The death of the flea market

[k4kyv]

I always get a kick out of looking at early hamfest photos from the 1920/30s. No one wears a suit and tie any longer to the hamfests, or takes along the good wife Mabel, but in some way the hamfests are returning to their roots as a social event. Take a look at the early events, looks like a formal wedding or black tie event, with speakers and a large banquet!

Hamfests (I'm not sure when that term first appeared), or amateur radio conventions in those days were something completely different from to-day's hamfests, or at least hamfests as we like to  remember them.  Remember, back then radio was still in its infancy.  Technology was advancing very rapidly during that period, and there wasn't a lot of interest in "old" or "used" stuff.  In 1932, amateur phone stations were just discovering class B audio and 100% modulation.  Broadcast radio was only about a decade old.  About the only "old" stuff that hams would have had around to get rid of, that they weren't still using, would have been what was truly obsolete, like old spark gear, self-excited oscillator transmitters and one tube regenerative receivers.  Even those consisted of usable parts that were too valuable to discard.

With the onset of the Great Depression, commodities on hand became valuable and people held on to and made do with what they had.  Few licensed hams had those beautiful Collins rack-mounted transmitters, HRO receivers, and homebrew rigs in 6' black wrinkle cabinets filled with broadcast quality components, that we like to admire when we  look over the old photos in RADIO and QST.  Most hams were  struggling to get a QRP station going built from old broadcast radio parts, with many of the basic components homebrewed from scratch using whatever household scrap that was to be found.  A handful of used 1920's vintage components would have been pure gold, because nearly every item could be re-used for building something better than what it was salvaged from.  Those who went through the Depression never threw away anything.  People had to recycle just about everything for basic survival.

In those pre-War days, people didn't go to a hamfest with the idea of finding bargains, nostalgia rigs to restore, used parts for homebrewing, etc.  They attended amateur radio "conventions" where hams got together for the social aspect, and to visit technical forums to learn about the latest developments in radio, such as the superheterodyne receiver, the stable crystal oscillator and the latest in antenna design.  Usually, these were suit-and-tie affairs.  Even the Dayton Hamvention started out in 1952 as one of those dress-up conventions at a downtown hotel.  Only later did it move to HARA to become the world's largest radio flea market.

The flea market oriented hamfest was basically a 1950's phenomenon, triggered by the super abundance of war surplus.  You could order 304TL's from some of the stores along Radio Row on Cortlandt Street for less than $1 apiece, and BC-348's for $50 each unused. At the first hamfests I attended, I didn't see any 1930s' HRO's or Super Pro's  for  sale at give-away prices.  You wouldn't find $10 kilowatt modulation transformers and plate transformers.  That kind of stuff commanded premium prices because, even though it was becoming "old", it was still widely used and considered valuable for what it was, and therefore highly sought-after.  The "bargains", whether sold at hamfests or by commercial vendors, lay in the WW2 surplus.  The surge in new licensees resulting from the creation of the Novice licence created a demand for abundant sources of low-cost parts and equipment, and ham radio magazines became filled with ads from Radio Row.

It was only after the amateur radio community swallowed a bill of goods that was foisted upon them as the SSB era began to take hold, and let themselves be convinced that the "old stuff" was worthless and that the future was with Hotwater rigs, Swans, Galaxies and similar low quality transceivers, later to be replaced by "Jap Crap", that "goodies" at giveaway prices became abundant at fleamarkets.  This got into full swing in about 1963, and probably hit its peak in the period from 1968 to 1973.  Remember, that was the era when AM was supposed to be "dead", when you could buy DX-100's for $25 and Rangers for $50 or less.  Big triode tubes were going for less than $5 n.i.b. because they wouldn't make good "linears". Many hams were convinced that they needed to unload the old heavy stuff while they could still get at least a little something for it.

While most hams were trying to unload the "boatanchors" and sold the stuff for almost nothing, if they weren't giving it away or simply taking it to the dump, I was accumulating every piece I could get my hands on, often driving to hamfests as far away as Chicago, loading my 1962 Plymouth (one of those old tanks that took up 2 spaces to park tailfins and all, and whose trunk would hold more than you could cram into a modern day compact size pick-up) till it was practically dragging the ground.  Other attendees at hamfests used to laugh at me when they saw me lugging heavy transformers or old pieces of homebrew gear back to the car.

But during those years I managed to accumulate enough stuff to literally have my own private radio warehouse.  Now, while many would-be homebrewers are thwarted by the lack of parts, I have enough stuff that I could probably keep my present station going for the next 50 years without buying another single item,  if I had to.  I think it was I who had the last laugh.

But so many of us spent our formative years of amateur radio during that era, and let the abundance of stuff at near giveaway prices spoil us, so we never prepared for the day when those sources would dry up.

[k4kyv]

And more...

[Pete, WA2CWA]

But during those years I managed to accumulate enough stuff to literally have my own private radio warehouse.  Now, while many would-be homebrewers are thwarted by the lack of parts, I have enough stuff that I could probably keep my present station going for the next 50 years without buying another single item,  if I had to.  I think it was I who had the last laugh.

Probably only if you can last the next 50 years.

Stuff is stuff; after 25 years, I got tired of looking at all the stuff around here that I might use in the future, and just dumped the majority of it. Still have more move out.

[k4kyv]

I never seem to throw anything out that I don't have the inevitable need for within 2 weeks.  So I long ago stopped throwing out anything that might be useful.  If I don't use it someone else might, or it will at least make trading material.  Anything that leaves my place for the dump is rubbish.

IMO, way too much usable stuff goes to the dump every day.

Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

[w3jn]

Some mighty cool stuff, Don!  THat is one neat old buzzard fridge with the condenser coil on top, and I love the bigassed oil cap

[k4kyv]

Unfortunately, the compressor in the circa 1930 G-E Monitor Top fridge blew a seal a couple of years ago and it no longer cools.  For a long time that was my beer cooler.  It's too nice a piece to toss out, so I just use it to store more junk in.  I have no inclination to try repairing it since the refrigerant is sulphur dioxide.  Maybe some day I'll run across a professional who would be willing to tackle the job, or else someone will swap something that I want/need for it.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Use to adhere to that philosophy back in the old days, but now I adhere to "out of sight; out of mind".

I've had to help purge several estates over the last several years that adhered to your philosophy. Stuff went to flea markets, the dump, and electronic equipment re-cycling.

[n1exi]

Last October at Deerfield, was one of the best ham/flea markets I've attended in recent years. Drudged up the stuff, packaged it in a pile that only a ham can commit to discern, and found that even though the rain was pouring, and I was set in a setting only swines would find comfort, sales were made.
Way too much fun!!!
Greg, n1exi

[n2bix]

Don , did you know that GE had a clock made of cast iron in the form of that refrigerator that was given out as a promotion with the sale of those refrigerators? I know because my grandmother had the refrigerator and the clock. I wish i had that clock today ,i love old stuff like that. I love flea markets and went to my first in years in NJ last weekend . Very low turnout and only about 9 vendors. I bought a tube list with me however and was able to obtain many spare tubes for my classic gear at $1 each and some origional manuals for $5 or less each .I go to the flea to rummage through everything and i buy whatever suits my eye. I don't haggle at all ,if i don't like the price ,i may ask the vendor if i buy a few things will he make me a package deal. I have never been refused when i do this and i find that most people really like this approach and are more than generous in their discount. I look for parts ,connectors,classic rigs,etc and usually have a needs list that i try to fill. I am looking forward to the Hamfest in Toms River this weekend on Saturday. Still need some things.6DQ6 tubes , 100kc crystal for starters . Its sad to hear people talking about the silent keys who always made the hamfest and are no longer there and i think that has a lot to do with the hamfests demise. A lot of the real builders are dying off and many of the newer hams mostly buy and operate their rigs without as much building involved.I am really getting into repairing and operating my old rigs and hamfests are essential to that end.

[K1MVP]

The best conversations have come from the old sages who were there - military vets, old guys who built the stuff in the 30s-40s, former big names in the world of amateur radio and so on. The things these guys can tell you... absolutely amazing.

Interesting you mentioned the "military vets" of years ago,--I was just speaking with a friend and(a ham)
since 1955 who was an electronics instructor in the Air Force back in the mid to late 50`s and when I
mentioned T-368, and R390, he just laughed,--his attitude was they were "ok in their day", but their
day has come and gone --"BIG, HEAVY, and a PAIN" to work on (is what he told me).

Having spent a few years in the military also(20 plus years) I tend to agree.

As far as accumulating "junk",--I have more than enough(although no where near) what many guys
have,--I am "pushing the envelope"  as far as the XYL is concerned, so I would rather limit
myself rather than file for a divorce.

The more "stuff I get will just be more "junk" for her to get rid of, for the "vultures" when I exit this life.
                                       
                                                    73, K1MVP
 

[N3DRB The Derb]

thats the sad reality - if you keep it until you are gone, there's more than even chance yr gear will wind up in the dumpster. widows and real estate agents want the house and property cleaned of "junk" ASAP, and none of it means anything to them.



 

[k4kyv]

thats the sad reality - if you keep it until you are gone, there's more than even chance yr gear will wind up in the dumpster. widows and real estate agents want the house and property cleaned of "junk" ASAP, and none of it means anything to them.

I have seen a couple of cases where I could believe that when the ham died, his widow immediately called for help to get the radio stuff off the premises, and once it was all safely gone, she then called the undertaker to remove the body.

In one such case, the place where Roger, N4IBF (now also SK) picked up his BC-610, the dingbat son-in-law had moved all the radio equipment and stored it away in an old warehouse with a leaky roof.  Probably a couple of dozen 1930's "tombstone" broadcast radios had been stacked up like concrete blocks to hold up doors that were serving as shelves to hold other stuff.  The humidity in the place had caused all the veneer to peel off the wooden cabinets.  We found several garbage bags filled with 1920's and 1930's QST's and RADIO's, but water had leaked into the bags and saturated the contents until there was nothing left but solid blocks of pulp.  Luckily, the BC-610  had happened to land in a dry spot.

People who knew the old man remembered that he always took extreme pride in his radio magazine collection and that they were all in like new condition before the moron moved them out of the house, but the wife "hated radio" and wanted all the stuff out of there.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Last October at Deerfield, was one of the best ham/flea markets I've attended in recent years. Drudged up the stuff, packaged it in a pile that only a ham can commit to discern, and found that even though the rain was pouring, and I was set in a setting only swines would find comfort, sales were made.
Way too much fun!!!

Greggie! It was great seeing you there selling, and yes - rain or shine, Deerfield/NEAR-Fest proves beyond a doubt that the people make the event, and will participate because they enjoy it, not because it's a beautiful day. Many folks have commented on the amount and quality of stuff showing up there compared to recent years elsewhere. My guess is that some folks who used to enjoy the experience of selling and hamfesting decided it was a good time to get back to basics, at the same time shedding the hassles of online sales, shipping, damage, dishonest dealings and so on. Sure - you can still get the occasional slimebag at a 'fest (many of us recognize them on sight), but it's far easier to hide online than in a setting surrounded by curious and critical eyes.

when I mentioned T-368, and R390, he just laughed,--his attitude was they were "ok in their day", but their day has come and gone --"BIG, HEAVY, and a PAIN" to work on (is what he told me).

Having spent a few years in the military also(20 plus years) I tend to agree.

Different strokes, Rene. I had a grandfather who detested that old wooden furniture he grew up with, but loved the new vinyl and chrome, polyester and foam, etc furniture of the 50s-60s. People are actually starting to pay real money for that stuff now also, but antique furniture has always had its following.

Also, folks who do things for a living tend to enjoy the challenge more than the stuff. I really like the KWT-6/URC-32 transceiver in my radio room, whereas techs who had to maintain the equipment regularly tend to say horrible stuff about them. Maybe if I'd had to deal with them as a daily requirement, I'd feel the same way.

As far as accumulating "junk",--I have more than enough(although no where near) what many guys
have,--I am "pushing the envelope"  as far as the XYL is concerned, so I would rather limit
myself rather than file for a divorce.

The more "stuff I get will just be more "junk" for her to get rid of, for the "vultures" when I exit this life.

Gee whiz! Whatever happened to 'compromise' in marriage? 

Simple answer to the vulture issue: deal with it now. Put your friends to work for you in the event of an untimely demise. Many of us have a list of friends with callsign, address, phone numbers, and so on for just such a situation. Recently updated mine. Pick 2-3 folks whose knowledge as well as integrity you trust, work a reciprocal deal to do the same for them or not, whatever works. Then proceed with life and enjoy the ebb and flow of 'stuff' in and out of the station, knowing that you're covered if something happens.

[K3ZS]

I regret giving away a lot of old ham equipment, and recently paying a lot more to get the same type of  stuff back.  I don't throw anything away now.   A few years ago a local ham, who was well off and owned about every piece of ham gear ever made, passed away.   His widow donated it all to the local ham club.  A few of the officers of the club recognized the value and sold a lot of it on ebay.   The radio parts, and other less valuable items were sold at
at several ham oriented garage sales for local club members.   I picked up a lot of parts that the two-meter types had no idea what they were.    If I kick the bucket I will try to have the same thing done with my stuff.   My kids will probably put it in a dumpster.

[k4kyv]

I picked up a lot of parts that the two-meter types had no idea what they were.    If I kick the bucket I will try to have the same thing done with my stuff.   My kids will probably put it in a dumpster.

That's what my daughter would probably do, but I think my son has an appreciation for that kind of stuff and would try to find it a home where someone would appreciate it.  He has, or is in the process of restoring two 60's vintage cars, one of which belonged to his grandmother.  He has just signed papers on a house, and one of his friends has given him a Hunter ceiling fan, with a real cast iron motor and oil reservoir.  He found a half dozen old ones in a cellar and gave them to me because he knew I would be interested and he recognised a fan with a real motor, versus the cheap and not-so-cheap junk from Asia that is sold to-day, with a little sealed motor the size of your fist and a fake housing to make it resemble what the fan motors used to look like.  He also takes interest in some of the restoration projects I am doing on our house, which was built sometime in 1850-70.

About 20 years ago the wife of Bob Parmentier, W9WT, who had been the station operator and chief lab tech at ARRL HQ back when it was W1MK (before it became W1AW), contacted me and Roger, N4IBF (SK) and informed us that her husband had gone into a nursing home in his mid 80's with Alzheimer's, and she needed some help in disposing of his radio stuff.  She said he didn't recognise her and didn't even remember anything about amateur radio.

We took a trip up there, along with Mike, NI4N (now W4AEE), to southern Indiana, and found two buildings full of stuff some of which dated back as far as the early 30's, including a homebrew plate modulated AM kilowatt transmitter.  The rest of the place was  loaded with tubes and parts.  She gave it all to us for hauling away.  She told us that some local "ham radio club" types had agreed to help her sell his 75A-4, HT-37 and some kind of slopbucket transceiver he was using, but told her that the rest was "junk", that nobody was interested in that old stuff any more, and that the best thing she could do would be to have someone with a truck to haul it all to the dump.

Fortunately, none of the club members were interested in the task, and she got in touch with us before finding someone.  That place was a  real treasure trove and I still have a lot of my share of the stuff.  That's the place where I literally mined almost a dozen VT4-C/211's out of the ground, where the floor had rotted and the tubes, still n.i.b. had fallen to the ground, and the cartons had rotted along with the remains of the floor, burying them in about 2" of topsoil.  All but one of the tubes was perfectly good after I had cleaned up the corrosion.

It took us a total of 3 trips to Indiana and one round trip with a U-haul trailer to get it all down to middle TN.

[K1MVP]

Different strokes, Rene. I had a grandfather who detested that old wooden furniture he grew up with, but loved the new vinyl and chrome, polyester and foam, etc furniture of the 50s-60s. People are actually starting to pay real money for that stuff now also, but antique furniture has always had its following.

Also, folks who do things for a living tend to enjoy the challenge more than the stuff. I really like the KWT-6/URC-32 transceiver in my radio room, whereas techs who had to maintain the equipment regularly tend to say horrible stuff about them. Maybe if I'd had to deal with them as a daily requirement, I'd feel the same way.

Gee whiz! Whatever happened to 'compromise' in marriage? 

I have found that(IMO) that most ex veterans(including myself) do not have the "love affair" with old
military stuff, as when we worked on it ,--it was a JOB to get done to maintain a mission,(simple as that).
The avionics had to get fixed for the aircraft to fly, period--in my case it was F-102`s, F-4`s(a dog to
work on) and F-16`s in my latter years.

As a ham, the last thing I wanted to see was a KWM-2, an R-390 or other "military unit".
It was refreshing to use commercial equipment that did not weigh a ton and was built to be dropped
from a truck.

As far as compromise in marriage,--after 37 years, and three kids later,--I think my XYL well knows
the art of "giving" and "compromise", especially living with me.--She is and has been a "gem" to put
up with the likes of me for the past 37 years.
                                               
                                                  73, Rene, K1MVP
     

[WA1GFZ]

Gee, My XYL would rather me in the shack playing radio than out on the street.
I have found Mil Gear from the 80s better built and easier to get parts for repairs. KWM2 is a HOS layout
WOW URC32

[k4kyv]

Whenever my wife used to start bitching about radio, I always reminded her that she knew about the radio long before we were married, and that radio was part of the package deal.

She stopped griping about radio when I finally moved all the stuff to my separate detached ham shack, and one could actually walk across the floor in the upstairs room once again, and I was able to remove the post from the middle of the dining room that had been supporting the tons of stuff in the loft overhead threatening to cause the ceiling to collapse.

[ka3zlr]

Down through the years I've had some great finds at some great fleas, and Festers...watched alot of them disappear too, around my area..shame...on one compromise that is the state of a working marriage at least in our case...we debated on building a new house compared to buying this old farm house...have many friends with homes that look like museums...wonderful looking homes...but they can't walk outside in their boxers and get their mail like i can...it's a trade off i guess...we like the room and the peace and quiet...housing groups was not on our agenda.....but the upgrades were a challenge..

I miss all the little radio fleas that used to be around Pittsburgh...

[n2bix]

I went to the Jersey shore ARA hamfest on April 12th. Very few vendors and one of them was from the previous weeks hamfest. Very low turnout of sellers ,but plenty of buyers. I got my 6dq6 tube that i needed plus a lot of other tubes that were on my list ,but it seems the days of getting the parts i need at a hamfest may be in the past. I am reserving judgement until the Bergen ARA hamfest in washington township on the 31st of May. If that one was like these last 2 their is little reason to go. I was very much saddened by the passge of Radio row in NY many years ago ,and it looks like the hamfests are the next victim.I hope not. I had my "ritual" coffee and hot dogs of course ,like i always do!Randy

[k4kyv]

I was very much saddened by the passge of Radio row in NY many years ago

Poetic justice: 11SE01

[n2bix]

Yes it is Don , thats for sure ! Randy

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I went to the Jersey shore ARA hamfest on April 12th. Very few vendors and one of them was from the previous weeks hamfest. Very low turnout of sellers ,but plenty of buyers. I got my 6dq6 tube that i needed plus a lot of other tubes that were on my list ,but it seems the days of getting the parts i need at a hamfest may be in the past. I am reserving judgement until the Bergen ARA hamfest in washington township on the 31st of May. If that one was like these last 2 their is little reason to go. I was very much saddened by the passge of Radio row in NY many years ago ,and it looks like the hamfests are the next victim.I hope not. I had my "ritual" coffee and hot dogs of course ,like i always do!Randy

The BARA hamfest, if the weather is good, is always a great hamfest. Likewise, the Piscataway hamfest (aka the old Dunellen hamfest) in June and the Sussex hamfest in July, always seems to bring a lot of vendors. The Warminster hamfest (Newtown, PA) on May 5th, also draws in a lot of vendors.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

I think the demise of most hamfests is a good thing. There were far too many and they were nothing more than commercial events centered totally on money. Hamfests were originally a social event where humans actually interacted face-to-face without money as the impetus. But in the 50's, hamfests began a long decline where it became all about getting a good deal and less about socializing with other hams. The more the money driven fests fade away, the better off we'll be.

[W3RSW]

Steve, I sort of agree about the socializing aspect of the old fests but also have always enjoyed the myrad of parts, junque and stuff available at large 'commercial' fests.  Good deals and real finds seem to be a function of attendence, all other things being equal.  But then again at the older fests, real hams just brought each other 'sumpin' to make the trips worthwhile.  We "in the fraternity" at least continue a lot of that.

I would, if closer, like to just socialize, break a little bread, or down a rock or two with like minded AM'ers but as you know they're hard to find in the sticks.  OTH there are numerous benefits in being out of the rat race (particularly traffic) of the big East.

I sure don't envy anyone trying to go east/west on I-64 in anything approaching beach or colonial W'mmsburg season.  Virginia is having a very tough time breaching the envir. wacko's in attempting to build additional lanes on '64 and -81.  I think they've given up on '95.

Other than all that, heh heh, you live in Paradise.