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Author Topic: IARU REGION 2 MF/HF BAND PLAN, effective 01 JA 2008, would limit AM operation.  (Read 440619 times)
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AF9J
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« Reply #450 on: November 27, 2007, 08:53:40 AM »

I really don't think you stirred up any hornets nest with your e-ham post. It was one of the few that actually had sense to it. This is probably where you got the 66,000. I was going to respond to your eham post but forgot.
On November 10th, I said this: The ARRL Letter now distributes to more than 66,000 ARRL members each Friday.
On November 19th: I said this: The weekly ARRL Letter is e-mailed to over 66,000 recipients.
And the overall messages were quoted several times as participants responded to my posts.


Thanks Pete,

I posted an apology for my error, on the e-ham thread.

73,
Ellen - AF9J
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W3SLK
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« Reply #451 on: November 27, 2007, 09:08:09 AM »

Hey Ellen, at least you got a response to your letter. I got NADA. Cry As the saying goes, "The tenderest nerve is found directly behind the bullseye!"
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Mike(y)/W3SLK
Invisible airwaves crackle with life, bright antenna bristle with the energy. Emotional feedback, on timeless wavelength, bearing a gift beyond lights, almost free.... Spirit of Radio/Rush
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« Reply #452 on: November 27, 2007, 11:33:25 AM »

CQ editorial this month blasts the band plan.  "Here We Go Again", page 8, December issue.   In the opening paragraph

    " ... it (the ARRL) appears to be doing an end-run around not only its members but the FCC as well."

It goes on to say that the ARRL calls the tune at the IARU, so any "gosh look what those guys did"  is disingenuous.

I do believe the editorial misquotes President Reagan.   Wasn't it "There you go again."  not "Here we go again" ?

Jon
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« Reply #453 on: November 27, 2007, 02:12:32 PM »

CQ editorial this month blasts the band plan.  "Here We Go Again", page 8, December issue.   In the opening paragraph

    " ... it (the ARRL) appears to be doing an end-run around not only it's members but the FCC as well."

It goes on to say that the ARRL calls the tune at the IARU, so any "gosh look what those guys did"  is disingenuous.

I do believe the editorial misquotes President Reagan.   Wasn't it "There you go again."  not "Here we go again" ?

Jon

And, you believe that's all that was in error with the editorial. I suspect Rich only saw the initially released plan and not the revised plan dated October 16, 2007. Probably had printer deadlines to meet.
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Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
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« Reply #454 on: November 27, 2007, 03:31:57 PM »

Yeah, probably Shocked
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Mike(y)/W3SLK
Invisible airwaves crackle with life, bright antenna bristle with the energy. Emotional feedback, on timeless wavelength, bearing a gift beyond lights, almost free.... Spirit of Radio/Rush
Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #455 on: November 27, 2007, 03:34:44 PM »

Come on guys, it's only voluntary and the ARRL had no input. They only sent people to the meeting to work on their tans. There's nothing to worry about. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
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Tom WA3KLR
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« Reply #456 on: November 27, 2007, 03:45:17 PM »

An accurate Ronald Reagan quote to keep in mind:

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free."
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73 de Tom WA3KLR  AMI # 77   Amplitude Modulation - a force Now and for the Future!
wd8das
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« Reply #457 on: November 27, 2007, 03:54:09 PM »

Riley Hollingsworth, the FCC's Special Council for Amateur Radio Enforcement, has defined "Good Amateur Practice" to include following published bandplans.       Steve WD8DAS

From    http://ws8rm.ifip.com/goodamateur.htm

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

"Good Amateur Practice is a hard thing to define. I'd have to say it's operating with the realization that frequencies are shared, that there's going to be occasional interference and that's no reason to become hateful and paranoid. You have to
realize that more people listen than ever before, especially since the events on 11 September, and our rights end where another person's begins."

"It means giving a little ground even if you have a right not to, in order to help preserve Amateur Radio and not cause it to get a bad name or hasten the day when it becomes obsolete."

"It means not using that one Kenwood rig on 6kHz bandwidth when there are lots of people on the band."

"It means not acting like an idiot just because you were stepped on. It means being aware that we all love Amateur Radio, and why damage it just to save face?"

"It means cutting a net or a contester a break even if you don't have to and even if you have no interest whatsoever in nets or contesting."

"It means being nice, because one thing we don't need more of are idiots in the radio world.  Now this doesn't touch on a lot of technical issues such as using 1,500 watts when your signal report received is 20 over 9."

"It just means a lot of things that can't be qualified, such as respecting a band plan because it makes it possible for every mode to have a chance."

"It means operating so that if a neighbor, niece or nephew or news reporter hears you, that person is impressed with Amateur Radio."

"It means realizing that every right carries responsibilities, and just because you may have a right to do certain things doesn't mean it's right to do them in every circumstance."

"It means just because you haven't done a creative thing in Amateur Radio in 25 years, and have been on the same frequency every morning for 135 years shooting the breeze with Harry, who's 200 miles away, doesn't mean you own the frequency."

"It also means NOT operating so whoever hears you becomes sorry as hell they ever got into Amateur Radio in the first place."

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -





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KF1Z
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Are FETs supposed to glow like that?


« Reply #458 on: November 27, 2007, 04:14:07 PM »

An accurate Ronald Reagan quote to keep in mind:

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free."


Or,
"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to loose....."
JJ

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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #459 on: November 27, 2007, 07:56:53 PM »

OK Guys,

It looks like I stirred up a little bit of a Hornets Nest, when I posted on the e-Ham IARU band plan thread the e-mail I sent out.

Could you let us know the url for the e-Ham IARU band plan thread?  They have such a long, confusing list of forums that I never could find it.  The only one that seems relevant to the topic is the "Licensing" forum, but I didn't see it there.  I have seen a couple of threads on the subject on QRZ.com, but not on e-ham.

BTW, here is the CQ editorial in PDF format:

http://www.cq-amateur-radio.com/Zero_Bias_Dec07.pdf
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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AF9J
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« Reply #460 on: November 27, 2007, 08:17:45 PM »

Here it is Don,

But once you get halfway down, it degenerates into a new vs old ham radio flamefest.

http://www.eham.net/articles/18030

73,
Ellen - AF9J
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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #461 on: November 27, 2007, 08:18:56 PM »

Be prepared to laugh out loud at some of the comments.
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Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
AF9J
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« Reply #462 on: November 27, 2007, 08:24:30 PM »

Yeah Pete,

They are kind of dumb, aren't they?

73,
Ellen - AF9J
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wd8das
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« Reply #463 on: November 27, 2007, 09:29:45 PM »

Wow that eham thread is a mess!  The best comment I saw in a quick scan was

"Ham radio will survive just fine without the ARRL, as it has over the past 20 years. We simply just don't need them anymore.  73 de W4LGH - Alan"

Steve

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K6JEK
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« Reply #464 on: November 28, 2007, 02:22:53 AM »

Oof.  That thread makes me want to throw in the towel on the hobby.  Luckily, I can come back here for rejuvenation, here and on the air with a few smart, civil folks.  And, of course, I just can't stop soldering.
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ka3zlr
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« Reply #465 on: November 28, 2007, 03:40:12 AM »

Same here, i have walked away many times. Pushed it all back..went for a bike ride...or did something with the kids..walk away disgusted...then that free moment comes around and you walk over to the bench, ya i was working on that LO chain, i never did get that 1296 beacon finished..what's the latest on Downeast Microwave..etc...i don't know what's going on on HF...start turning everything on again..

I don't know what the point is behind compliant bandwidth bandplans or limiting anything, but i do know when people have a question and they're looking for stewardship from the leadership let's drop the titles and start communicating...isn't that what communicators do..

jack KA3ZLR.

 
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WA3VJB
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« Reply #466 on: November 28, 2007, 05:26:50 AM »

Jack you're right on about "titles."

I already had been thinking about how pompous and self-aggrandizing the IARU administrative structure seems, with terms like "international secretariat," and "most esteemed worthy seer and advisor" in there. OK I made up the last one, but you get the point.

The problem is that these guys get free trips to Brazil, Geneva and wherever else over the years, and make significant inroads at important places like the ITU, whose people probably don't know that it's just "hams" primarily from a little non-profit publishing group.

These has-beens or still-ares operate without supervision or guidance as they pursue their own agendas, and we are left to react to them and try to mitigate the mess they often make, as with this damn band plan.

The best we can do is see to it they are smacked down hard and publicly, as we are doing, by posting/circulating/writing as much as possible when we find it out.

As  the roach, they scatter when the lights are turned on.

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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #467 on: November 28, 2007, 11:09:03 AM »


The problem is that these guys get free trips to Brazil, Geneva and wherever else over the years, and make significant inroads at important places like the ITU, whose people probably don't know that it's just "hams" primarily from a little non-profit publishing group.

I loved being in management when I was in the corporate world. Great restaurants, great entertainment arenas (bars), great hotels, visit places that you might never get to see otherwise, etc. Life was good. Of course, some times you had to work a bit. Expense vouchers could be very creative. But we made "big" decisions and "deals" with our customers and business partners.
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« Reply #468 on: November 28, 2007, 01:58:06 PM »

I loved being in management when I was in the corporate world. Great restaurants, great entertainment arenas (bars), great hotels, visit places that you might never get to see otherwise, etc. Life was good. Of course, some times you had to work a bit. Expense vouchers could be very creative. But we made "big" decisions and "deals" with our customers and business partners.

Also explains why the 'boot' met your butt early! Sorry Pete, couldn't resist that one! Being from the same corporate world but 'in the trenches' on the maintenance side of the house made life much safer for me. We never had any fat to cut! We were considered a total loss in dollars but a necessary evil.

Mack

Ah, but what a "sweet" boot it was. I even got them for a retirement gift since on the 59th day I announced my retirement. Under my vested umbrella, I had 60 days to find a new position within the company. This isn't the thread but, sometime in the future, we can hash the perils and strategies of someone would might face a "Forced Management Process" (FMP) or the other numerous names it's known by.

Now as sole proprietor entrepreneur, this management position has it own pluses. Of course, it's a lot harder to finger-point when things don't go as expected.
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Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
ka3zlr
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« Reply #469 on: November 28, 2007, 07:56:03 PM »

Jack you're right on about "titles."

I already had been thinking about how pompous and self-aggrandizing the IARU administrative structure seems, with terms like "international secretariat," and "most esteemed worthy seer and advisor" in there. OK I made up the last one, but you get the point.

The problem is that these guys get free trips to Brazil, Geneva and wherever else over the years, and make significant inroads at important places like the ITU, whose people probably don't know that it's just "hams" primarily from a little non-profit publishing group.

These has-beens or still-ares operate without supervision or guidance as they pursue their own agendas, and we are left to react to them and try to mitigate the mess they often make, as with this damn band plan.

The best we can do is see to it they are smacked down hard and publicly, as we are doing, by posting/circulating/writing as much as possible when we find it out.

As  the roach, they scatter when the lights are turned on.




Good Evening Paul and Everyone,

 How are you Paul hows the Family OM hope all is well....I have given this some further thought today and I would like to Finish this I guess on this note,,: The Organization is Crafted to their benefit, that's a given...It Must Be Nice....um, myself i wouldn't be able to sleep at night..and my meaning is . when there is such a rift as this moving through the realm of the service, and the decisions that were made have the possibility of such serious impact to the service future, it demands explanation...Complete explanation, Not Don't worry about it....No, We are licensed with the charge of Polite Stewardship of the privilege's granted by the authorities, and this license carries with it the responsibility that each of us work towards the common good of the Service.

Evidently there are calls out there that forgo some of the originating Concepts that made the Service desirable to take part.... This League reminds me to much of what we the free are witnessing with our corporate empire, the originating Concept was Never to Reflect or adopt civilian agenda.

I am Done Paul, all I asked is Answers to the questions produced, tactful stewardship to the mass of our service, and responsible leadership....I am Not seeing it...

It looks better when we work together as one.....

Thank You OM.

jack KA3ZLR.
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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #470 on: November 28, 2007, 09:55:06 PM »

Jack you're right on about "titles."

I already had been thinking about how pompous and self-aggrandizing the IARU administrative structure seems, with terms like "international secretariat," and "most esteemed worthy seer and advisor" in there. OK I made up the last one, but you get the point.

The problem is that these guys get free trips to Brazil, Geneva and wherever else over the years, and make significant inroads at important places like the ITU, whose people probably don't know that it's just "hams" primarily from a little non-profit publishing group.

These has-beens or still-ares operate without supervision or guidance as they pursue their own agendas, and we are left to react to them and try to mitigate the mess they often make, as with this damn band plan.

The best we can do is see to it they are smacked down hard and publicly, as we are doing, by posting/circulating/writing as much as possible when we find it out.

As  the roach, they scatter when the lights are turned on.




and my meaning is . when there is such a rift as this moving through the realm of the service, and the decisions that were made have the possibility of such serious impact to the service future, it demands explanation...Complete explanation, Not Don't worry about it....No, We are licensed with the charge of Polite Stewardship of the privilege's granted by the authorities, and this license carries with it the responsibility that each of us work towards the common good of the Service.

jack KA3ZLR.

What "rift" are you referring to in your statement Jack?
And you said, "it demands explanation...Complete explanation"
What additional explanation does one need that hasn't been already documented by the ARRL President and CEO in various e-mails that are quoted in a number of pages in this thread.
We already know that the voluntary IARU band plan (or any band plan for that matter) have no legal authority over us. The FCC provides all our amateur radio rules and regulations. It was already stated by the ARRL ,when they pulled RM-11306, that they might in the future, revisit the issue of regulation by bandwidth. The ARRL President has already stated in an e-mail posted here, that the Board of Directors have no plans to bring it up as an agenda item in Jan. 2008. I see no changes to my operating patterns come 1/1/08.
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Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
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« Reply #471 on: November 28, 2007, 10:21:09 PM »

Pete said:
Quote
We already know that the voluntary IARU band plan (or any band plan for that matter) have no legal authority over us.

In the same breath, Sumner said it wasn't for us. That being the case, who was it for? And why did the ARRgghhL present it on behalf of a country other than the US?? Huh
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Mike(y)/W3SLK
Invisible airwaves crackle with life, bright antenna bristle with the energy. Emotional feedback, on timeless wavelength, bearing a gift beyond lights, almost free.... Spirit of Radio/Rush
Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #472 on: November 28, 2007, 11:56:37 PM »

Pete said:
Quote
We already know that the voluntary IARU band plan (or any band plan for that matter) have no legal authority over us.

In the same breath, Sumner said it wasn't for us. That being the case, who was it for? And why did the ARRgghhL present it on behalf of a country other than the US?? Huh

I have no idea where you got the idea the ARRL "presented it on behalf of a country other than the US"

The ARRL did not propose this plan.
In Sumner's response to AF9J and W1UX, (Reply 476), he said:
"The fact that the new  Region 2 band plan did not originate with the ARRL will be clear if you look at the Region 1 plan that was adopted in 2005. See http://www.iaru-r1.org/Spectrumbp.htm and compare it with the new Region 2 plan."

And further, the IARU said in their final report:
"the revised Region 2 band plan was modeled after the Region 1 band plan, which became effective January 2006:
http://www.iaru-r1.org/05%2010%2009%20Region%201%20HF%20Bandplan%202006%20(Amended).pdf
and further it says: "with regional differences taken into account; steps were taken to try to reduce interference to national emergency Nets, including establishing an inventory of such Nets and calling their importance to the attention of the radio amateur community"


The B/C subcommittee (Rinaldo as secretary) had the charge to model the revised Region 2 band plan to the Region 1 band plan already in existence. The secretary generally is the person who gathers all the committee member discussion input and prepares the final document for presentation to the overall IARU. In some committee circles, the secretary of the committee also does the presentation to the overall organization. In this capacity, Rinaldo would have presented, not for the ARRL but for the sub-committee for which he is secretary.
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Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
WA3VJB
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« Reply #473 on: November 29, 2007, 04:36:02 AM »

I see.
Immaculate Conception.
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ka3zlr
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« Reply #474 on: November 29, 2007, 05:27:43 AM »

Jack you're right on about "titles."

I already had been thinking about how pompous and self-aggrandizing the IARU administrative structure seems, with terms like "international secretariat," and "most esteemed worthy seer and advisor" in there. OK I made up the last one, but you get the point.

The problem is that these guys get free trips to Brazil, Geneva and wherever else over the years, and make significant inroads at important places like the ITU, whose people probably don't know that it's just "hams" primarily from a little non-profit publishing group.

These has-beens or still-ares operate without supervision or guidance as they pursue their own agendas, and we are left to react to them and try to mitigate the mess they often make, as with this damn band plan.

The best we can do is see to it they are smacked down hard and publicly, as we are doing, by posting/circulating/writing as much as possible when we find it out.

As  the roach, they scatter when the lights are turned on.




and my meaning is . when there is such a rift as this moving through the realm of the service, and the decisions that were made have the possibility of such serious impact to the service future, it demands explanation...Complete explanation, Not Don't worry about it....No, We are licensed with the charge of Polite Stewardship of the privilege's granted by the authorities, and this license carries with it the responsibility that each of us work towards the common good of the Service.

jack KA3ZLR.

What "rift" are you referring to in your statement Jack?
And you said, "it demands explanation...Complete explanation"
What additional explanation does one need that hasn't been already documented by the ARRL President and CEO in various e-mails that are quoted in a number of pages in this thread.
We already know that the voluntary IARU band plan (or any band plan for that matter) have no legal authority over us. The FCC provides all our amateur radio rules and regulations. It was already stated by the ARRL ,when they pulled RM-11306, that they might in the future, revisit the issue of regulation by bandwidth. The ARRL President has already stated in an e-mail posted here, that the Board of Directors have no plans to bring it up as an agenda item in Jan. 2008. I see no changes to my operating patterns come 1/1/08.



 Good Morning Pete and everyone,

  Ok I slept on it,...i have my morning coffee..."the Rift" is the obvious fall out these last so many pages, and i am pointing to the forum here i've read others elsewhere, i see questions without answers, i seen actions without input, and i watched and read the comment about "ignorance"... I have a problem with that OM, let's stick to the present activity as you state, I am only ignorant to the Facts i'm missing.

 Why would any Licensed Amateur voluntarily take part, design or speerhead a voluntary agreement the has such possible limiting capabilities in representing the United States, then state it is to be ignored as voluntary compliance only...there's a Questionable Duality in existence now........why would you do that Pete..I wouldn't do that.. what would lead someone to do this...if the concern is to bring other countries into some compliance or offer a base line for their present and future business and or Amateur Service then it is to that countries business to do so...that's fine....., Our regulations are the mandate, should remain the mandate, and should have been stated as the mandate on "Our behalf" first and always IMO....such agreement is in place to be ignored and left in tact right...just walk away now it means nothing.

 All i know is what i've witnessed the actions from the league participants that generate to many questions on my behalf right...

 When I can make peace with an authority I become an authority I can't read minds..


jack KA3ZLR.

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