are getting longer, winter skip is waning, but not quite into the summertime static.(esp at night)
It would give us almost three months for preparation -not too long to lose interest, but not too short for proper preparations.


BTW, as you suggested, I think a combination of several different operation styles is the perfect choice. Let the results tell us what to emphacize next time. This should be an experimental operation looking at turn-out numbers and operator feedback afterwards.

T

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Electronic logs required (Excel or .CSV files) - I will write the necessary software to gather whatever information we need from the submitted data.

Suggest using the standards for electronic logging, ADIF or Cabrillo.

[steve_qix]

Electronic logs required (Excel or .CSV files) - I will write the necessary software to gather whatever information we need from the submitted data.

Suggest using the standards for electronic logging, ADIF or Cabrillo.

Note: for anyone not familiar with databases, CSV stands for Comma Separated Values, and is an interchange standard which can be read by virtually all database type programs.

I can't speak with any authority about either of those (ADIF or Cabrillo), but if they can generate .CSV files, they could be used if an operator choose to do so.  Once in .CSV form, persuming the raw data is there, I can write the appropriate piece of software to gather whatever we might want.

I use Excel because it's easy and lots and lots of people have it, but any number of other applications that can create a CSV as output could be used, and there are many of them out there 

[W2VW]

Electronic logs required (Excel or .CSV files) - I will write the necessary software to gather whatever information we need from the submitted data.

Suggest using the standards for electronic logging, ADIF or Cabrillo.

Cabrillo. Isn't that the new GMC SUV?

[steve_qix]

Possible dates?

13th of Feb - President's day weekend and a lot of people have it off - could be a good one.
27th of February (160 meter SSB contest also on - may or may not be a problem)
6th of March

I don't know how much activity the 160 meter SSB contest generates - honestly never noticed it in the past!!!

Or the March 6th date.  Beyond that, we seem to start getting into real stuff (like Valentine's day, major flea markets, etc.), and the band is definitely starting to close up by then.  I still like January or EARLY February.  I don't recall much coast to coast activity in later March, but maybe I'm just not remembering.

Besides, we need something to help stave off the Winter doldrums 

[K1JJ]

Whoops...  I read your comment as "We DON'T want Jan/Feb" rather than we do.

Well, then  March 6th is probably best. The Feb 27th 160M ssb corntest can be intense up above 1850 cuz they stay out of the CW portion.

BTW, because of the low sunspots, you will find March 20th still FB for coast to coast on 75M. It would not be that way at a solar peak. We are in a very unique time for lower band skip.

T

[Pete, WA2CWA]

The ARRL International DX contest starts Saturday evening, 3/6/10. Alternate low end frequency activity on 80 and 40 meters using AM probably will be next to impossible. Not sure how far up they creep on 160 meters. 

The President's Day weekend in February, according to the Contest Corral, shows the Classic Exchange (CX) phone contest is also that weekend. The listing also shows gathering frequencies for AM and SSB contacts. This is a boatanchor operating activity.

[N3DRB The Derb]

I think 13 Feb is the date of the Richmond VA Frostfest.

[KF1Z]

Electronic logs required (Excel or .CSV files) - I will write the necessary software to gather whatever information we need from the submitted data.

Suggest using the standards for electronic logging, ADIF or Cabrillo.

Note: for anyone not familiar with databases, CSV stands for Comma Separated Values, and is an interchange standard which can be read by virtually all database type programs.

I can't speak with any authority about either of those (ADIF or Cabrillo), but if they can generate .CSV files, they could be used if an operator choose to do so.  Once in .CSV form, persuming the raw data is there, I can write the appropriate piece of software to gather whatever we might want.

I use Excel because it's easy and lots and lots of people have it, but any number of other applications that can create a CSV as output could be used, and there are many of them out there 

I wouldn't worry about the logging software.... there are several FREE converter apps, that take ADIF and Cabrillo format logs, and will convert them to CSV, text, XLS.... just about anything you want to convert to and  from.

There's also some apps to dig through the filesand do log checking etc... those you probably have to pay for...