Boatanchors Know No Bounds...

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

It's an affliction, I tell ya. The appreciation/admiration of all things old, large, and well-built. I'm sure many of us recall visits to the old general store or neighborhood mom & pop grocery store for a bottle of cold Birch Beer, Crush, and so on. Creaking wooden floors, heavy duty hardware, handles that fit the hand and were built to last.

With the recent home purchase in NC, Jen and I have decided to forgo the mundane, disposable 'manufactured obsolescence'  approach and go for stuff that was built to last and, incidentally, also has a high coolness factor with respect to design and history. She's always liked the 40s-50s beehive-looking refrigerators, I've always liked the store cooler/refrigerated ice box look. The pending sale of a long-closed family grocery store tucked away on a side street locally provided the opportunity for both. Quite a storied history behind the scenes.

And yes - there's a radio connection too (RCA console), along with a nice Victrola from the connected residence. Those are still in limbo, I've encouraged family members to keep them.

Hey - whats a couple more appliances when you're moving a 1370 lbs BC transmitter and similar items?

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Spent last night removing the shelving built around it decades ago, by the 78 yr old son's father. Check out the hardware and the size of those doors! Double-paned windows, beveled glass mirror, nickel-plated brass hardware....they sure knew how to build stuff back then. We have to remove the store's large window to get it out.

$100 Finder's Fee awarded to whomever locates an original round "Monitor"-type compressor/evaporator unit that fits on top (it currently runs off a remote unit in another room). Of course, much more if you happen to have one. I bet Jared has several kicking around in his garage...

[WQ9E]

Nice find Todd,

My cousin still has (in operation) the International Harvester refrigerator/freezer and separate freezer units that were given to them as promo items back in the 50's for purchasing some IHC farm equipment.  Seeing them a few months ago rekindled my desire to find and restore one of the 70's era International Scout II's from the era before SUV's became "yuppified".  I don't need 4 wheel drive often here but it is a necessity at times and if I could find a decent Scout then next time I buy a new pickup I won't have to buy it with 4WD.

So yes, the boat anchor affliction does know no bounds.

Rodger WQ9E

[Mike/W8BAC]

That large GE is really cool Todd (no pun intended). I have no idea how economical it might be to run but a big advantage is being able to see what is inside without opening the door and letting the cool out. People pay big bucks these days for that. If it can be upgraded to thermal pane windows, all the better. Insulation wasn't very good back in the day and electricity was cheep so an upgrade here might be a good idea if it is possible. It gets a 10 for looks!

I had an old Crosley Shelvador that looked similar to the Hot point. It was built like a Buick and sorta looked like one too. I'll bet if it still exists, it still runs. Have fun.

Mike

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

You got it, Mike - I'm going to update the insulation and make sure everything is sealed up well. The only holes in the side are one nail hole at the very bottom and the screw holes for the temp control they mounted with the new compressor a few years ago. The windows have 3-4" between the panes, so I think as long as they're tight, they should be fine. Did give some thought to using argon in them, but not for long. Getting the old compressor for the top would be great. There's a mount up there about 2.5 feet by 1.5 feet where the line and power comes through (currently runs down the side), and 4 large rubber shockmounts to isolate any vibration from the compressor. Seems they left it outside after it was removed and it wandered off. Check out some of the antique and high end appliance sites, you'll be amazed what your Crosley is worth these days.

rekindled my desire to find and restore one of the 70's era International Scout II's from the era before SUV's became "yuppified".  I don't need 4 wheel drive often here but it is a necessity at times and if I could find a decent Scout then next time I buy a new pickup I won't have to buy it with 4WD.

Yep, my old Land Rover 88 Ser. III was along the same lines: basic, and nearly bullet-proof. No frills, meant to do the job. We used an old 60s Scout for hauling firewood down off a mountain years ago, no brakes. Was an interesting experience, but regardless of how much we pounded the old IH, it just kept chugging along. Started right up, ran flawlessly all day. And climbed that mountain like a goat.

[W8EJO]

Nice find Todd,

Seeing them a few months ago rekindled my desire to find and restore one of the 70's era International Scout II's from the era before SUV's became "yuppified".  I don't need 4 wheel drive often here but it is a necessity at times and if I could find a decent Scout then next time I buy a new pickup I won't have to buy it with 4WD.


Rodger WQ9E

I had three scouts. A 76 SS 4x4 with a 304. A 74 Scout II 4x2 with the 196 & a 68 800 4x4 with a 304.

The 68 was my fav. The 76 was the toughest, fastest 4x4 vehicle I've ever owned.

[N3DRB The Derb]

the only thing bout the  hotpoint fridge is the ice buildup in the freezer. It will look like a glacier in there after a while. 

[WQ9E]

Todd and Terry,

The Scout is definitely a nostalgia thing.  My parents had a '73 Travelall (392) and later a '79 Scout II (304) when I was growing up and there are some fun travel memories from those rigs.  I have been thinking that a vintage vehicle restoration project would be an interesting side trip from vintage gear restoration so I am going to start keeping an eye out for a good candidate.

Todd, coming down the mountain without brakes I am sure was interesting!  I am sure you made good use of downshifting and engine braking.  I would definitely want to do a thorough overhaul of all the major mechanical systems on any vintage vehicle.  I have had no real reliability issues with late model vehicles although my 2006 GMC Sierra had a check engine light pop up on my recent trip to Colorado, it was diagnosed by OnStar and apparently one of the fuel rail sensors (it's a high pressure common rail direct injection turbo-diesel) reported the fuel pressure didn't drop as quickly as expected on shutdown and apparently has a sensor issue.  This is becoming more of a problem with the modern high tech engines as the sensors themselves cause a lot of "nuisance" check engine lights.  The good news is that it didn't interrupt the trip but since I was in "the middle of nowhere, Iowa" on a Sunday had it been anything serious I would have been waiting for awhile for a GMC dealer to open the next day.

[w3jn]

Todd, that is outstandingly cool!!  I'll bet you could get a refrig tech to rig up an external compressor and coil unit.

I dated a girl in college who rented a place with a big old late 50s IH refrigerator.  Plenty of chrome and the IH logo was proudly displayed on the door.  Would love to find one.  BTW IH was big into refrigeration, selling farmers big units to keep milk cool, then made the foray into consumer fridges and freezers.

You will never find a vehicle as tough as an old Scout - except maybe for a 3/4 ton Gravelall  .  The Scout IIs used all medium-duty truck components - the 345 V8 and wide-ratio 4 speed and a pair of Dana 44s was better than GM used on their 3/4 ton trucks.  My '78 Scout could walk away in 4th gear with just a slight slipping of the clutch, and you could walk beside it in 4-lo-first gear as it navigated itself over logs and boulders!  The one achilles heel of IH products was rust, unfortunately.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Yes, neat stuff, but it all should be outlawed since it was/is bad for the environment. Please Todd, don't ever plug that thing in.  The oceans will rise.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I have some manuals for some 1930's Philco refrigerators.

[W2JBL]

    Todd- i have two old refridgerators at my Old Forge hideout- a mid 40's GE, and a late 30's G.M. that's complete with freakin' hood ornamnent on the front of the door- Frigidair by General Motors. both are in really nice shape and extremely efficient. i can't figure out how my family got them up the mountain to the house though, except driven by a strong desire for cold beer after a long hunt... the big GE tossed it's thermostat last summer and i could not find a direct replacement. i ended up with an external unit from the Grainger catalog meant for a freezer locker. i just ran the rather long tube from the bulb to the outside of the fridge and wired it up. both of these old buzzards keep my beer at a perfect 28 degrees. of course they are probably a Hazmat response if they leak- the coolant is the old ammonia based stuff.  low tech RULES!!!

[Vortex Joe - N3IBX]

Hello Todd,
              Congrads on your purchases and your desire to go "retro" as much as possible. You mimic what I like,(and the xyl too, though I'll take it to extremes) and have a keen eye for what could be described as "Googie" or "Mid Century Modern" design. It's definitely a school of thought with it's roots based in "Bauhaus".

Regarding the "Monitor top" compressor you need for your GE fridge, as Chris W2JBL mentioned, it has an ammonia system so be careful with it. I would ASSUME it has a receiver-drier like freon based systems, and will most likely have to be evacuated before you install a new compressor. I've never worked with an ammonia system before so unfortunately I can't help you with it. There has to be someone out there (probably a commercial serviceman) who could give you some advice on how to service it. Like I said, ammonia is extremely dangerous stuff to be working with, so please take every precaution you can.

The RCA console radio, and the Victrola "lowboy" are definite keepers! I think the RCA uses PP 6F6's in it's audio output, and will have a great booming sound when played. I'm curious, is it in working condition now? I know you encopuraged family members to kjeep the radio, and the lowboy Victrola, but they'd make a great addition to your repertoire of "stuff"!

Let me know hen you have a station setup again in your new NC residence. I speak for others as well as myself that it will be great to work you on 160M and 75M again!


Very Best Regards,
                        Joe Cro N3IBX

[N3DRB The Derb]

Todd is gonna give teh Wally and Richard types hell from down there. Between him and HUZ they will rule the mid south quadrant.

[W1ATR]

Nice find Todd. I love those old refer boxes. Built like a TMC transmitter and they'll last twice as long.(Not to mention more chrome than a '56 Caddy)

Are you getting the complete package with condenser and all. You wouldn't want the top mounted OEM condenser anyway if your going to try and stuff this baby into a resi kitchen. The amount of heat it throws on a run cycle adds quite a bit to the overall kitchen temp. AKA, the OL will hate it.

You said there was a condenser in another room. Take that dammit, $you$$want$$that!$ The refrigerant type should be on a tag somewhere on the condenser and with any luck, it's modern. (R12, R502, etc.) After the charge is removed (reclaimed) and the lineset is cut, make sure to seal the ends up tight.(Lots of electrical tape will be fine to keep out moisture during transport.)

I don't recall if this was mentioned, but it should already be double payne thermal glass, so just strip away the guts and focus on the insulation. Styrofoam would be the norm for this. Making sure door gaskets seal tightly is of the utmost importance and finding one's that will work might be an issue. Send out all the shelving and have them re-chromed along with any hardware that needs it, and a nice coat of oxford white imron 5000 will make that baby look better than it did when it was new. Follow all this up with a nice Omron digital remote t-stat and set it to a nice teeth cracking 33 degrees.

Done right, this thing probably uses a 3/8hp-1/2hp compressor, so power usage will be minimal. About the same as two standard fridges or one 'sub-zero'(they use two comp's on the sub zero's), but the coolness factor will be off the 60db end of the scale.

I figure this could all be knocked out for around 15 grand. j/k 

[W1ATR]

the only thing bout the  hotpoint fridge is the ice buildup in the freezer. It will look like a glacier in there after a while. 

Ya know what's funny about that. The only technology difference between this fridge and a 'frost free' from today, is  heat strips on the evap coil and a defrost timer to switch them on and knock off the compressor for a few minutes every 6 hours or so. The melted condensate water flows thru a channel into a catch pan in the bottom of the fridge and they looped the hot gas line off the compressor (before it goes to the condenser coil) thru this pan to heat up and evaporate the water. With a lttle creative hacking, those old iceberg fridges could be upgraded easily.

[W9GT]

Neat old 'fridge Todd! Seems like I recall that a fellow built a nice big AM transmitter in a refrigerator some years back and it was called the "Kelvinator Kilowatt" or something like that.  I wonder if you have any such sinister intentions.  Hi Hi OM

73,  Jack, W9GT

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Not me, nosiree! Like many others here, I appreciate the old stuff for what it is, instead of what it isn't. It's a different kind of torment. More of a 'Vortex' kinda thing. If it's old, large, heavy, and well-built (and doesn't expect you to marry it), it's worth investigating and likely having.

A few things to address. First of all, yes Jared - I really do want to find the original unit for the top. I know that sounds crazy, especially considering the heat issues you mention, but I'm hoping that once the insulation is updated it won't cycle on and off a lot. That's the beauty of the windows - you don't need to open the door to check those science experiments formerly known as 'leftovers'. Even if it just sets up there for looks, I want one. Has that Roswell look to it. I'm guessing it's roughly the size of the one on this three door unit:

http://www.antiqueappliances.com/products/general_electric/1934_3-door_monitor_top.htm

The old rig was still in use until a few years ago. As luck would have it, one of the seller's son-in-laws works in HVAC. Apparently he refitted it to use a new or different compressor unit, which is included in the sale. It's mounted in the back room. Looks like a regular fridge compressor, but has a fan and radiator attached as well, all mounted on a steel plate. I'm not up on the condenser/evaporator side of things. I can tell you that there's a smaller steel unit with a fan still inside the fridge itself (condenser?), and there was a big UFO on top at one point(compressor/evaporator?). That's the extent of my knowledge on HVAC, which is why your post adds a lot, Jared. Pretty sure he said it had R12 in it before, but no more. The sulfur dioxide, methyl formate, or ammonia stuff is long gone.

    Todd- i have two old refridgerators at my Old Forge hideout- a mid 40's GE, and a late 30's G.M. that's complete with freakin' hood ornamnent on the front of the door- Frigidair by General Motors. both are in really nice shape and extremely efficient.

Now, why doesn't this surprise me, Chris?  There's a guy in Georgia who runs a place called Antique Appliances, he prefers to use the original compressors and equipment in his restorations because they are durable, reliable, quieter, and more efficient than newer units, partly due to the lack of the 'frost free' bit. That's a big plus on this GE, it's only a fridge. No freezer. Jen can chisel out her little Hotpoint when it gets frozen.

Windows are indeed double-paned, 3-4 inches between the panes. Hardware and trim looks to be nickel-plated brass for the most part, maybe some stainless strips on the sides. Front panels are all porcelain, as is the entire interior. Sides may have been painted, not sure yet as they are painted yellow atm. The steel shelves appear to have been white porcelain coated as well, although it's not smooth but feels scruffy, maybe so things wouldn't slip or slide around when the compressor kicked in. Might get these plated, they are the only part that shows any real age with some light rust showing. There are some small chips in the front lower panel, character marks that show it's been around a while. I can live with those. 

Insulating it will be the biggest chore, fortunately it looks easy to do by simply removing flat panels. Around the inside of the doors are hundreds of wee screws, they will require some patience. The handles are a bit sloppy too, brass being soft and all. I'm going to look into getting new pins and whatever else made to rebuild them.

Oh yes - the door seals. Long gone. They used some kind of sticky foam strips for replacements, looks like hell but appears to work. The antique appliance place has replacement gasket material, just need to get a good one. Letting the cold out and the hot in was the biggest issues with these old rigs as far as efficiency - not the cooling system.

Yes, neat stuff, but it all should be outlawed since it was/is bad for the environment. Please Todd, don't ever plug that thing in.  The oceans will rise.

Yeah, but think how nice the IPA will look through the windows, and how cold it will be. Well worth a dinosaur or two. No, you can't add SS rectifiers.

Todd is gonna give teh Wally and Richard types hell from down there. Between him and HUZ they will rule the mid south quadrant.

Only if you get that maul up and running and join in the fun. The three of us could make up the AM Triad. When Johnny joins it, we'll be Quadraphonic.

Another shot after tearing out all of the shelving, with me for scale(6'2"). It looked to be sitting on a pedestal, but pulling away the false front revealed 6 iron legs. I might have it by an inch or 2 if you don't count the compressor/evaporator mount on top.

[Mike/W8BAC]

Todd Said

it's only a fridge. No freezer.

I wonder why the right hand door has no windows Todd. I figured that side was a freezer.

It would look cool having the original compressor on top. The one in that picture has some style. In the meantime the top could be boxed in to cover the old mount.

Mike

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

We're gonna put up a wall of RF!

Todd is gonna give teh Wally and Richard types hell from down there. Between him and HUZ they will rule the mid south quadrant.

[W1ATR]

From Todd: A few things to address. First of all, yes Jared - I really do want to find the original unit for the top. I know that sounds crazy, especially considering the heat issues you mention, but I'm hoping that once the insulation is updated it won't cycle on and off a lot. That's the beauty of the windows - you don't need to open the door to check those science experiments formerly known as 'leftovers'. Even if it just sets up there for looks, I want one. Has that Roswell look to it. I'm guessing it's roughly the size of the one on this three door unit:

http://www.antiqueappliances.com/products/general_electric/1934_3-door_monitor_top.htm

The old rig was still in use until a few years ago. As luck would have it, one of the seller's son-in-laws works in HVAC. Apparently he refitted it to use a new or different compressor unit, which is included in the sale. It's mounted in the back room. Looks like a regular fridge compressor, but has a fan and radiator attached as well, all mounted on a steel plate. I'm not up on the condenser/evaporator side of things. I can tell you that there's a smaller steel unit with a fan still inside the fridge itself (condenser?), and there was a big UFO on top at one point(compressor/evaporator?). That's the extent of my knowledge on HVAC, which is why your post adds a lot, Jared. Pretty sure he said it had R12 in it before, but no more. The sulfur dioxide, methyl formate, or ammonia stuff is long gone.

--------------------------------------------

lol, using the old OEM type stuff would be good to keep that 100% original look, but that's right about where it would end with me. I'm the type to take a 52 Merc and stick a fuelie small block in it just to have the tricked out mix of old and new.

So you know what to ask for when looking for parts, I'm going to give you the ugly stick shakedown on what's called what and why.

The original unit your looking for to go on top would be the "condenser". It's normally only called the condenser as it's considered a whole. Whats in the back room is the same thing, just located remotely. It consists of the compressor, an aluminum condenser coil (the radiator) and a fan to blow air thru it. There's probably a relay to turn the compressor on and off, maybe not. Theory is the compressed refrigerant leaves the compressor as a hot gas and flows to the condenser coil. The fan blows air thru the coil removing the heat (called subcooling) from the hot gas and it returns back to liquid state. The liquid flows out of the condenser unit, in the liquid line under high pressure (smaller pipe, or discharge line, or high side, lol.) and makes it's way towards the evaporator unit inside the fridges box. Before it gets to the evaporator coil inside the box, it goes thru a metering device, in this case, probably some sort of orifice. The pressures on each side of that orifice have a very wide separation and this allows the refrigerant to expand (boil off) into a gas. When the liquid boils off thru that orifice, it loses all the heat it had and now becomes an icy cold vapor. (Saturated vapor) This vapor moves to the 'evaporator' coil where THAT fan now blows thru it and this vapor now absorbs the heat that was inside the refrigerated box. This vapor leaves the box not quite as cold as it was before, but still pretty chilled, (called superheated gas, even tho we're dealing with cold). It makes it's way back towards the condenser in the larger of the two pipes,(the suction line, or low side). It goes back to the condenser and enters the compressor as a chilled gas. This still cold gas is vital for cooling the motor inside the compressor shell. This is why charging to the correct level is so important. If the compressor isn't cooled sufficiently, then it lives a short life. (These types of compressors are what called "hermetically sealed") From there, the compressor does it's thing and makes this low pressure cool gas a high pressure hot gas and the cycle starts all over.

This was just a real brief 101 on how it goes and I left out a few things not important to the conversation like receiver/dryers and pressure switches and so forth, but I just wanted to offer a quick and dirty on the subject, as it'll make finding parts much easier if you know what your asking for and where it goes.

Personally, if I had to have the UFO, I'd stuff it fulla new parts instead of messing with the 60 year old mechanical stuff. Compressors are the hardest working part of the system and they do indeed have a service life that isn't indefinite. I'd hate to have an old part finally fail at a bad time, like around a holiday when the box is stuffed fulla goodies, and the compressor or t-stat, or one of the no longer made fan motors finally puke, and there's no chance of an easy off the shelf replacement. Being a piston in a bore, the bore does wear and the compression ratio goes down meaning longer run times and less efficient cooling would be another one of my reasons to hide new stuff inside an old shell.

Just drop that mutha off here in CT on the way thru and we'll make it into a one off Amfone 807 jet powered supercooler with a two stage 25 ton cooling system (300,000Btu) that take a warm 80deg 807 and drop it to a lip-sticking 29 degrees and do it in 15 seconds.    

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Many thanks for the thumbnail sketch, Jared. It's good to know which part is which in such an adventure. I figured if I did get an original unit for the top, I'd probably hook it up, not be happy with the results or have it crap out, and end up following the 'for display only' route. It's easy enough to do, since the lines come out of the top beneath where it would sit. Easy enough to angle them across the top and down the back (they go down the left side now) and through the floor to the space beneath the house where the condenser unit will live. In fact, that's how it will have to be set up anyhow, since I don't have the top unit (yet).

There are indeed two copper lines (maybe 20-30 feet long) running from the box to the unit out back. Wondered what the pencil-sized line was for, now I know. The other is an inch or so in diameter. The smaller fan unit inside looks to be in decent shape overall. Wish you lived closer, I'd hire you to rebuild the refrigeration on the beast. I bet you'd like the '50 Lincoln dad and I have been fixin' up. Basically a Merc with a styled front clip. Does have the original 337 flathead V8 in it, though. See below.

I wonder why the right hand door has no windows Todd. I figured that side was a freezer.

Same exact thought I had when I first saw it, Mike. Unless you're at the correct angle, you can't tell there's no wall on that side. Found its big brother online, same deal but no windows at all:

http://www.antiqueappliances.com/products/restored/1926_ge.htm

I'm guessing the windows came about a few years later. Maybe they figured it was too much glass area to have on one door. The old timer told me they kept the beer in that side, away from the kids' prying eyes.

Somehow, it all seems to fit together: big, old transmitters, receivers, refrigerators, cars...the common threads being quality, styling, and the opportunity to enjoy history from a hands on perspective. I've seen shots of Vortex Joe's big Chrysler in his garage, that's all the proof needed. 

[W1GUD]

The deep south (Flori-DUH) looks forward to some help from the mid south!

Go Todd, amazin frigger!

and IPAs INDEED

73, Warren 1GUD

[Carl WA1KPD]

Nice Lincoln.
Is that going south too?

[N3DRB The Derb]

There's a crew, a gang, a mob, coming up this weekend to get my W7FG antenna in the air. That's the one thing I cant do myself. Maul #1 is getting new 500V @ 180 uf filter caps installed in non JS fashion, 3 amp diodes, hardwired 75 meter tank, new plate choke ( done ) and shielded B+ line. Yaesu #1 is ready to go right now.

this fall and winter, the enemies of AM will recoil in fear and dread as the AM Army of the Mid Atlantic returns like unstoppable zombies in search of slopbuckit brains. DROP DAT MAUL AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH