The Six Minute Guideline - How to Dynamically Handle Imploding Roundtables?

[wa2dtw]

I like Tom's idea, although we don't want it to get too much like an FM repeater, with many stringent rules.
Personally, I am most comfortable with Don's approach- multiple 1 on 1 QSO's, now possible with the expanded 75 meter and soon 40 meter band, or 4 at the very most.
I have never done well with break-in, although some really enjoy it.  Will do better when I get my 6-element 80-meter yagi up to 100 feet.
73
Steve WA2DTW

[K1JJ]

I like Tom's idea, although we don't want it to get too much like an FM repeater, with many stringent rules.
Steve WA2DTW

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the comments.

I want to hear that 6el 75M beam at 100', when you get it running..


Actually there's really no guidelines for MOST operations.  The guidelines are only for LARGE roundtables that show signs of falling apart in chaos.

The guidelines don't apply to one-on-one QSOs - talk as long as you wish.
They don't apply to break-in operation at all.

It's just for three or more stations in a ROUNDTABLE WHEN the QSO starts to get unorganized -  with stations making long OB transmissions, pissweakers talking too long and guys start signing out in disgust. That's when it may be a good time to suggest the sequence of rotation and  maximum time on transmissions to save the QSO from implosion.  I think most roundtables today operate fairly well as-is.  But occassionally they don't.

Personally, I like 10 second transmissions myself, but also like the occassional large roundtable - just like going to a party.  Roundtables are a way of life on AM - most AMers like them - and we might as well as adapt to them rather than trying to get them to become break-in. The guidelines are a plan, a way to keep the party going when things get rough...    It's just another tool that can be pulled out - but only when needed, and used sparingly.


73,

T

[W2VW]

One can run a mental spreadsheet of roundtable participants.

Number of new subjects brought up.

Number of answers and/or interaction to existing subject matter.

Then you have the number of times ANY subject gets segued into their favorite topic ala Irb.

Deerfield dunking tank to raise money for charity. Sign can read:
I don't know who it goes over to.

Second sign:
I wasn't paying attention to the QSO but broke in anyway.

[Opcom]

Spending most of my time in the lab and not on the air except for military communications, I have been in few roundtables. Those were when I was a Technician and would visit a friend and use his cathode modulated 250TH. He always wrote down all the calls and names in the order they progressed, but even so he seemed to know who was going to be on, maybe due to his frequent participation. This is a bunch of CW guys playing with AM of late, running 100W carriers having cath-or grid-modulated their PA. These guys used the same procedure, calls and names, on CW nets, which must have been roundtables. Due to the 'small' power levels, it is challenging at times and this makes it more fun, where CW would be little challenge to make the QSO with.

During the above experiences, somehow people 'knew' when to break in. Other times, the guy with the conch, when done, would turn it over "with a few seconds for any new stations", which would be respected, and would be about 5-7 seconds of silence.

In military nets, you know who is supposed to be there and a control stations directs the net.
In a roundtable, as said wisely here it is somewhat random.

When there is a RT going on, and the operators are not leaving much if any time between key-downs, how does one politely break in? You are either going to step on someone or get stepped on. Lots of big stations out there. Some you hear, others you do not. Just because you do not hear speech, you can't assume no one is speaking. Maybe there is no polite way into a situation like that.

Military solution: say "break" at the first opportunity or turnover. You get an acknowledgement.
This does not seem to work well for AM roundtables. What is the way gentlemen?

[WBear2GCR]

I do not think there is any one answer unless it is a directed and scheduled net with an acknowledged net control.

The way it works now (most of the time that is) on 3885 and there abouts seems ok to me. People come and go, and when it gets too big, it morphs on its own.

I personally think that is the best part actually, the way the QSO transforms itself over time.

Otoh, it is not a bad idea for a splinter group to split off and go down 10 or whatever... this happens too.

The whole thing revolves around the individual op having an inherent sense of the pace, timing and content of his (or her?) transmission. I suppose the biggest problem if there is one is if someone buzzards when there are a significant number of stations on the frequency - unless the buzzard transmission is positively scintillating.

I'd say that even some of our "most beloved" ops have inadvertantly been guilty of launching into a detailed dissertation at what might be perceived as the wrong time by some...

Bah, so what.
It's part of the beauty of the whole thing.
Think of it like a jam session where the musicians just show up and try to follow along or not - it's worth it for when it works right and the magic comes out. I think if you try to control it, the magic potential is lost.

I have a cassette tape, somewhere in a file cabinet (I hope it is there) of the 'gators on 3895 from back ~1980. I don't know why I rolled tape that night. When I kicked the tape into record, the frequency was empty. By and by stations came on... it rose to a fabulous frenzy and cacaphony, and then gradually subsided, all in the length of one tape. Perfect in all regards. Like a wonderful musical composition in the greatest sense.

The magic of Ham Radio. 

It's magic guys, it's magic.

               _-_-bear

[Opcom]

Can you somedayMP3 the whole thing and shoot it over to me? That would be educational and entertaining. I hear some of these gentlemen on the air, but never 'most' of them. In coming months this might be remedied since the tower is going up. Whe the time comes, maybe I'll just post on this system asking for the next session time and join when it cranks up.

In preparation since the big transmitters are not ready yet 8-{ I built a T/R relay to kick on the NCL2000. I can thow out a little 200W carrier using that leenyar -just no buzzarding on it as 8122's are xpensive.

[WBear2GCR]

Finding that tape would be daunting - if it still physically exists.

Unfortunately it will probably be in the dumpster when I am SK along with a whole lot of other stuff that has about zero value to most of the population...

Should I locate it, it will quickly go to a working casette machine and over to the computer.

               _-_-bear

[wb1aij]

Well, I sure am glad to hear that I am not the only one who thinks that most round table QSOs are BORING. My reaction to this boredom was to loose interest in the hobby & stay off the air. Sometimes I would feel bad that I lost interest in something that used to absolutely facinate me. I even thought of shedding most of my equipment & just maintaining a very small portable shack. I am hoping this posting will spark me into getting excited about ham radio once more.

[W9GT]

Well, I really enjoy participating in round tables, but unfortunately, many times they do get out of hand .  It is particularly annoying when you are carrying on a nice interesting conversation between two,three, or four stations and then a bunch of other stations break-in "just to say hello" and totally disrupt the flow. 

I understand that they just want to be recognized and have it known that they are listening, however, sometimes it just ruins the conversation by having so many interuptions.  I think it is fine if you break-in to add a comment or to bring attention to something which really adds to the conversation, but so many times the breaker has nothing at all to add and the subject being discussed gets lost in the confusion.  To add insult to injury, often these guys emphasize the fact that they have nothing to add and often apologize because they don't have anything to say.

I'm not criticizing anyone specifically, but we all need to keep that in mind when joining roundtables....especially when they become unwieldy with over 4 or 5 stations.   If you have something to contribute...that is fine, however, if you just want to be recognized...you should refrain from breaking-in, or at most, just say hi and then say you are listening.  Then the group knows you are there and can direct specific comments or questions your way, if desired.  You can then always break-in again if you have something to add to the conversation.

Obviously, there is a definite advantage to break-in style operation as contrasted with monologues when involved in larger groups.  Many of us, however, really enjoy the laid-back old buzzard style of transmissions, as long as we don't get too long-winded.  It is that style which makes AM stand-out as a different and perhaps more-relaxed mode.  Unfortunately, opinions about the definition of too long-winded vary tremendously amongst various individuals. 

Anyway..the suggestions for keeping the time of transmissions down and passing it around more often have definite merit.

73,  Jack, W9GT