Station Takes a Bath

[W1RKW]

My station took a nice bath this weekend.  The septic tank backed up into the basement where the station resides.  The plumbing runs above the station and water backed out of the waterfilter drain right onto the station.  Everything soaked.   The people who installed the water filter 4 years ago assured me there was a ball check valve in the vent they installed in the mainline when I questioned them. I guess it's my fault for not looking closer at the contraption they installed and for putting the station there.  It looked like it was a check valve there but nope, just a fancy looking contraption that was only an air vent and a p-trap underneath it. I don't know who's the bigger jackass, me or them.  Ruined a nice 3 day weekend. Fixed their plumbing screw up permanently.  I hate messing with plumbing.  Funny thing  was I scheduled to have the tank pumped 2 weeks ago as the house is approaching the 5 year mark and the pumpers are coming this Friday. 

 

[W4EWH]

Sue the bastards!

W1AC

[AF9J]

OH geez!  How's the equipment Bob?

Ellen -AF9J

[WA1GFZ]

Having just visited you, I can picture the whole mess, that sucks.
I lived in Manchester once the the sewer backed up and shot out the washing machine drain. That convinced me to always live on high ground. So you might also look at that drain. I didn't see 18 kids running around so surprised it would have problems after only 5 years.
Sounds like you have a more basic problem like the soap you are dumping into the system.
The ground is bone dry so I'm surprised.

[W1RKW]

At this time everything seems OK.  A couple of the older tube rigs, the FT102, mixing board and an oscilloscope took the brunt of it. Everything in the vicinity of splashing got wet with what amounted to soapy water.  Laundry was running when it happened.  Fortunately it wasn't raw sewage.  Having soap and lint and crap get into stuff isn't fun.

The things that were soaked got an alcohol bath then soaked in the sun yesterday then cleaned with contact cleaner.  So far I think I'm OK.  The FT102 is my main concern but I think it will be OK based on the steps I took to clean it.  The steps are similar to an incident I had with an HT 10 or so years ago.  The HT had fallen into salt water on a fishing trip I went on.  Rather than worry about the HT and ruin a fishing trip I put the HT into a bucket of freshwater and soaked it for the duration of the trip. When the trip was over and got home I put it into a bucket of isopropyl alcohol. Dried it out in the hot sun then hit it with contact cleaner.  To this day it works AOK and it's an Alinco HT.  So I have my hopes.  Unlike the HT, the FT102, mixing board and O'scope weren't immersed so I think I'm good to go.  It just sucks having to take emergency steps in as little time as possible to save stuff.

[W1RKW]

Frank,
When I scheduled the pumping a couple of weeks ago, the septic tank people told me I may have some sort of filter to prevent crap from getting into the leach field, something mandated by the town.  If that is the case, I suspect that (and hopefully is) probably clogged. My brother has that in his system in his new house as well. This is supposed to be an engineered system. Hopefully they're right. My folks had a "unengineered" septic system that was abused for 30 years with 3 kids and it never failed them before they went to municipal sewer lash up. I've heard of horror stories where a blockage in a municipal sewer system can ruin multiple homes in a heart beat. Still glad I don't have that.  Normal flushing and water usage don't seem to be a problem.  Dumping large amounts of water down like this weekend with the washer showed the problem.  I'll find out when the honey dipper shows up.  Hopefully I don't have a bigger problem.

Having just visited you, I can picture the whole mess, that sucks.
I lived in Manchester once the the sewer backed up and shot out the washing machine drain. That convinced me to always live on high ground. So you might also look at that drain. I didn't see 18 kids running around so surprised it would have problems after only 5 years.
Sounds like you have a more basic problem like the soap you are dumping into the system.
The ground is bone dry so I'm surprised.

[k4kyv]

I don't  drain my clothes washer to the septic tank.  I simply drain it into an open field where it helps irrigate the weeds.  It's about all the septic tank can do to handle two toilets and the shower.  But it has been so dry that the grass is not even greener over the field line.

[WA1GFZ]

Bob,
The tank has baffels to prevent brown subs from going into the leach fields. They broke on my tank but a smart guy showed me how to make them out of PVC pipe. They are concrete and sometimes break off. Maybe a tree root looking for water got into the pipe. It seems strange with the ground bone dry. Someone in my neighborhood is dumping washer water in the stream. I'll have him busted if I ever find the source. I've had the uesless EPA. Local PD and Water Co. over to see it.

[W3SLK]

Don said:

I don't  drain my clothes washer to the septic tank.  I simply drain it into an open field where it helps irrigate the weeds.  It's about all the septic tank can do to handle two toilets and the shower.  But it has been so dry that the grass is not even greener over the field line.

Most of the SEO's won't allow draining 'greywater' into a separate drainage field. It all depneds whether you have an asshole for an SEO. The newer 'engineered' systems such as sandmounds really can't take this kind of abuse either. Which requires frequent pumping. The next stage I'm aware of is self-chlorinated outfall which requires the user to check and adjust the pH of the effluent on a regular basis.

[WA1GFZ]

dumping water on the ground will get you in trouble. This should not be a problem with a new system like yours Bob.

[W1RKW]

Thanks Frank for the encouragement.  I suspect I have a clogged filter.  Friday the pumper comes to suck the tank out.  I will know if I have bigger problems with drainage then.

Rigs seem OK today.  And the FT102 seems to work better.  No more scratchy pots.  I guess it needed a cleaning afterall.   

[WA3VJB]

What are you doing crappin' in the house anyway ?
If you were like the TimTron there would be no septic problem.

Seriously, we too have had some problems lately, after some major construction downstairs. I think a crew dropped something down the new drain for a new tub, the output of which is the last item and right at the pipe that goes outside to the cesspool and drain field.

Sometimes, whatever it is, apparently gets stirred up and partially blocks the pipe underneath the tub, usually when there's a washer spin drain cycle under way (high volume, high velocity). Then, you see washwater come up the tub drain and the head next to it.  No overflows, but it's kinda scary. Glad I wasn't sitting there at the time.

Get the snake.

[flintstone mop]

Do they still call the "septic tank engineers" honey dippers?/
Fred

[W3SLK]

Paul said:

Sometimes, whatever it is, apparently gets stirred up and partially blocks the pipe underneath the tub, usually when there's a washer spin drain cycle under way (high volume, high velocity). Then, you see washwater come up the tub drain and the head next to it.  No overflows, but it's kinda scary. Glad I wasn't sitting there at the time.

Paul, that usually happens due to the bath drain being in close proximity to the wahser drain. The rate at which you "de-water" your washer is greater than the drain pipe can handle, (just a peak). Since water doesn't compress, it has to go somewhere. I suspect that the tub is right before the washer drain since it would have a tendancy to go back.  Drain headers IIRC are supposed to be ¼" slope per foot.

[WA3VJB]

Good theory Mikey, I wonder about that.

Here the tub drain is the last source of drainage into the pipe that takes everything out of the house to the septic tank.

The utility sink drain is higher when you include the trap and the height of the sink, and maybe a little farther than the tub where it hits the house drain pipe. The head would be third-to-last, and the washer drain is fourth as you get further from the pipe that leads outside.

During these incidents, we will notice that the standing water in the toilet bubbles, and the level rises and undulates down while the washer is power draining.  I wanted to aggravate the problem, and I filled the utility sink with a stopper in the drain, then let it loose with the washer on power drain.

THAT's when the toilet almost overflowed, and water came up out of the tub drain AND the overflow vent plate where the drain petcock is mounted. Pretty dramatic.

Yet, when I try those exact circumstances since then, I cannot get anything to back up, bubble, nor churn. Maybe I blew out whatever was loitering near the house outlet pipe. KC said maybe a snake, serpent-type, one. ea.

Blast of water like that is sort of like plugging yer coax into an electrical outlet to blow the shield hairs out of the PL259 center conductor. (what doesn't everyone do it that way ?)

Well, anyway.

~~~~~~~~~

Bob we have a "flush tax" in Maryland that supposedly helps subsidize sewage treatment plants to get people off septic and therefore clean up the Chesapeake Bay.

What happens is that the developers of all the new neighborhoods like where ZE wants to move suck that money pipeline to help pay for their new sewerage, and it does nothing for all the rural areas like where we live. No buildout, no city water, just a tax collected and paid with your real estate assessment, which lists whether you've got a well and septic.

But based on what I'm seeing here, maybe it's not a good thing to get hooked up to a city line anyway.

This 30-year old septic system tests fine, drains fine, and a once a year pumpout doesn't lift much.

One thing we've done with the renovations downstairs here is to re-route the backwash for the water softener. The homeowner J-S'd a line from the backwash (which uses rock salt) into the utility sink, which drains into the septic tank. That salt water probably didn't do the breakdown chemistry in there much good, but no problems found. Now, like Don KYV, I ran a line down the hill and the salt and the cleansed iron deposits from the water softener drain into some sandy soil in the woods.

[WA1GFZ]

There is an art to designing a good drainage system so crazy stuff like backups don't happen. My building inspector gave me some great tips. Also a friend let me borrow a good book on how to do it right and have proper venting. my lots became legal for building when they ran sewers down the street in the 80s. Before that there was no room for a well and septic between the neighbors.
Paul sounds like someone messed up with pipe size and maybe venting.
Bob I would bet money you have a root or a clog. Heck the system is only what 5 years old?? I seem to remember it going out the back wall of the basement. Those trees are thursty these days. Check your plot plan for junction boxes. Go to the town if you don't have a good plan. Do not tell them you have a problem. Tell them you are getting pumped and just want to know what to inspect. You don't need some wet lands idiot on your 6.

[W1RKW]

Frank,
I willing to bet I don't have a root problem, hopefully.  The drainage field is pretty far from any trees. If I do I'm going to be very surprised and ticked. I think I have a clog somewhere and I'm hoping it's this filter that the septic guy said I might have and would need to change.  My brother has a new home and he has a filter in his tank and has replaced his 3 times in the last 8  years of being there.  I'm going on five without opening up the tank in that time period so if the filter is there I'm sure it has junk in it.  I'll know tomorrow whether I'll be paying for just a pumping or a major repair.

[WA1GFZ]

Well I have no idea how the filter is configured these days. My tank from the 60s just had baffles. Good luck and give us the report.
I was talking to my brother a while ago and he thought it is possible you have the wrong pitch on a pipe. yup the trees are pretty far away, but it is very dry.

[W1RKW]

I wondered about the pipe pitch today.  I was talking with a coworker today and he said it's possible that the ground settled in such a way that there is a dip in the feed line to the tank.  Not sure how one would determine that with it being underground but I suppose that's a possibility too along with an overall pitch problem.  I will be all over someone in a flash if I have a pitch problem.  Still remaining confident though that it's an obstruction.  I'll let you know tomorrow.

[W1RKW]

Septic tank got a clean bill of health.  The filter was clogged.  The septic tank guy was surprised I was able to get 5 years on the filter.  The filter is located on the exit of the tank for those who are curious and surprisingly there is a ball check valve going to the drainage field.  I didn't get a chance to ask the pump guy why that's there or how it works.  But in any case I'm good to go at least for another 4 or so years.  And today happens to be the 5th year to the day since moving in. Thanks everyone for the input.

[WA1GFZ]

I suspect the ball keeps the surface subs from going down the field pipe. It must be a new style of a baffle. YEA!

[W1RKW]

I'm glad I took pictures of the construction of the house and made measurements where the tank was.  That info came in handy for digging the openings up.  The guy pulled in just as I finished clearing the last opening. 

[ka2zni]

Well I guess you won't have to worry about any dirty audio!  Seriously though, glad things worked out for you, and that the Yaesu FT 102 survived it's sponge bath.. been lookin' for one of those in good shape for a while, they are a nice 'ole rig.

Good to hear you got your septic straightened out!

[WA1GFZ]

Sounds like this filter needs to be checked every couple years. I would think 4 years betwees pumping is pretty often. Pictures are great history. Great that you didn't have any real problems. I took a bunch of sewer pictures and the two town guys made a nice map to show the cleanouts . They triangulated with neighbor's foundation

[W1RKW]

I was advised by the septic tank guy to have it changed or cleaned every 3 years, 4 years on the outside.