New U.S. Passport Requirement?

[k4kyv]

My wife's passport expires in a few days and mine expires at the end of this month.

This morning she was almost in a state of panic after checking some on-line internet sites for passport renewals and applications for new U.S. passports.

She brought up a number of commercial sites that offer a "passport renewal service". She told me that every one of these indicated that to take out a new passport or renew an existing one, you are required to supply documentation for your planned foreign travel, including copies of airline tickets and documentation of proposed itineraries.

I never heard of anything like this before. I thought any U.S. citizen was eligible to take out a U.S. passport any time they wish. If I wait until all the minute details of a trip are planned and tickets are purchased, there may not be enough time remaining for the passport to arrive before the date of departure. Or what if I pay hundreds of dollars for a non-refundable airline ticket and something unforeseen holds up my passport?

Now that a passport is required to enter the U.S. even from places like Canada and Mexico, what kind of documentation do I need to prove my intent to visit Canada? I could be planning a quick road trip to attend a hamfest or visit to a friend in Montréal next month, while planning a longer visit with family in UK two years from now, and want to get the passport to cover both trips. And I could change my mind about the visit to Canada before next month arrives.

If such an itinerary requirement really does exist, it looks to me like a new travel restriction has been quietly slipped in place to be imposed on all Americans, making it more difficult to travel outside the country.

I visited the U.S. State Dept web site and you can download a passport application in pdf form. There is a question that asks what countries you plan to visit and the length of the proposed visit, but nothing is mentioned about providing any mandatory documentation. As I recall, that question was on my first passport application that I submitted back in the mid 60's.

So I wonder if these commercial sites are similar to the ones that offer to renew your amateur licence for a $35 fee, even though you can download the form yourself and submit it to the FCC at no cost. Maybe this "documentation" requirement is designed to confuse the public to make it look like the application process is more complicated than it really is, to encourage people to employ their services.  Or someone could be looking for marketing information.

[Mike/W8BAC]

Easy Don, Settle Down, Those renewal sites/businesses make money expediting passport renewals and a business traveler or individual needing that service has to show why an expedited service is needed, i e no time to use the normal channels. If you wanted to use this service a simple (cancelable) internet travel itinerary is all you need.

If your not planning to travel soon but just want to renew, follow the renewal instructions and N/A the travel plans. I hope this puts your wife's fears at bay.

[ve6pg]

..as any tax payer, why would a fee make things go faster?...are you saying the passport people are on the take? speed things up, if you pay?.....sounds that way to me, and you accept this....?


 ..sk..

[k4kyv]

Those renewal sites/businesses make money expediting passport renewals and a business traveler or individual needing that service has to show why an expedited service is needed, i e no time to use the normal channels. If you wanted to use this service a simple (cancelable) internet travel itinerary is all you need.

That was my impression after I checked the State Dep't site.  But she had already done a google search for "passport renewal" and all those commercial sites popped up; she didn't even see the official gov't site.  I tried the same thing, and the real U.S. State Dep't site was indeed almost hidden, lost in the shuffle amongst all the extra-fee outfits.

And the State Dep't offers a wallet sized version good for travel to all those countries in this hemisphere that used not to require a passport.  Not sure if you can take out both a regular booklet and the wallet card version at the same time, but that would be convenient.  A lot better for boarding planes and all the other things you now have to "show photo ID" for, than a state driving licence would be.

My state DL doesn't even have my photo on it.

[ve6pg]

...don, there are very good reasons, fer ur dl not to have fotos....
   just look at ur avatar on this site....yikes..!...

..sk..

[N3DRB The Derb]

HEY! I took that picture!!!! 

[Jim, W5JO]

Don, I don't know how big Woodlawn is or where it is located, but in larger cities many passport offices are co-located with post offices.  They will direct you in the necessary requirements.

Check the yellow pages for Passport Offices near you.  You will pay a standard fee for the document.  If you want rush service, there is an additional fee.  All your need is the completed application along with 2 photos.  Applications may be available at your PO.

[Sam KS2AM]

..as any tax payer, why would a fee make things go faster?...are you saying the passport people are on the take? speed things up, if you pay?.....sounds that way to me, and you accept this....?
 ..sk..

You pay for the passport either way, but if you legitimately need expedited service you can pay Uncle Sam some extra $.

If you are in a really big hurry you can go to a passport agency and they have standing appointments on a daily basis with the local US passport office so both Uncle Sam and the agency get a share.

You get what you need without burdening other taxpayers unfairly, everyones happy and God Bless America.

[K9ACT]

When logic fails, "follow the money trail".

Like "daylight shopping time", you will find that it has nothing to do with security or saving the children.

Someone is buying all that irrelevant information from the passport service and is probably a greater source of revenue than selling you a passport.

js

[Bill, KD0HG]

One needs a document in order to leave the country?

Crazy.

[Jim, W5JO]

One needs a document in order to leave the country?

Crazy.

No just to get back in from Canada, Mexico and places that didn't require one before.  Every time you cross the border your EPIC file gets bigger.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

My passport is up for renewal. I went to the post office; got the renewal application, DS-82; filled out a few simple  questions one Page 1 and 2 (name, address, height, hair color, emergency contact, etc.). Question 20 asks Travel Plans (date, length, country). If you have none, say none. Include 2 new passport pictures, your old passport, a check for $75 and mail it all off to the address on Instruction Page 2 of the DS-82 form.

[k4kyv]

One needs a document in order to leave the country?

Crazy.

In many countries, particularly in Africa, Asia and Eastern Europe, you need an exit visa to leave the country.

In USSR you once needed an internal passport to travel from one region of the country to another, or to do about anything else for that matter.  That was one of the ways you could be made a non-person, your internal passport could be pulled.  In Russia, this has been eased up somewhat, but still exists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_passport

Internal Passport

USSR Passport System

[Opcom]

SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS!

[KL7OF]

SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS!

Wheat straws?......These are not visa papers!  No soup for you..

[W4EWH]

In USSR you once needed an internal passport to travel from one region of the country to another, or to do about anything else for that matter.  That was one of the ways you could be made a non-person, your internal passport could be pulled.  In Russia, this has been eased up somewhat, but still exists.

My son just tried to renew his MV Learner's Permit. The Registry of Motor Vehicles here in Massachusetts demanded that he produce proof  -

• That his signature is valid. They wanted to see his Social Security card to verify his signature.
• That he's a citizen of Massachusetts. They said a bank statement with his name on it would be acceptable.
• Of age. They want his birth certificate.

It was easier and quicker (and probably less expensive) to acquire the passport he used to travel with us to Belize in 2002.

The United States already uses internal passports. They're called Driver's Licenses!

[WA1GFZ]

Yea, and if we paid a few more taxes we could hire trolls at every bridge.

[Tom WA3KLR]

I went to the eye doctor last week and even though I have been going there for many years now, I had to present my driver's license which was then scanned in on a cute little card reader.

I spotted later a notice posted on a door in the waiting room about "The Red Flag Rule"; new proof of identity procedures required since April, for any entity that does credit card business.  (You probably pay some of your healthcare visit with a credit card.) 

So thanks to the miscreants who have been stealing identities, we have lost more individual privacy.  1984 WAS 25 years ago now; very scarey evolution taking place.

[k4kyv]

What does a person who doesn't drive or have a DL do when they go to the doctor?

[ve6pg]

...here in ontario, we just produce our OHIP card...

..sk..

[Tom WA3KLR]

Don,

You don't have to submit your driver's license for id proof.   What the exact proof requirement is I don't know.  But in Pennsylvania, the driver's license has photo and signature, address, so is a convenient id and was accepted.  The last time I started a new job, HR needs good proof also.  The most convenient acceptable proof for that situation was my passport.

[Tom WA3KLR]

FTC information page on the Red Flag Rule:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/alerts/alt050.shtm

Looks like its up to the "entity" to have a method to determine and spot "suspicious" activity.


Using your SSN for an id card is insane.  What are people thinking?  I can't believe the number of times in the past ten years I have been asked to provide my SSN.  I totally avoid if I can.  The last to ask was my previous employer the day I was there for my interview.  I told the lady that if I was hired then I would give my SSN.


Reminds me of this old study of behavior:
Last week I read an article which mentioned the study is the early 1960's? where people were in an experiment and truely believed they were giving an electric shock to someone else remotely.  Most of us over 50 have seen excerpts from this study's video at one time or other.  93 % of the test operators complied with severly "shocking" the remote subject when asked to. 

[Pete, WA2CWA]

If you run a small sole proprietorship or LLC, many states use your SS as the Tax ID number. Medicare uses your SS as your official claim number. Most tack on some digits or letters to the end of it, but it's not rocket science for someone to identify your SS. Many years ago, state and federal tax agencies use to tack your SS right on to the postal mailing label. Seems to me I remember reading somewhere years ago that's there's a ".gov" site, or something like that, where you could pull down just about anyone's SS number.

[k4kyv]

Using your SSN for an id card is insane.  What are people thinking?  I can't believe the number of times in the past ten years I have been asked to provide my SSN.  I totally avoid if I can.  The last to ask was my previous employer the day I was there for my interview.  I told the lady that if I was hired then I would give my SSN.

It used to say right on the SS card something like "For Social Security purposes only.  Not for identification"

Whenever I am asked for SS # for something where I don't think they have a legitimate need for it, instead of getting into a pissing contest over the issue, I just quietly give an "erroneous" number.  If it turns out there was some legitimate reason for having the number, you can always correct the "error" later.

Back in the 70's I took out a Tennessee DL before moving out of the state.  At that time they put the exact entire number on the licence itself, but called it a "DL number" and everyone knew what it was, just like the "Medicare" number on your medicare card.  I didn't feel at the time the state had any reason to have my number, so when I filled in the form, I changed some of the digits, and that's what appeared on the licence card.  Years later I moved back to this state and when I re-applied, they no longer printed the SS# on the card, but it still must have been in the data base; my new licence came with my old altered SS# as the DL number, which it still carries to this day.

I have done this many times, and have NEVER been asked to correct my "erroneous"  number.  So I have  probably been successful in muddling up my paper trail to some extent.

Of course, an employer does have a legitimate reason for the request, for tax withholding purposes after you have been hired.  I gave the  correct one for my ham licence renewal; I'm not sure if the FCC actually cross-references it or not, but they could probably use that to hold up the application past the expiration date if an error showed up on the computer.  But the city or county have no need to know your SS# number in order to issue you a building permit, a fishing licence or traffic ticket.

[w3jn]

When logic fails, "follow the money trail".

Like "daylight shopping time", you will find that it has nothing to do with security or saving the children.

Someone is buying all that irrelevant information from the passport service and is probably a greater source of revenue than selling you a passport.

js

  Not true


The Privacy Act prevents the Department of State from disclosing this information.

And you do NOT need to share your travel plans when applying for a passport.  It really is amazing how misinformation and rumors spread.  It would seem to me that rather than trying to get information from some third party the best place to find info on passport apps is the State Dept itself.