ebays great for parts...except when....

[N3DRB The Derb]

...the seller has no clue how to pack the stuff you got.

He's going to give me a 100% refund , but I'd much rather he had just packed it correctly. he tried to stuff it in a USPS flat rate box with no wrapping or foam or bubble wrap.   

It's a UTC S-44. Might be able to straighten it out but it will never be the same.

Also got my 3 813/257B sockets, thankfully not broken.

[W1RKW]

I bought a tube audio amp from some guy. I guess he had no clue about packing old gear.  The amp had a layout that was similar to McIntosh amps where the tubes are typically on an chassis with a cage that covers the tubes. 

This guy in his infinite wisdom packed the amp, tubes in sockets without the cage into a box with newspaper and only the least amount of newspaper. This guy must have lived in a town where the paper was only one section deep and used just enough sheets to fill the box, nothing more than that, why even bother with the paper.

The amp arrived here, all tubes smashed and chassis beat to crap. The good side is he took it back. I was without the shipping one-way so I lucked out.   A little brain power can go a long way.

[kc2ifr]

Derb,
I have been there about 3 times.............stuff got here smashed.
If the seller uses UPS and the item is either heavy or delicate UPS will smash it..........they can even break packing peanuts.....

Bill

[K3ZS]

I got a Globe Chief a few years ago.   It was packed in a box that it barely fit it and no packing at all.    It was shipped by the US Postal Service.    The tubes were in their sockets and it was delivered to my door with no special delivery.  No damage at all to any thing.   Might have been a fluke but I think they do a good job.

[WQ9E]

One of the funniest hamfest scenes I have witnessed was when an ebay buyer realized that the "vulture" zipping around purchasing future ebay fodder had previously sold him a "mint" KWM-2A with power supply.  When shipped, the KWM-2A and power supply were put in the same box complete with a few peanuts and traveled from the the bluegrass state to Iowa via UPS.  The end result was scrap metal and glass.  Ebay seller was leaving a cloud of dust as his SUV exited the flea market with an angry ham running after him.

Sometimes you do get lucky.  I got a large amp shipped from TX to IL that had almost no packing material inside but it made it with no damage.  Of course I have also gotten well packed items that were damaged in shipping.

[w8khk]

I got this big choke on eBay, it was shipped in a box with no padding.  When it arrived, the terminal posts were hanging out the side of the box.  Luckily, I was able to re-align and re-thread the bent post, and install a new porcelain insulator.  I suppose some of the other packages that were rammed by these terminal posts were not so fortunate!

[W1UJR]

This has been debated time and again, its like arguing about politics or religion.  

Bottom line, with UPS, FedEx, USPS, it is all a matter of packing, and time in transit.

Despite what you might hear, American business ship millions of packages per year via these services, with a very low incidence of damage. The secret comes down to two things, proper packing, and minimizing transit time.

If packed properly, unless it run over by a truck, or run into by a forklift, then a package it should survive the trip.
The key thing is duration, when I want gear intact, I follow the following rules.
Yes, I am a UPS and FexEx account ship center, but don't ship for the general public, just internal use.

1.) Never ship on Fridays, items sit in the warehouse or on trucks until the weekday comes, often out in the cold, often in poorly climate controlled locations.

2.) More time in transit, more chance of damage. If you really want it intact, ship it overnight, or at the worse, 2nd day air. A cross country trip, bouncing around in the back of a UPS van or truck will almost certainly loosen every screw in the rig, allow literally dozens of chances for your beloved item to get dropped, smashed, run over etc. If you love it, ship overnight.

3.) Remember, "Stupid People Rule The World." I tell my staff this maxim nearly every day, plan on the other fellow not doing his or her job. No matter how much effort you put into something, all it takes is one "stupid" person to not follow directions, and the best efforts are dashed. Plan on, and make every effort to avoid the "Stupid Factor". Some people simply can't read labels that say "Fragile", "Glass" or "This Side Up", so despite the best laid plans, plan on the stupid screwing up.

4.) Box within a box, costs more, but it is the best.

5.) Styrofoam peanuts are garbage. First, they are a royal pain to get off objects they come into contact with, next they are bad for the environment, finally, they compress and do little to cushion after a few hundred miles. Ever see how Icom/Kenwood/Yeasu pack their rigs, solid Styrofoam is best.

6.) Discover the magic of bubble wrap, it covers a multitude of sins. I pack the insides of sets with crumbled up newspaper, leaving the tubes in sockets, then wrap the unit with at 2-3" of bubble warp on all sides, like a big cocoon. Works wonders.

7.) Always label, and always insure. Label in big letters on all sides of the package "Glass", and insure the heck out of the package, insurance is cheap, and UPS treats "High Value" items very differently than a standard package. In fact, "High Value" items have a separate report sheet which the driver needs to scan and sign.

8.) Always pay for professional packing. Face it, far too many people are both lazy and cheap, and all too often will reuse packing material on hand. Ask for the item to be professionally packed, as per the above suggestions, say your prayers, ship overnight, and chances are the item will arrive in intact. I have this little formula that I've developed about packing costs. Not perfect, but is generally true, it costs about .75 cents to $1 per pound to properly pack items.

9.) It does not matter which shipper you pick, just keep in mind the "time in transit" rule, and chances are you'll pick UPS or FedEx. USPS is great for small items, books, etc. Try to file a claim with USPS for a high value item, see how long it takes to get paid.

10.) If at all possible, use the amateur radio Pony Express system. Find a fellow ham to transport it for you to another ham, etc. You get to meet more people, share some cold 807s, and best of all, save some dollars!  

[WA1GFZ]

UPS Sucks. I just bought a very well boxed power supply from CTR surplus. The box looked like it was dragged behind the truck with all corners punched in. I was lucky to have only minor bending of the chassis flanges.

[W7TFO]

Well, whaddua' expect?  UPS stands for 'United Parcel Smashers'.

Crap & brown are the same color, too.

[KF1Z]

Fed-ex is the sack..... they kick the crap out of packages, throw them out the truck, claim they can't find your house, then refuse to pay the insurance!

At least UPS, if you have them do the packing, will pay the insurance claim, 'almost' no questions asked. And it is CHEAPER than packing yourself.

No matter who you get to take your stuff from A to B... is likely, eventually, to do damage... Even the AM Pony express...


Out of several hundred packages I've shipped and recieved through UPS and the Post Office over the past 4 or 5 years, only ONE has gotten damaged, and ONE "lost in the mail".
In both cases, insurance claims were paid quickly.


Those that have had stuff broken, perhaps very hard to replace... I feel for ya'.

Fact is, if the moron on the other end can't use a little sense when packing, or won't pay to have the item proffesionally packed.... well, it's gonna be a crap shoot whether the item arrives in one, or a thousand pieces.

[N3DRB The Derb]

well, the guy gave me a 100% refund. I really wish he had packed it well. I'd rather had the undamaged transformer. 

[K5UJ]

I've heard FedEx is not bad if you go overnight Air.  All of the ground transport services bash stuff up if it isn't packed right.  FedEx Ground and FedEx Air are supposed to be entirely different in care given to freight.

>6.) Discover the magic of bubble wrap, it covers a multitude of sins. I pack the insides of sets with crumbled up newspaper, >leaving the tubes in sockets, then wrap the unit with at 2-3" of bubble warp on all sides, like a big cocoon. Works wonders.

This is the one point I disagree on.  I think bubble wrap alone isn't enough.  I had a Tek 465 shipped to me from Calif.  The moron packed the scope in bubble wrap without the shell cover over the front panel.  Naturally a few knobs like the trace time knob got bent and one of the concentric controls (trigger?) got busted.  This was back when only the shipper could file a damage claim with UPS.  I think they have changed that policy since then.  So back it went and the guy disappeared.  I soon found out what eBay does for people when they get cheated.  They offer to help out--for a price.  They make money off everyone good deals and bad.  Good luck with that.

Tubes should be pulled out, wrapped in foam rubber all the way around, snugly boxed, and tightly taped shut. 
73
Rob K5UJ

[K5UJ]

Oh yeah, and I agree on this:

>10.) If at all possible, use the amateur radio Pony Express system. Find a fellow ham to transport it for you to another ham, >etc. You get to meet more people, share some cold 807s, and best of all, save some dollars!

the best shipping company is the back seat of my car!   

Rob

[nq5t]

Some years ago, a gent who is a fairly well known and otherwise reputable reseller, sold me a Globe Champion 300.

This is the way it arrived -- used, beat up single wall cardboard box, peanuts, some newspaper, a plastic bag or two and old chunks of plastic just mixed in with the rest of the packing fluff.  The broken knob, a shattered toggle switch, cracked VFO dial cover, and several dents in the case were the least of the problems.  No packing inside the cabinet to hold the tubes in place, so of course several had become projectiles destroying themselves and both AX9909's.

All I can say is that with a lot of work, the radio plays like a "champ" :-)

Grant/NQ5T

[Ed/KB1HYS]

I  'ahem' used to work for Fedex, so I KNOW what happens to packages...

My rule of thumb is that you should be able to drop the package 4ft with no damage, because that is just ONE thing that is probably going to happen to it.

besides, if you just sold something for $300, spending $20 on two boxes, good packing foam, bubble wrap & a roll of the REALLy good packing tape is common sense.

freedom of Motion inside a package = DEATH to whats being shipped. pack it so it can't move freely but has a slight spring when pushed hard.

One additional thing that doesn't get mentioned. Putting the item inside a sturdy poly bag and taping is shut can save you a lot of trouble as some people ship liquids that leak, or packages get left in the weather and soaked!

[WQ9E]

One additional thing that doesn't get mentioned. Putting the item inside a sturdy poly bag and taping is shut can save you a lot of trouble as some people ship liquids that leak, or packages get left in the weather and soaked!

The plastic bag also saves having to remove peanuts and pieces thereof from inside the radio!  I really appreciate having gear sealed this way!

[W1UJR]

Good suggestion on the poly bags, those things do happen!

We should distill down all this knowledge into a "Boatanchor Shipping FAQ" for the board, would help many folks, and some a good part of American radio history.  

[w1vtp]

Don't get me started on this subject   I recently had a 30lb piece of electronic equipment that I wanted badly.  The idiot packed it in NEWSPAPER - single boxed.  That's worse kind if packing. The box looked like it went down 10 flights of stairs and over end.   Never had a piece beat up as badly as that one.

He did refund me 1/2 of the total price and I did get a "parts" piece of gear.  I have three other units from which to build 1 working unit.  SIGH

Al

[W1RKW]

My company shipped out a bunch of electronic components (over $400k worth) owned by the USN down to Newport News, VA.  Everything was supposedly packed properly by us then sent via FedEx down to the other shipyard in VA. Somewhere between CT and VA some of the contents came out of the container. What was remaining in the container arrived in VA but the where abouts of the other stuff was unknown, probably laying in the belly of an aircraft.  Anyway, I'm sure there will be a crap storm between the USN, my company and FedEx.  It should be an interesting fight between all 3 parties.

[W1AEX]

The secret comes down to two things, proper packing, and minimizing transit time.

Your list of 10 guidelines is excellent. Based upon my own interesting experiences, I would add just one:

11.) Avoid arranging shipments around holidays, especially the Christmas season. Expect long delays and many unfortunate "stalls" in shipping progress during holiday periods.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Anyway, I'm sure there will be a crap storm between the USN, my company and FedEx.  It should be an interesting fight between all 3 parties.

Which clearly illustrates a point made many times here and elsewhere: no one is immune, no shipping company is better than another. Some will recall my modulation transformer rewind that was shipped from Maine to VT, mounted on a board, double boxed, with sheet foam and other packing. Under 50 lbs, and FedEx still managed to treat it badly enough to break one of the cast iron frames. I've had tons (literally) of packages sent through UPS and USPS without any damage - including one that was sent from 6-Land to VT simply set in the box, no real packing around it. Yep - lucky. Others have experienced nightmares from the U-companies.

Ignoring the poor packing issue for a moment, these companies are in business to make a profit. They can't do that babysitting every package from point A to point B in case someone didn't pack it properly. Throughput is the name of the game, which means speed is essential. And every company has the few idiots who abuse a box because it's too heavy to suit them, or see just how far they can slide/throw/punt any package labeled 'Fragile'. You might as well put a bulls eye on the side. Unless it's truly brittle (glass, ceramic, or such), I simply pack it well and send it. Metal radios really aren't fragile. But Ed nailed it: if the item can wiggle in the box, it's an accident waiting to happen. Beyond foam-in-place, packing properly requires times and the ability to use different materials for a complete, secure job. When in doubt - ask the seller how he intends to pack it. Never assume. You just know that someone's already angling to be named Shipping Czar. 

As well, there are attitudes about packing materials, boxes, and handling that will show just how little someone really knows(evident when you open the box or read their thoughts on the matter). One example I can think of is the complaints about peanuts vs bubble wrap, one being superior, both being crap, etc. Far from being 'garbage', thousands of items ship daily using both without issue. The trick of course, is knowing how to utilize each properly, and not seeing any one material as being the silver bullet. Neither is suitable as the only material for boatanchors, but I've found both to be indispensible, particularly peanuts. Heavy items with sharp edges and pointy switches will pop bubble wrap fast. Peanuts will shift around and settle leaving gaps if not used with other materials like tightly-balled up newspaper. Unfortunately, these things take time to learn, so listening/reading carefully can alert you to a 'shipping newb', probably the last person's judgment you want to trust for your shipment. Ask for details.

Sorry to hear of your trashed shipments Derb & Al. Dealing with someone who doesn't have a clue about packing makes it that much worse. It's always a roll of the dice, and when it's your turn, no packing job in the world will matter. A forklift through the side, plane/truck crash, opened/stolen item (this happened to me last year) will catch up to anyone who does a lot of business by shipping.

[N0WVA]

You have to double box almost everything, and pack it tight around both boxes! Also critical items like large knobs should be taken off and a piece of styrofoam stuck on the shaft and taped in place. Put styrofoam bumpers around all dial glass where the weight doesnt end up resting on something other than the metal chassis.

[AF9J]

I avoid newspapers (unless they are packed very tightly), and styrofoam beans like the plague.  I don't care what people say about beans as packing material.  If things get jostled during shipping, and are heavy enough, they WILL shift in a bean filled box.  Do you want to take the chance that the radio will shift enough in it's box to literally wind up laying against one box side, with nothing to cushion it from blows, or keep it from moving around?   I didn't think so.  Besides, beans are a pain to get out of radio innards.

If at all possible, use solid sheets of styrofoam that hold the item tight, or even better yet, (if you have access to the equipment to do so - I do at work) foam bag it in place in the box.  Foam bagging will hold it VERY secure, and provide a means of energy absorption so the next time some dimwit decides to chuck the box into the truck (something which I saw a FedEx driver do at my last place of employment) because he's in a lousy mood, or is trying to up his throughput, shock absorption will help protect the contents from jarring.  Oh yeah, and tape the box closed bigtime!   As was mentioned, packing tightly newspaper or bubble wrap inside the radio, helps to hold tubes in place.  Plastic bagging it, also hleps keep dirt ant moisture that get in box, from getting tino the radio.  I think the best thing to do, is always pack as though the box and item are going to get caught up in WW3.

[N3DRB The Derb]

well, you guys just KNEW I was gonna do something about this. 

I literally could not sleep knowing I got had by a goofus.

So I got to work. refer to the 'before derb' photo and then the 'afta derb' photo. When I overspray that area with new matched color gray, you'll have to work hard to see the damage. 

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Nice work Derb! Once you paint the purty back on, it'll look like new. Nothing better than snatching victory from the jaws of defeat and destruction.

Dug out a 2007 pic of my mangled iron courtesy FedEx, followed by the finished (for now) shot after I got the frame welded, ground it down, primed, and back to WZ1M for reassembly. Still needs a final coat of machine gray but I was impatient to get it reinstalled.

Thinking about it again reminded me that Johnny Novice had a PLATE transformer for his big rig shipped by UPS right around the same time, from Kansas or Oklahoma or? and it arrived fine. So you just never know. But it always helps when the seller has some concept of how to pack and proper use of packing materials.

So now the big question: what's the ETA of another big Derb HB rig?