3.892 a disaster and a disgrace

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Then they shouldn't mind if we operate on 3892.

I was informed, in no uncertain terms, by one of the 3892 group that "there is no such thing as the AM window.....".   So much for "Gentlemen's Agreements, huh?

[kf4qkr]

Dont let those lids run you off 3885.I have had my share of runins with this group and there is no reasoning with them.Just carry a big strapping signal and keep operating .

[The Slab Bacon]

Dont let those lids run you off 3885.I have had my share of runins with this group and there is no reasoning with them.Just carry a big strapping signal and keep operating .

Trust me, They wont, and I will!!

                                                     The Slab Bacon

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Then they shouldn't mind if we operate on 3892.

I was informed, in no uncertain terms, by one of the 3892 group that "there is no such thing as the AM window.....".   So much for "Gentlemen's Agreements, huh?

Yep, this nonsense of a one-way gentleman's agreement is a long-dead horse. If we choose to pen ourselves into a tiny sliver of band where we can be bludgeoned by SSB jammers, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

As mentioned, the spectrum below 3800 is an entirely different world of AM. Glad to hear that Don, Thom, and others have been putting those frequencies to use. Looking forward to getting the new ant built and up soon to return there myself.

Claiming the frequencies between 3870-3890 as "ours" and assuming no interference makes no more sense than the lids on 3892 claiming that frequency as "theirs". Use them if they're available, adapt if they are not. And if someone tries to jam you on any frequency, you can record and report the activity in hopes of some action, or use the more expedient 'KYV Solution: Turn Up The Wick. When confronted by a wall of signals and no one paying any attention to their whining, the wankers tend to go elsewhere.

[KA1ZGC]

So much for "Gentlemen's Agreements, huh?

And besides.... just who are these supposed "gentlemen" anyway ??
Everone talks about this agreement.... but never mentions WHO it was that made it...??

Nobody.

That's because there is no "gentleman's agreement". There never was. It doesn't exist.

3885 was taken by force. There was nothing gentlemanly about it, and there was no agreement.

Whomever first described it as a "gentleman's agreement" was a Revisionist Historian.

This might help explain why only AM operators beleive there is any such thing.

There's no "agreement", and no "window". Never were. Nobody ever cut AM that kind of slack. This is why we have to continue to fight these guys every time we fire up, and why they laugh at us every time we mention the words "agreement" and "window".

This is why we all need to be prepared to stand our ground when some punks come along to try and push us off the frequency, and why they'll do so no matter what frequency we're on.

So there's no point in complaining about their perceived violation of something that never existed in the first place. Just gotta listen around 'em, and talk right through 'em. Gentlemen get trampled underfoot, every time.

Just another day in the life on 75.

--Thom
Kilowatt Amplifier One Zero Grid Current

[WD8BIL]

Anyone who would ruin their own evening by wasting all their time and energy trying to ruin someone else's fun clearly don't deserve the good times that they're only depriving themselves of.

Now there's a quote worth saving !!

[The Slab Bacon]

Anyone who would ruin their own evening by wasting all their time and energy trying to ruin someone else's fun clearly don't deserve the good times that they're only depriving themselves of.

Now there's a quote worth saving !!

kinda like : "I'm lost, I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I 
               get back, please ask me to wait!!"

[WA1HZK]

STRAP
That's the only cure. You always wanted to build a rig, Go Ahead, build it!
It's been the same since I started listening in the 60's. At least then AM was still a majority mode.
I guess it's time to get Tina to fire up the "Brent & Keith" show!

[N0WVA]

Geez, this stuf is still going on? I thought the kids would have matured by now.....Ya know what, its not an AM vs. slopbucket thing......they apply the same tactics to unknowing ssb ops who happen to stumble upon that freq when its quiet.

[AF9J]

Yup, the "dead air" groups.

Ellen - AF9J

[flintstone mop]

Don't forget the "expanded" part of the band.

fred

[KA1ZGC]

Even that part of the band has its dead air groups. 3710 is one I've stumbled over a few times now.

Nothing like the crap bracketing 3885, but there nonetheless.

Of course, nobody promised us a rose garden.

--Thom
Killer Album One Zappa's Greatest Compositions

[ka2zni]

Geez, this stuf is still going on? I thought the kids would have matured by now.....Ya know what, its not an AM vs. slopbucket thing......they apply the same tactics to unknowing ssb ops who happen to stumble upon that freq when its quiet.

Nope.. The kids havn't grown up yet and figured out how to run those fancy interference free Transceivers...

And they certainly havn't grown up to the point of learning that frequencies aren't allocated to their special needs or their groups, they want privacy and interference free communication on their frequency, they can pick up the telephone as far as I'm concerned. Then they can have all the interference free air time they want! 

[Tim WA1HnyLR]

Well,Well, Well,
  Its the same old song and dance. If you thought 3892 is bad you should have been on in the 70s and 80s . The miscreant channel was 3895. It seems that a particular group of slopbucketeers of a certain common mindset seem to hang out in the area of 3890--3898.It has been that way for years. Also the same when you venture below 3870. In the past when I had a big rig, single 4-1000 modulated by a pair of 4-1000 with 5500volts on the plates at full strap I would not hesitate to go to full strap in the evenings . It was the only way to hold down the frequency. At times that was not even enough. I had plans of building a really big rig, a 4CX5000 modulated by a pair of 3CX2500F3s . I had all of the components to build it. I never did after losing much of it in the fire of '92. In the middle 90s I was working at a used transmitter shop. I had a 2.5 Kw McMartin broadcast transmitter that a friend of mine Dale VE3AAM was working with me. We pulled out the single phase 4Kv supply and put in a 3phase supply from a Gates BC5P . I had 3 phase power available at my work area.Yep about 5Kv out. The transmitter became known as "Big Mac" .It worked quite well on 160 and 75.I used a Viking II as the driver.The pair of 4-1000 tubes in the final would get rather red in the face. The 160 meter dipole fed with open wire line hung over a creek for its full length. Good ground conductivity for sure. When Big Mac hit the air it was all over but the pissing and moaning. That was then in the middle 90s. Big Mac got sold to some Bible Beater in the Carribean. The single phase power supply components were reinstalled. The special high performance mod transformer that I put in was removed. Away it went down the road.This is the kind of power that is needed to keep some of these idiots in line.Oh! don't forget the antenna. A low dipole doesn't cut it. Nor does the usual Globe king 500 or amplifier with pair of 3-500Zs in it . REAL POWER is needed. The mid 90s was a very rough and tumble time on 75. There was no Riely Hollingsworth then. It was strap or be strapped. The guy with the usual DX 100 in the adjacent QSO got ground up from the splatter from the nearby battles that would happen in  the evening. Things have calmed down much from the way it used to be.I have even used my 15 watt exciter with no problem with out being QRMed out of existence. As much as I see the amount of power needed to comfortably communicate on AM may not be much at times. There are times that at least 1500 watts carrier outpoot is necessary.Hopefully I have sparked some interest in some of you who have read this post in building or obtaining a"Big Rig". Ignore the idiots turn up the wick Another type of technology in dealing with the idiots is to build an S B E . a slop bucket eliminator or simply a modulated oscillator using a tube like a single 833 or 304TL . This will really make them very happy  . 73 and fight the good fight. Tim WA1HnyLR

[KA1ZGC]

Jeezus, what an old-buzzard transmission! 

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

In nineteen and ninety-two.....

The 160 meter dipole fed with open wire line hung over a creek for its full length. Good ground conductivity for sure.

Ah yes, the Wally & Richard Buster!

[ka2zni]

I'm glad I stumbled onto a homebrew 4-1000 .... With a spare 4-1000 tube to go with it.. The xfmr came from an old AM xmtr and weighs 115 lbs by itself! 3750V at 2 Amp...

Sooooooooooo.......  This 'ole girl oughta strap!
It's mine if I want it... Gotta take one heckuva road trip for it though!! 

Makes that Dentron Clipperton L I'm getting, well, kinda piss weak in comparison!!

Oh well, the Floor Model henry does a pretty decent job.


73's,
Kevin

[kf6pqt]

I would be EXTREMELY curious to hear an audio file of what an SBE sounds like when listening on LSB...

I'm imagining its just like when an old lady drives by in a beater '70's buick with a dragging brake caliper?

Or is it WORSE?

[KF1Z]

Yeah....
Try a dragging brake caliper, a dragging muffler, a dragging husband......

AND she'd be yelling at the A**holes around her the whole time!

[KB2WIG]

 " I would be EXTREMELY curious to hear an audio file of what an SBE sounds like when listening on LSB... "

If ur ever on the east coast 0530A Sat morning, listen in to the Military radio net  3.885.... .. whole lotta shakin goin on

klc

[AF9J]

I've been around long enough to remember those times that Tim was talking about (remember, I'm a young, old buzzardess).  75 may be pretty rough now, but I remember it being so bad, that I literally avoided it for 99% of my hamming in the 80s & 90s.

I can remember back in Aug. of 87.  I'd graduated college.  I was broke.  No job offers were in sight (you COULDN'T buy an job in engineering in the late 80s - I even had the assistant Dean of the College of Engineering tell my to face that everybody graduating with an engineering degree was having a hard time finding a job).  I'd finished up my temp. job with the Post Office.  I had a couple of weeks to waste until my dad could pick me up, and take me home.  So, all I did was read, ride my cycle on all of the back roads around Madison, WI, and operate from W9YT (the Univ. of WI club station).  Now where was I? Sorry, I digressed.  During this time period, on a late afternoon day, I got into a QSO with a guy on 3860 or 3870, about motorcycles.  I was a rider (and had been for 8 years at the time [I also came from a family of riders {dad used to ride, and both of my uncles were riders}]), and this guy was also a rider, and used to be mechanic at a cycle shop.  We started to seriously rag chew.  A few other riders heard us, and joined in, so that we ended up with a nice roundtable. About an hour and a half after the roundtable started going, some "dead air" people decided to inform us that we were on "their" freq., that they had met on for a number of years. They were not a net, it was just "their" freq.  We informed them that we had been in QSO on freq., for at least a good hour and a half.  Then the jamming started. Most of us were running barefoot 100W rigs.  I had access the the Flamethrower (a homebrew 3-500z amp designed and built a few years previously by some of our Electrical Engineering major club members, that would easily do a KW, and if you hit a switch in the back would run close to, or actually extra-legal power [I never hit the switch]).   I fired up the Flamethrower (it also helped that we had killer antennas, our 75m dipole was effectively 130 feet off the ground), and so did some of the other roundtable members with amps, but by that time, the damage was done. - most of the roundtablers were running barefoot, and couldn't break the QRM, so we had to call it.  After numerous times of dealing with this nonsense (and being told that the freq. "was in use" when I wanted to call CQ, on what sonded like a clear freq.), I pretty much gave up with using the General Class portion of 75, in the late 80s, and decided to stick with 160m & 10m.

Skip to 1993 - I'd just gotten my Advanced.  As some of you know, I'm also a Corntaster (BTW, I'm getting sick of the win at all costs attitude that's afflicting contesting to the point where, many of the ops are becoming first class jerks on the air, more interested in stepping on everybody else to be the top dog; it's worse than ever).  I decided during the Jan. 1993 North American QSO Party to call CQ on a freq. near 3850. I listened for 2 minutes or so, &  asked if the freq. was in use.  I heard nothing, so I called CQ.  Silly me - I should have remembered, (during the 80s & into the 90s) the vicinity of 3850 was a BAD place to be.  A certain group of people had claimed it as their own.  If you plunked down at night around 3850, you were just asking for trouble from them - the radio equivalent of WW3.  After my first CQ, out of the blue this idiot running a good 20 over 9 tells me to get my "g****mned contesting *ss" off of "their" freq.  I replied, that I'd be happy to, but that he didn't have to talk to me like some foul mouthed 13 year old.  OH boy!  Big mistake.  The the F-words flew, and his buddies joined in the chorus (all running 20 over to 30 over 9).  I tuned off freq. a.s.a.p.

Like I said. Tim was right.  75m is a real pain a lot of times.  But, it was beyond awful in the 80s and 90s, so much so, that I avoided it like the plague most of the time.

73,
Ellen - AF9J
Dealing with a stray cat she found in her apartment building

[k4kyv]

Don't ever give jammers or dead-air groups (1) the pleasure of acknowledging their existence, or (2) the pleasure of thinking they "ran" you off a frequency.

Doing so just ups their confidence and makes them feel more brazen for next time.

Just ignore the culprits, turn up the wick and keep on with the QSO.  If you can't hear the other station through the rubbish, just keep on operating without letting on.  It helps when someone else with a strapping signal joins in.  But rarely do jammers so completely obliterate a station running a reasonably strong signal, that I can't get enough of the jist of the conversation to continue on as if nothing had happened. And I am using a half-century-old 75A-4 for a receiver.

But at the same time, we don't own a frequency either.  If there is an ongoing SSB conversation on 3885 or some other "AM frequency" when we first start listening, wait till they sign off, or better still, move outside the "window" and see if you can establish an AM contact in uncharted territory.  Above all, don't just plop on top of the "slopbuckets" and make a call on AM.

One exception to the above, if you listen first and it is obvious that the slopbuckets have moved to the frequency to intentionally jam an ongoing AM QSO on or near the frequency, then all's fair in love and war.  A good example is the other night when the 3892 group moved to 3888 or thereabouts to retaliate against the two guys in Texas who started up on 3890 (most likely without even being able to hear the 3892 activity).  Reportedly, they commenced almost immediately to piss 'n moan about the ongoing QSO, of which I was a part, on 3885.  I didn't even know they were there until others in the group made the mistake of mentioning it, but still, that made me decide to stay in the QSO a little longer than I had originally planned.

[KA1ZGC]

It won't surprise you to hear that they were at it again last night when I was buzzarding you to sleep, Don. 

Same deal as last time, just zero-beat the HQ-170A to you and flipped it to "lower". Just the tiniest sliver of their energy on your lower sideband, no problem to listen right through.

I think I managed to buzzard them to sleep as well, though; so maybe it wasn't all for nought. 

--Thom
Killer Agony One Zipper Got Caught

[k4kyv]

I didn't hear them and I had my receiver in the 6 kc/s bandwidth position.  The only  reason I didn't open it up to 8 was due to the AM QSO on 3880.  Wasn't even aware any slopbuckets were there.  The frequency was clear when I started up on 3887, far enough away from 3880 not to cause any QRM.

[ka2zni]

Don't ever give jammers or dead-air groups (1) the pleasure of acknowledging their existence, or (2) the pleasure of thinking they "ran" you off a frequency.

Doing so just ups their confidence and makes them feel more brazen for next time.

Good advice Don, and after the treatment you got Ellen, glad too see your still around and glad too see that the band has been cleaned up in part. I remember back in them days how foul mouthed some of the guys were, glad too see that it has reverted back to cleaner days to be sure.

And I have to admit, shamefully, that I have been off for a number of years, just recently getting back on this year. And because where I live in relation to the guys on 3.892 they come in here like gang busters all day long even when the band is slow. And I will admit, that my first contacts were on this frequency, and as seldom as i had been on here, I never heard them "Bash" Am'ers or thought nothing of associating with those guys,

UNTIL the other night...

I was appauled by their behavior and lack of responsibility and was totally against what they were trying to accomplish, too the point that I have NOT snapped on the SSB rig, After listening to them that night and a couple QSO's on 40 meters in much the same tone and mannerisms as these guys on 3.892, I have pretty much washed my hands of the SSB band mode.

On a positive side, Looks like I may have this too play with on AM soon...