Paul Tibbets Jr. Dead at 92

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

A true patriot. They aren't making many like him anymore.

http://dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2007/11/02/tibbets.ART_ART_11-02-07_A1_L48BME5.html?sid=101

[The Slab Bacon]

 Truely a man that shaped history! He saved countless thousands of American lives. A true American Hero!! May God bless him in his passage!!

                                        The Slab Bacon

[WA1GFZ]

This was a guy who probably didn't have any idea he would become an American hero at the time. Greatness thrusted upon him.
But then all of the thousands of B24, B25, B17, B29 riders are heros in my book.
Imagine the shock wave hitting the plane.....I guess his dose was pretty small..

[KB2WIG]

Interesting interview with Studs Terkel and Brigadier General Paul Tibbets

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,769634,00.html

..............  klc

[W2XR]

Truely a man that shaped history! He saved countless thousands of American lives. A true American Hero!! May God bless him in his passage!!

                                        The Slab Bacon

Yes, I completely agree. And I also agree with Frank, WA1GFZ, in that all of the pilots who flew the Flying Fortresses, etc., were and are heros as well.

Tibbets was a man who did his job and never had any regrets about what he did, and in the process, saved an untold number of American as well as Japanese lives.

A little known fact; Tibbets requested that his remains be cremated, as he was fearful that his grave would become a magnet to those who disagreed with the U.S. position via-a-vis  dropping the bomb on Japan, and he feared his grave would be continually desecrated in retaliation.

73,

Bruce

[w3jn]

He was a true hero, a man who shunned publicity, and always said he was just doing his job. 

The book "Enola Gay" has a great recital of the challenges he had assembling and training the 509th Composite Group.  This dude was definitely "no-nonsense"!!

[N2udf]

Yes,He was a true"get 'er done" patriot.When I retired my crew got me a wood model B-29 autographed by Paul Tibbets.I'm sure that all know Astabula Bill was a pilot during the "Big One".I stand in awe of all those heroes.Lee,N2UDF.

[W3SLK]

My mom grew up and went to school with Ted Van Kirk. He graduated from Northumberland High School. She says he was a decent person. I would have like to meet him. I agree we what Ted and what Paul Tibbets said in reference to dropping the bomb. That more lives would have been shed had we not done it. It was the right thing to do!

[w3bv]

According to Ted ("Dutch") Van Kirk, the best book ever written about Paul Tibbets and the Enola Gay was Bob Greene's book "Duty." The book gives real insight into the motivation and dedication of Tibbets and his generation.

[W1QWT]

A fellow ham sent me the following link to a news story about Tibbets.
http://www.heraldtribune.com:80/article/20071103/OPINION/711030551/1029
In this the guys says:

A tragedy avoided a catastrophe


Regarding the death of Brig. Gen. Paul Tibbets Jr.:

I worked for him for over a year on the B-47 jet bomber project. I later helped him set up his ham radio station in his home at MacDill Air Force Base. I found him to be a perfectionist -- but also a quiet, competent and caring officer who knew war; he flew a B-17 combat tour and was wounded over Germany.

He was the ideal officer for the momentous task of ending the war by dropping the first atomic bomb on Aug. 6, 1945. I hope Paul rests in peace.

Detractors do not consider that the invasion of Japan was already massing and would take place in less than three months. The first assault was to be Oct. 27 and a larger one on Kyushu on Nov. 1. Our own leaders expected a million or more U.S. casualties and tens of millions of Japanese in the fight to the death. Japan had 12,725 planes ready to be used as suicide bombs against our fleet.

The National Archives recently released the entire "Top Secret" official invasion documents from the U.S. and Japan. Go to any search engine and type in "Operation Downfall" and read the actual plans. The atomic bomb was a tragedy that avoided a catastrophe and the biggest blood bath in history. Even after the first bomb, the Japanese swore to fight to the last person for the emperor. The second bomb ended the war.

Clyde L. Mings

The writer is a retired chief master sergeant with the U.S. Air Force. He resides in Sarasota.


Last modified: November 03. 2007 12:00AM

Regarding the death of Brig. Gen. Paul Tibbets Jr.:I worked for him for over a year on the B-47 jet bomber project. I later helped him set up his ham radio station in his home at MacDill Air F . . .
For free access to this article, you must be a member of HeraldTribune.com.

 Join today
Create an account

Signing up takes just a few moments. Personal information will not be shared or sold to any vendors.

 
Already a member? Login now

If you already have an account, simply login below.

   E-mail 
Password 
   Remember my ID and password on this computer.
   

Anybody else hear that Tibbets was a HAM?

Regards
Q, W1QWT

[W2XR]

A fellow ham sent me the following link to a news story about Tibbets.
http://www.heraldtribune.com:80/article/20071103/OPINION/711030551/1029
In this the guys says:

A tragedy avoided a catastrophe


Regarding the death of Brig. Gen. Paul Tibbets Jr.:

I worked for him for over a year on the B-47 jet bomber project. I later helped him set up his ham radio station in his home at MacDill Air Force Base. I found him to be a perfectionist -- but also a quiet, competent and caring officer who knew war; he flew a B-17 combat tour and was wounded over Germany.

He was the ideal officer for the momentous task of ending the war by dropping the first atomic bomb on Aug. 6, 1945. I hope Paul rests in peace.

Detractors do not consider that the invasion of Japan was already massing and would take place in less than three months. The first assault was to be Oct. 27 and a larger one on Kyushu on Nov. 1. Our own leaders expected a million or more U.S. casualties and tens of millions of Japanese in the fight to the death. Japan had 12,725 planes ready to be used as suicide bombs against our fleet.

The National Archives recently released the entire "Top Secret" official invasion documents from the U.S. and Japan. Go to any search engine and type in "Operation Downfall" and read the actual plans. The atomic bomb was a tragedy that avoided a catastrophe and the biggest blood bath in history. Even after the first bomb, the Japanese swore to fight to the last person for the emperor. The second bomb ended the war.

Clyde L. Mings

The writer is a retired chief master sergeant with the U.S. Air Force. He resides in Sarasota.


Last modified: November 03. 2007 12:00AM

Regarding the death of Brig. Gen. Paul Tibbets Jr.:I worked for him for over a year on the B-47 jet bomber project. I later helped him set up his ham radio station in his home at MacDill Air F . . .
For free access to this article, you must be a member of HeraldTribune.com.

 Join today
Create an account

Signing up takes just a few moments. Personal information will not be shared or sold to any vendors.

 
Already a member? Login now

If you already have an account, simply login below.

   E-mail 
Password 
   Remember my ID and password on this computer.
   

Anybody else hear that Tibbets was a HAM?

Regards
Q, W1QWT

No, I never heard this, but his one-time commanding officer, Gen. Curtis LeMay, certainly was. This is fairly well known within amateur radio circles.

73,

Bruce

[WA1GFZ]

my Dad's job was to drive a landing craft to the beach....sure glad they dropped the bombs.

[W1QWT]

One of my friends found him in an old call book.
He was a general class licensee.

K4ZVZ   PAUL W TIBBETS                       
           3614 NE 17TH LN                       Born: 2/23/15
           OCALA, FL  32670                      Licn: 5/17/88 G
                                                         Expn: 5/17/98

Regards
Q, W1QWT

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Interesting program on one of the History Channels last night dealing with 'The Final Misson' of B-29 bombers into Japan after the 2 nukes had been dispatched and Japan still hadn't surrendered. I'd seen it before but always find it interesting that a group of Japanese Army officers had seized the Imperial Palace, taken the Emperor prisoner, and were determined to keep Japan from surrendering in order to force the Allies into one final battle with the invasion. They attempted to grab the surrender recordings made earlier to prevent their broadcast, but were impeded by a power outage.

The Army eventually took the palace back, but we were much closer to a bloodbath than the revisionists would have you believe. Most don't know there was a third bomb en route, either. Made it as far as the docks in California before the surrender was announced.

I'm glad for your dad too, Frank - and all the others who were spared. And immensely thankful for their service, sacrifice, and contribution to this fine country.

 

[WA1GFZ]

My Dad's older brother was a Marine from Iwo. Good chance he would have been riding in the landing boats.
Good thing neither bomb was a dud. You would have to be crazy to want a third nuke......might have been even bigger.

[K3ZS]

My dad was getting winter clothing while in the South Pacific.    Thanks to the bomb, he never needed it for the invasion.
One of the few things he ever told me about his war experience.

[WB2EMS]

My dad said when the end of the war came he was in the southwest training as part of an aerial strike force to do low altitude firebombing of the Japanese homeland to burn the major cities to the ground similar to what was done to Dresden. Supposedly the Japanese style of building and the closeness of their structures would make it an even better target for incendiary devices. He said it was a volunteer mission, prior to that he had been a bombardier and radar operator on B24's on shore patrol on the east coast chasing and sinking German submarines. He only talked about that training once when we were talking about the atomic bomb when I was just entering my teens and interested in nuclear technology. I thought the bombs had been a bad thing, like most of my peers, until he gave me some insight into what it had meant to those who were fighting the war at the time. But for the Bomb, he might well have not made it back and I wouldn't be here.

When I look back at the equipment they built, the mammoth systems and projects they undertook, and the work and sacrifices they made I just stand in awe of our parents generation. And then I look at us today with our industrial base gone, and once proud companies like HP and Motorola who were giants in the world of technology, now reduced to hollow shells by the bean counters running them and I'm just sick. We're eating our seed corn. I don't know what the fix is, but we can't keep going on like we have been.

[W1QWT]

My uncle was on a Navy battleship that was sunk off the Phillipines.
He made it ashore and took up with a marine detachment. They were
captured and he was in the Batan march.
He spent some years in a Japanese prision camp and told me horror
stories about the conditions and the torture.
When he got back from the war he was never quite right although he was a fun guy
to his nephews. The government put him on full disability and he never worked again.
Unfortunately he died 2 years ago in Florida and his 2nd wife never put anything in his obit
about his Batan Death March.

Regards
Q
W1QWT

[WA1GFZ]

my Father in law's buddy was in Batan two nukes were not enough
to even that score.

[w3jn]

Bataan was a horror.  Many of those that survived the deathmarch were then shoved into the hold of a freighter and shipped off to Japan for slave labor. 

Then there were the atrocities inflicted upon the civilians by japanese soldiers.  When I lived in the Philippines we had an old buzzard maid that told us many horrible stories about what she endured as a girl at the hands of the Japanese..  She was 10-12 years old at the time, and was imprisoned because her father was a member of the resistance...

I am of firm believe that dropping the bombs and ending the war saved countless lives and forestalled a huge amount of human suffering.

Here is an outstanding account of the experiences of Dutch, British, American, and Australian POWs at the hand of Japan, including a horrifying account of the Bataan Death March: 

http://www.amazon.com/Prisoners-Japanese-Pows-World-Pacific/dp/0688143709

[WA1GFZ]

John,
My Father in Law's friend was 17 when he went through it. He faked his birth records to get in. He goes to schools and tells his story.

On the other hand my daughter has a friend who's grandmother was near ground zero and still alive today to talk about it.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

The Japanese reluctance in surrender was because the U.S. was insisting that the surrender be unconditional. The Japanese knew they were defeated but were holding out for terms instead of unconditional surrender. Even Curtis LeMay admitted that his firebombing raids on Japan might have been considered a 'war crime' if the U.S. had been the losers of WWII.

A popular story, but only partially true. The Japanese did want to keep their Emperor, which the term 'unconditional' seemed to rule out. More importantly, there was a strong movement within the military from Tojo down the line to resist surrender at any cost. Dishonor, hope for a turnaround, whatever. All bets were off until the nukes started to fall, and even afterwards some of the military tried to keep the war going. They had thousands of aircraft, Bakka bombs, kaiten, and other weapons hidden in caves, preparing for the invasion. Not something you do if you're looking to surrender months before the war actually ended.

Here's a snippit from a review on Amazon:

Japan's surrender looks something like this: Emperor Hirohito, persuaded by the American atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and by the active imprecations of some of his cabinet ministers, decides to surrender and place his nation at the mercy of the Allies. A small cadre of junior officers simply cannot face the idea of surrender and begin a plot to undermine Hirohito's plan. Their goal: destroy the recordings of Hirohito's surrender set to be broadcast, isolate the emperor with local troops and proclaim that the civilians who counseled the emperor were traitors. They expect the armed forces to flock to their side and launch an all-out kamikaze attack on the approaching Americans.

http://www.amazon.com/Last-Mission-Secret-History-Battle/dp/0767907787

The fire bombing campaign came well before Hiroshima (purposely left untouched along with Nagasaki, Kobe, and a couple other cities) and did cause a lot of damage. Even today, most folks aren't aware that more people died in the fire bombing of Tokyo than in either of the Atomic bombs. But area bombing didn't break the Japanese anymore than it did the Germans, or the English before them at Coventry etc. Any criminal charge is possible from your enemies if you lose to them, regardless of what they did to provoke your response. The US could've been charged simply for attacking the Japanese homeland and killing civilians, despite the atrocities Japan had committed. We've heard a lot through the years about Dr. Mengle and the German experiments in WWII, but little about Japan's Unit 731. Their mindset then reminds me a lot of the threats we face today. Kill as many as you can, glory in death, etc etc.

The long and the short of it is, Japan had many opportunities to surrender and chose not to until the two atomic bombs were dropped. Hindsight, revisionism, whatever else doesn't change that.



 

[WA1GFZ]

That's very true Todd and those rice paper shacks burned quickly.
The government cared less about the people than we did.
They didn't get the message until we crippled the industry with the nukes.

[W3SLK]

Let us not forget the raping of Nanking!

[W2XR]

The Japanese reluctance in surrender was because the U.S. was insisting that the surrender be unconditional. The Japanese knew they were defeated but were holding out for terms instead of unconditional surrender. Even Curtis LeMay admitted that his firebombing raids on Japan might have been considered a 'war crime' if the U.S. had been the losers of WWII.

A popular story, but only partially true. The Japanese did want to keep their Emperor, which the term 'unconditional' seemed to rule out. More importantly, there was a strong movement within the military from Tojo down the line to resist surrender at any cost. Dishonor, hope for a turnaround, whatever. All bets were off until the nukes started to fall, and even afterwards some of the military tried to keep the war going. They had thousands of aircraft, Bakka bombs, kaiten, and other weapons hidden in caves, preparing for the invasion. Not something you do if you're looking to surrender months before the war actually ended.

Here's a snippit from a review on Amazon:

Japan's surrender looks something like this: Emperor Hirohito, persuaded by the American atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and by the active imprecations of some of his cabinet ministers, decides to surrender and place his nation at the mercy of the Allies. A small cadre of junior officers simply cannot face the idea of surrender and begin a plot to undermine Hirohito's plan. Their goal: destroy the recordings of Hirohito's surrender set to be broadcast, isolate the emperor with local troops and proclaim that the civilians who counseled the emperor were traitors. They expect the armed forces to flock to their side and launch an all-out kamikaze attack on the approaching Americans.

http://www.amazon.com/Last-Mission-Secret-History-Battle/dp/0767907787

The fire bombing campaign came well before Hiroshima (purposely left untouched along with Nagasaki, Kobe, and a couple other cities) and did cause a lot of damage. Even today, most folks aren't aware that more people died in the fire bombing of Tokyo than in either of the Atomic bombs. But area bombing didn't break the Japanese anymore than it did the Germans, or the English before them at Coventry etc. Any criminal charge is possible from your enemies if you lose to them, regardless of what they did to provoke your response. The US could've been charged simply for attacking the Japanese homeland and killing civilians, despite the atrocities Japan had committed. We've heard a lot through the years about Dr. Mengle and the German experiments in WWII, but little about Japan's Unit 731. Their mindset then reminds me a lot of the threats we face today. Kill as many as you can, glory in death, etc etc.

The long and the short of it is, Japan had many opportunities to surrender and chose not to until the two atomic bombs were dropped. Hindsight, revisionism, whatever else doesn't change that.
 

Todd is absolutely correct, and his detailed knowlege of the Japanese atrociites committed against the Allied powers is impressive, particularly with regard to the little-known Japanese Unit 731. This was a highly secretive operation that operated mostly in occupied China, that in some respects makes the German Dr. Josef Mengele and his band of doctor cronies look like nice guys.

Unit 731 would commit vivisections on live subjects, amputating one limb at a time until the subject died an excruciating death, with no anesthetic, strictly for the purpose of inflicting pain on the subject and with little to no derived medical value. There were experiments the Japanese performed with inflicted diseases on prisoners and members of the occupied general  population that the Americans found to be of significant medical value, and in so doing, few of the operatives (mostly medical doctors) of Unit 731 were prosecuted for war crimes and crimes against humanity, in exchange for the data and results of these experiments. This was also true of some of the Germans who also conducted medical experiments on concentration and extermination camp inmates. A lot of these people walked, because we made deals to get medical information that otherwise would have been nearly impossible to obtain in a humane fashion.

The pent-up hatred of the Americans for the Japanese, based upon Pearl Harbor, the rape of Nanking, the Bataan Death March, the St. Tomas Prison Camp in Manila, etc., etc., made the decision to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki all the more easier. And Mac's statement about more Japanese perishing in the Tokyo incindiary bombing campaign vs. the combined death toll of the A-bombings is correct as well.

Yes indeed, mans inhumanity to man will never cease to amaze. Sad but true.

73,

Bruce