Incandescent lamps outlawed?

[k4kyv]

Not yet, but I happened onto this site.  It looks like ceiling fans and ceiling fan light kits are going the way of flush-toilets and water usage, with new DOE mandates on energy usage, and a requirement that the kits be equipped with CFL's.

Of course, bureaucrats use a different dialect of English from normal people, so standard light bulb sockets are called "medium screw base sockets", or "E26 base
types" by DOE.

All ceiling fans manufactured after January 1, 2007, must have fan speed controls separate from any lighting controls, adjustable speed controls (either more than one speed or variable speed), and the capability of reverse fan action except in the cases of fans sold for industrial applications, outdoor applications, and cases in which safe standards would be violated by use of a reversible mode. (42 U.S.C. 6295(ff))

I suppose that explains why no-one  sells ceiling fans any more that have real shaded pole motors with cast-iron motor case and coils and rotor visible through the vent holes in the motor case.  Look closely at ceiling fans sold to-day and you will see that the motor housing is totally fake, made out of stamped sheet metal and made to look like a vintage fan, but the actual motor hidden inside the fake housing is a tiny sealed unit about the size of your two fists.  The attached photos show what a real ceiling fan motor looks like. That one was kind of beat up before restoration.

Future scenario:  incandescent lamps become totally banned, and vacuum tubes are included under the definition of "incandescent lamps". 


http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/appliance_standards/residential/ceiling_fans.html

[W8EJO]

And all of this big-brother, nanny statism because of the CO2/GW myth.

It looks like Vladimir Lenin was right -  “A lie told often enough becomes truth”

[KL7OF]

always lookin on the bright side.........It isn't if you are paranoid, It's are you paranoid enough....

[WA1GFZ]

weapons of mass stupidity

[k4kyv]

always lookin on the bright side.........It isn't if you are paranoid, It's are you paranoid enough....

Looks like the satire in my statement about vacuum tubes was too subtle.

I doubt that the possession and use of incandescent lamps or vacuum tubes will ever be banned outright.  They will simply become unobtainium, just like newly-manufactured US-made vacuum tubes already are.

Ever since the blurb in the news about incandescents vs those wonderfully efficient CFL's a few months ago, incandescents have become noticeably scarcer at all the retail outlets in this area, while the light bulb section has become flooded with CFL's.

The future unavailability of incandescents will be as much a corporate decision as a government decision.  But based on the precedent of federally imposed 1.6 gallon/flush toilet standards, and now the ceiling fan and ceiling fan light kit energy standards, efficiency standards on light bulbs are not exactly implausible.  This could come in several forms, from standards that would allow only the sale of very high efficiency (but extremely delicate, short-lived and undoubtedly expensive) incandescent lamps, to standards of efficiency that would preclude incandescents altogether. 

Since nearly all of our consumer junk is now manufactured offshore, it will increasingly become easier to ban something simply by prohibiting it from being imported into the country. If you look closely, many of the "long-life" incandescent bulbs sold retail are made in eastern Europe, in countries like Bulgaria.  They have an extra heavy filament, and put out a more amber looking light and run extremely hot - in other words they are very low efficiency. I  suspect these are nothing more than standard bulbs manufactured for use in those countries, and rebranded as "long-life" bulbs for sale in US.

I used to occasionally buy overpriced low-efficiency long-life bulbs from an outfit that called themselves "handicapped workers of America", because the lamps would take hard physical abuse when installed in a portable shop lamp without crapping out the filament - you could literally drop a light equipped with those things 3 feet onto a concrete floor and they would keep on glowing as if nothing had happened.  The first batch I ever bought were simply stamped "100 watts, 130 volts - Made in Bulgaria".  That type of bulb would have been ideal in the old "iron curtain" countries; it seldom needed replacing, while its low efficiency in an environment already choking in coal smoke and emissions from dirty factories was of little concern. Later, those exact same lamps carried the Handicapped Worker logo with a wheelchair symbol, but were otherwise identical.  One obvious difference from domestic lamps is that they had a real brass base, like US-made bulbs used to have years ago.  They used crystal clear glass, not frosty or "soft light" envelopes.  Actually, the frosty bulb reduces the efficiency, but it also reduces the annoying glare of clear glass bulbs.  Of course, being designed for 130 volts, operating them at 120 volts extends their lifespan even more, but likewise makes their efficiency suck even more.

If additional "energy efficiency standards" are imposed on retail consumer junk (the most likely scenario), items like incandescent lamps and vacuum tube electronics could well fail to qualify and disappear from the market.  Who knows, they might prohibit the importation of foreign made vacuum tubes on energy efficiency grounds.

Maybe the DOE will ban the commercial sale of those $85,000 audiophool stereo amps that use 211's or 845's because they don't meet efficiency standards! 

[W1AEX]

All good points Don (including the satire). I know that Connecticut has been trying to join the "How many legislators does it take to change a lightbulb act", but I'm not sure what its status is. The last thing I looked at talked about CT, CA, and NJ attempting to ban the sale of incandescent bulbs within their borders:

http://www.americanlightingassoc.com/members/files/03_07Lightrays.pdf

In their zeal to to appear innovative, what the lawmakers don't seem to grasp is that there are a whole host of home and industrial applications where the CFL bulbs will not function, such as in dimmers or many timer controlled lights.

I like what one manufacturer said, "“We strongly believe that the affected states would literally return to the dark ages if this proposal were to become law, and hope that this will not become reality.”

Hope they never ban my Star Wars Light Sabre, damn, what would I do without it?

Rob W1AEX

[W1RKW]

I've noticed the decrease in incandescent shelf space at Home Cheapo.  I think I will take Frank's(GFZ) posture and stock up before they go away. It's inevitable the way things are going as of late.  And the pollution fags don't care about the RF pollution some of these are prone to emit.

[N0WEK]

All ceiling fans manufactured after January 1, 2007, must have fan speed controls separate from any lighting controls, adjustable speed controls (either more than one speed or variable speed), and the capability of reverse fan action except in the cases of fans sold for industrial applications, outdoor applications, and cases in which safe standards would be violated by use of a reversible mode. (42 U.S.C. 6295(ff))


Future scenario:  incandescent lamps become totally banned, and vacuum tubes are included under the definition of "incandescent lamps". 


http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/appliance_standards/residential/ceiling_fans.html

I spent a couple of years working at one of the local home improvement places back in 1985-6 and we sold a lot of fans, all of which had the same small motor and sheet metal case and met the current standard; nothing has really changed all that much since then. Only one or two companies sold the old heavy duty fans even then and for all I know, they still do.

[ve6pg]

...ok, but what am i gonna do, fer my outside motion sensor floodlights?...tim....sk..

[W1QWT]

Future scenario:  incandescent lamps become totally banned, and vacuum tubes are included under the definition of "incandescent lamps". 

Will they be able to make CFL's small enough to put up as Christmas lights? Well they could just ban Christmas as not being GREEN. He says with trepidation.

Oh yeh BTW I read yesterday on the local GREEN blog that incandescent lights are only 20% efficient i.e. 80% of the energy consumed is given off as heat and that is a "bad thing".
Does anybody know the actual efficiency of an incandescent bulb?
Personally I like the extra heat in the winter time that a bulb gives off but it doesn't seem hot enough to say that a 60 watt bulb is giving off 40 watts. I mean if it is on anyways it might as well do double duty.

Regards
Q, W1QWT

[K3ZS]

Lightbulb heat is cheaper than oil heat!

[K1JJ]

Lightbulb heat is cheaper than oil heat!

Yep!

In the mid 90's I made a posting on an astronomy forum describing how I used two 60 watt bulbs in series for long life -  to heat my 22" telescope  and mechanisms - to keep the moisture out. The scope was stored outside in a removable enclosure for EZ access to the sky.

Anyway, I mentioned that it's too bad the light was a waste since I only wanted heat from the bulbs. One of the forum guys saw my callsign user name and said, "You should know better, being a ham.... the light (photons) eventually turns into heat too."...    I realized he was correct.

So I guess you could say that a light bulb in a closed container (or room without windows) is about 100% efficient when it comes to producing heat, yes?   (conservation of energy theory)

T

[W3RSW]

You da man Tom,
Tell em! - Your the original black body radiator...
and your scope shack the original black body sink..

Photons Forever.

[k4kyv]

"You should know better, being a ham.... the light (photons) eventually turns into heat too."...    I realized he was correct.

Yes, the warmth you feel from the sun is not from infrared radiation emitted directly from the solar surface, but from the converted light energy that is not reflected away from your skin.

That same phenomenon is what produces the greenhouse effect.

[WA1GFZ]

I heat my water meter during the winter with a pair of 100 watters in series at the beach QTH. This way I don't have to turn off the main at the street.
Yup 100% efficient.

[kb3ouk]

And the RF pollution from CFLs? You can tell that some of these people are definitely not hams. I never really cared for CFLs, or any florescent lights, because they just never seemed bright enough. Incandescent lights always seemed to be bright enough for me. And realy, most people probably use  vacuum tubes everyday, even these enviromentalists, and don't relize it, since microwave ovens use magnetrons and TVs use picture tubes, and these are all variations of vacuum tubes.
Shelby, KB3OUK

[Carl WA1KPD]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=e-LOtKIIKcg

Carl /KPD

[WA1GFZ]

Over 100 bulbs in the stash and growing

[steve_qix]

Interesting talk, but *highly* unlikely that vacuum tubes will be banned 

While I *do not* repeat *do not* support any ban on incandescent lamps, the fact is, they are less energy efficient.

Lights are supposed to produce light and not heat.  Sure, you could argue that there is some secondary heating benefit in the winter, but really - this is not a good thing.

I use many, many CFLs in my house (including in my celing fan    ), and they are excellent.  The light is good, and they are much cooler.   The newest ones even work well outside - in the cold.  And, they seem to last a really long time.

I suppose if you really think about it, incandescent lights are a double waste - you waste energy in the excess heat, and then waste more energy removing that heat from the building during the non-heating months.  Gee, I'm starting to sound like some kind of moon-bat here, but anyone who knows me knows my generally conservative (or more accurately, populist) leanings... Keep the gov't out of my business, flat taxes, etc. !!

I've been into the energy efficient thing since 1985, when I designed my first house with double-wall construction, triple glazed low E windows and passive solar.  My 2nd house (I designed and built in 1992) is even better than the first one with respect to energy efficiency, as the material (and windows) had improved .  And, of course there's the whole class E project - mega energy efficient, but I would never, never, never want to ban less efficient methods.  It's my choice and it should alway BE a choice - in lighting or any other area.

A ban on the older style bulbs?  NO WAY NO WAY NO WAY  I may create a stash too - just to have some older style bulbs on hand for the far future.

Eventually, and probably in the near future, the CFLs are going to replaced by high output LEDs anyway..... and those are even MORE efficient !   

Regards,

Steve

[WD8BIL]

Gee, I'm starting to sound like some kind of moon-bat here, but anyone who knows me knows my generally conservative (or more accurately, populist) leanings... Keep the gov't out of my business, flat taxes, etc. !!

Not at all Steve. You tend to look at it in a common sense way. That's the major diff 'tween you and the wackos. Changing over to CFLs puts money back in my pocket. As you said, they use less energy and last longer. Those are reason enuf.
There really is no need to trump up a fraud like MMGW to justify it. If it puts money back in my pocket it's a no brainer.

[Ed/KB1HYS]

LED lights can be a big time RF generator.  In town we have all the stop lights replaced with LED versions.  If I listen to the radio, I can always hear those things.  The drown out the Local kilowat station here in town.  S9++ noise.   

CFLs don't last in my house.  Don't know why. Ordinart flourescents no problem. They also are buzzy RF wise.  Could be my house wiring or something.

CFL's are wasteful when they are burn out.  To hard to recycle and trace toxins. (One bulb no problem, but if they really replace a majority of incandecent lamps, picture a million in the landfill and eventually )

You would save as much energy getting rid of all the "Phantom" power users in your home, nearly every electric gadeget in the home pulls power when in the OFF mode, now thats a waste.

Incandecent bulbs are probalby pretty low on the waste of energy scale when you really look at the whole shebang, considering that they should only really be on when needed. and off like 80% of the time. 

and there's always the fact that if we make more energy efficient bulbs, people will just use more lights...

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=e-LOtKIIKcg

Carl /KPD

Excellent Youtube link, Carl. Many thanks.

CFLs don't last in my house.  Don't know why. Ordinart flourescents no problem. They also are buzzy RF wise.  Could be my house wiring or something.

The first CFL I used was noisy as hell. The next one, not a bit. There was a post on one of the lists a few months back on which ones were good, which ones to avoid. Not that I can remember.

One thing CFLs do NOT like is being used in an enclosed fixture. I have some old schoolhouse hanging lights, used one in the kitchen for years. Decided to replace the 150w bulb with a CFL. It was toast in a coupla weeks. Stupid me, I tried it again.

This seems to be size/heat related, though. A smaller bulb in another enclosed lamp gives no problems.

Read an article a week or so back about CFLs causing nasty sleep problems. Seems the wavelength or brightness emitted doesn't allow your body to wind down properly late in the evening and instead makes it think it's time to go, go, go. Methinks more study and knowledge should go into decisions made for 'the good of all' by our congress.

I agree with saving energy, it's the "silver bullet" mentality that I have a hard time with. One size doesn't fit all and never will. Import better ethanol from Brazil is an example. Problem is, Brazil is cutting down rain forest to make more farmland. Rain forest = Ma Earth's lungs. What happened to saving the rain forest?

There's no simple answer, and CFLs are merely another example of that. They have their place, they certainly can help, they're just not the entire answer. Common sense overrules even my Scottish nature of being..thrifty.

In the end, there's only one real answer to climate change: ADAPT. Even if we could somehow slow the natural process, it would be only slightly, and it would be at enormous human and monetary expense.

Adapt or go the way of the dinosaurs.

[k4kyv]

I'm stocking up on all the low-efficiency "long life" bulbs I can find.  The other day I checked out the local Habitat for Humanity thrift store and they had a bunch of 100 watters for 25¢ each.  I bought $2 worth, and next time I'm in that part of town will probably buy more.

CFL's don't work for such things as heat sources and current limiting resistors, for which I use them all the time.  A series bulb is particularly useful for testing or figuring out a transformer when using a 110v source.  I use only incandescents in the shack, but use quite a few CFL's in the house.

One thing I don't like about CFL's is the time delay before the light comes on.  I have one in an enclosed light fixture in the kitchen ceiling fan, and it has run for over a year now with no problem.  Some give out a light that looks to me to be identical to that of an incandescent, but others give out a very annoying bluish light that looks more like light from a full moon.

Actually, incandescents do not radiate heat.  They radiate light, most of which is in the invisible infra-red range.  When light is absorbed by matter, the matter heats up.  Visible light has just as much heating effect as infra-red.  The only difference is you can see it.  CFL's radiate  proportionally less light to their lower energy use.  They are more "efficient" because nearly all the light they do radiate is in the visible range.  If our eyes responded to infra-red, incandescents would be just as efficient as CFL's.   The warmth we feel from the sun is from the heating effect of visible light, since the atmosphere filters out nearly all the infra-red energy radiated directly from the sun.

[WA1GFZ]

Steve LEDs are the way to go.
normal lamps heat a room very well in the fall before the heat needs to come on. Having used your insulation method in the new QTH and took it a step further with R25 unfaced between the studs the house stays nice and cool during the day. A couple weeks ago I thought it was chilly out so went around and closed the windows. A few minutes later I went outside to cut the lawn and cooked in the sun.
All the poor people out there without super insulation are going to feel the pain this coming winter. Double walls will rule. Many of my friends thought I was crazy when I double walled the old QTH in the 80s. The thought of losing 4 inches of floor space on each wall, oh my.

[Carl WA1KPD]

Frank,

I saw our friend the hawk on the light pole on RTE 20 today