Slopbuckets invading the Ghetto

[k4kyv]

Lately, I have been working inside the Ghetto a little more frequently. With the arrival of static season, and the overall lack of AM activity below 3750 and rarity of responses to my CQ's, I have retuned up higher a little more often.

But I seem to notice a new infiltration of slopbuckets that I didn't notice before the 15th of December.  Seems that whenever I get into a QSO between 3870 and 3890, invariably within minutes some SSB "group" comes right on top of the frequency, either riding the carrier or operating only a kc or two away, foaming at the mouth and pissing and moaning about AM.

Of course, that has always happened from time to time, but now it seems to happen EVERY time I get into an AM QSO.

I think the static may have driven some of the AM'ers off for the season.  The QSO's in the Ghetto seem to be more reasonable in size, with fewer of those 9-plus member roundtables.  This I even noticed last weekend during the big freeze, when all the T-storm activity in N America was temporarily quenched.

At least I assuming that the curtailment of activity is due to the static. Hope the AM community isn't pulling a John Kerry and tucking its tail in face of what appears to be a deliberate effort to occupy the "window" with SSB.

I wouldn't be particularly concerned about this now that we have so much more space to operate, except that I'm not hearing much AM activity outside the Ghetto, either.

[W9GT]

Lately, I have been working inside the Ghetto a little more frequently. With the arrival of static season, and the overall lack of AM activity below 3750 and rarity of responses to my CQ's, I have retuned up higher a little more often.

But I seem to notice a new infiltration of slopbuckets that I didn't notice before the 15th of December.  Seems that whenever I get into a QSO between 3870 and 3890, invariably within minutes some SSB "group" comes right on top of the frequency, either riding the carrier or operating only a kc or two away, foaming at the mouth and pissing and moaning about AM.

Of course, that has always happened from time to time, but now it seems to happen EVERY time I get into an AM QSO.

Hi Don,

I too, have noticed the same thing.  Perhaps all the discussion regarding moving out of the "window" and going down to the lower end of the band has given the impression that we have given-up operating in the "Ghetto" range.

On at least two occasions the DX-60 net that meets at 3880 on Sunday mornings has been deliberately QRM'd by the SSBers on 3878.5 who seem to have become even bolder with their shenanigans and total disregard for AM operation.  Of course, true to form, they belly-up to AM operations and then proceed to complain about how wide the AM signals are.

73,  Jack, W9GT

[AB1GX]

I noticed the SSB operation in the ghetto last week and already made a note of it in this forum.  But I also noticed when I changed receivers, going to a wide bandwidth IF, that the SSB operation went down into the noise and the AM came in beautifully undisturbed. 

Why worry? Just make the slopbuckets transparent!

[Mike/W8BAC]

Last night was a free for all. W1IA and a group of others had 3.870 in use for at least 4 hours. Some group (10 or more) showed up for some sort of planned event. They used just about every method you could name to drive off the evil AM devil. Upper sideband and lower sideband plus AM jamming went on for an hour or more. I heard more than once very serious claims of ownership. "We own this frequency, It has been ours for 15 years!".

Brent said it best. Calmly he said "If you had just asked, I would have moved." "Now you can just be mad" The irony is 3.875 was clear throughout this entire mess.

[kf6pqt]

My tactic has been to run home from work and call cq on my piddly lil DX-60 in hopes that I can bring, one, and then hopefully several more powerful stations to "plant a flag" on the frequency.

Sometimes the slopbucketeers will move, sometimes they wont. But last night I did hear some turkey laying a carrier across 3880, for a LONG time, though he sounded local to this coast. This was around 8pm PST, he seemed to keep at it for at least 20 minutes, then went to 3875 for a bit.

-Jason kf6pqt

[W1GFH]

I hate how the slopbucketeers from Texarkana ruin the first hour of the W. Coast AMI net on 3870 by zero beating the AM stations and talking right through them. One must listen to AM transmission with a buzz-saw SSB commentary superimposed on it:

"Running a DX-100 here, using a D104...sheeit gunna git me onea them new Yaseu at AES...The antenna is a dipole up about 50 feet....whars Dickie tanite? I ain' hear him inna long spell....Receiver is an R390A....dayumn if I ain' got some SWR on this Henry 3K....."

Bear in mind, this seems to happen only on net night. Had about an hour QSO on that same frequency with kf6pqt last night, no slopbucketeers, no AMers, no nothing, just us. After we signed out, I heard several AM stations from Northern CA call CQ and some QSO's started up, triggering some late night AM activity.

(The Texarkana slopbuckets appear to go QRT around 10PM CST, so as a result, AMers in PST have gotten into the habit of waiting around until these jokers sign off.)

[WA1GFZ]

There is also a bunch from moron land that get on during the gray hair net and try to jam us but we strap them so they are pretty much a waste.
They play dumb (like they need to try hard) when you get on their case.
I hear they are close to each other and set their RF gain back to not hear us.
wow how manly...
 

[k4kyv]

I hate how the slopbucketeers from Texarkana ruin the first hour of the W. Coast AMI net on 3870 by zero beating the AM stations and talking right through them. One must listen to AM transmission with a buzz-saw SSB commentary superimposed on it:

That's when it's time to try the old tactic that Timtron calls "Exit stage left".

Normally, it's good operating practice for all the AM stations in a QSO to stay zero-beat with each other.  Uses up less spectrum, plus reduces QRM within the QSO if the band is congested.

But when slopbucketeers deliberately zero beat to ride the AM carrier, make it a point to QSY down about 1 kc/s.  Usually the offending stations will follow, so QSY again, if the frequency is clear down below.  After repeating the process several times, the entire QSO will have moved down an entire SSB-width communications channel.  If the SSB group is still zero-beat, that's the time to move back up to the original frequency (after checking to make sure it is still clear).  If the SSB group stays down below, then everyone is happy and the QRM is gone from both QSO's.  If the SSB group follows you back up to stay zero-beat with the AM QSO, that is proof enough that the interference was deliberate.

An effective variation of this tactic is for the AM stations in QSO to spread out over a couple of kc/s so that everyone is at least 500~ apart from everyone else, and work fast break-in instead of old buzzard roundtable style.

[WA3VJB]

Texarkana slopbuckets appear to go QRT around 10PM CST,

Yeup, right when The Simpsons come on.

[W1GFH]

That's when it's time to try the old tactic that Timtron calls "Exit stage left".

Out here in the Wild West we have more than a few AMers who are rock-bound. Also, when a small group of frequency agile AMers tried the "exit stage left" technique, we were followed DOWN AND BACK by the zero-beating slopbucketeers. Agh.

[K9ACT]

Lately, I have been working inside the Ghetto a little more frequently. With the arrival of static season, and the overall lack of AM activity below 3750 and rarity of responses to my CQ's, I have retuned up higher a little more often.

Don't give up.  We hit pay dirt tonight.  What a fine QSO on 3710.  WB2GCR, K4XK, K4KYV, W1HLR

I am doing just the opposite.   Don't even check the ghetto... just head right for 3710 and start calling.  It takes perseverance but I have never yet been skunked.  Sometimes the throat gets pretty dry but it beats the ghetto.

I haven't been around long enough to know the history of the window but maybe ignorance is bliss.... I say let the slop buckets have it.

Sorry I had to bug out before hearing your answer Don, but maybe you can answer privately.... 8000   1600v, 220 ma, 20ma drive, 250W RF... what could cause the over-red tube.


Jack k9act@schmidling.com

[WA2AAE]

Sounds like the mid-1950s when the AM versus SSB freud was at a peak. With all the spectrum available now its' too bad this is still going on. The SSB guys have a whole band to operate on and you would think they would let the AM window be.

73, Harvey

[steve_qix]

What happened to all the recorders :-) 

If this is happening REGULARLY, _and_ if we (the AM operators) were really there *first*, just roll "tape" (or digital) or whatever.  Collect evidence.   Ask "them" to move because they're interfering with an existing QSO, net, etc.  If they won't, collect a few nights of evidence and send it in to Riley.  If they pretend they don't hear you, have someone who has the capability go over to sideband and call them.   Most likely, you'll get an answer.  The key to success is to start the recording *before* the interference starts.

I would do this if I operated with any sort of regularity.  I often have the digital recorder going when I'm on a clear frequency, and I expect trouble.  In particular, with something like the Grey Hair Net or the DX-60 net or whatever, if the interference is regular and the net (or pre-net) were in progress when the interference started, a recording should present good evidence of what happened.

I have some recordings of the knuckle draggers from 3878 telling me "I have to operate in the AM window of 3885".  Unfortunately, I did not have the recording going BEFORE the interference started, so any evidence I presented would be pretty slim.  There would be nothing to indicate I was there first.  But, eventually I'll have what I need 

Regards,

Steve

[WA1GFZ]

The dumb landers only respond to one threat QRO and ignor

[KA1ZGC]

Many years ago, I developed a full-band baseband RF recorder for these little instances. I can't remember what I did with the original unit (I may have parted it back out again, it was just a curiousity project at the time).

The unit consists of a VCR, an external sync generator, and a DBM. The average VCR can record frequencies approaching 5MHz on standard tape (up to 7MHz on cobalt-doped S-VHS tape). With the right freq conversion, you can squeeze all of any given HF band on one tape. You need to use SP or LP speeds, as EP causes the helical swaths to overlap (acceptible for an NTSC signal, not for an NTSC-width band containing many signals in many modes).

The sync generator is needed for tracking purposes, since VCR tapes are printed helically, not linearly; and since there's no NTSC signal, a replacement for the vertical sync pulse is needed to keep the helical tracks consistent.

Outside the sync function, a VCR simply records and plays back RF from 0 to 5Mhz.

Recording our own conversations is one thing, but recording the entire band (to later demodulate at our leisure) can be FAR more effective, since you can then go back and listen to what these guys were saying to each other (no matter what frequency or mode). They almost always coordinate their jamming activities, and are usually stupid enough to do it on the air. A lot of truly damning statements are usually uttered by these clowns when they think nobody's listening.

I'll hunt around and see if I can find the unit, or at least the drawings for it. I'm sure I could drastically improve on it given the better technology available today.

Just a thought.

--Thom
Keep Away One Zorched Ground Conductor

[flintstone mop]

Why can't we find a new home and stay away from the trouble spots? I know we should never "give up", but if it's going to raise blood pressure and make Hamming a pain in the arse, then it might be time to find another "window"
I could never understand the mentality of the SSB folks, who probably read our posts here, and this stupid war between SSB and AM. We're just using another mode.
Fred

[WA1GFZ]

no dumb lander changes my blood pressure. I find it quite motivating.

[W2VW]

So many AM ops of late have adopted the appliance channelized approach and simply must operate exactly on a channel. This makes it easier for QRM to happen. This is just as bad as a PW station going on forever. 

[The Slab Bacon]

One of the things that is making it even worse now is the current propagation condx. 20 is dead, especially at night, 40 at night is packed with broadcashters, and many dont have room for a 160 antenna. This puts every arsole in the world (at least on our side of it) on 75/80 meters if they want to play a little night time radio.

If conditions were a little better, the warring factions would / could move around a little. But since they cant go anywhere, this only makes the turf wars even worse.

After all, this makes for a lot of hams in a little piece of spectrum. This is the poifict combination for the ground to rumble. However, this is still no reason for hostilities, "dead air groups" and other bad operating practices. This seems to come to a head every weekend when everyone wants to play a little radio, but there is nowhere to go and do it. Many feel that we take up too much spectrum (space that they could use instead). So, like Frank (GFZ) says: "Strap and ignore", and keep on doin what your doin!! If you ignore them long enough they will eventually go away.
                                                      The Slab Bacon  

[WA1GFZ]

The dumb landers are also trying their best on 160 but the class e rig
takes them right out without breaking a sweat..
I can always run a coax over to the HP3325 and go into SBE mode if they get me going. Lotta big rigs on so they only bother the PW sigs a bit.

[Carl WA1KPD]

Texarkana slopbuckets appear to go QRT around 10PM CST,

Yeup, right when The Simpsons come on.

Paul,

What an insulting inference about Homar and the gang.

I heard the goings on last night including what I thought was a very tactful request that they slide down a bit. One of them agreed that they would move 1 KC.

[KA1ZGC]

Why can't we find a new home and stay away from the trouble spots?

It's not like we haven't tried that, Fred. Read the thread entitled "3712 KC".

No good deed goes unpunished.

--Thom
King Abraham One Zebraham George Charlie

[kf6pqt]

Thom,

I'd be very interested in having a look at your VCR notes if you do in fact find them, sounds like a fascinating toy to play with even aside from busting yokels!

-Jason kf6pqt

[k4kyv]

Many years ago, I developed a full-band baseband RF recorder for these little instances. I can't remember what I did with the original unit (I may have parted it back out again, it was just a curiousity project at the time).

The unit consists of a VCR, an external sync generator, and a DAM. The average VCR can record frequencies approaching 5MHz on standard tape (up to 7MHz on cobalt-doped S-VHS tape). With the right freq conversion, you can squeeze all of any given HF band on one tape. You need to use SP or LP speeds, as EP causes the helical swaths to overlap (acceptible for an NTSC signal, not for an NTSC-width band containing many signals in many modes).

Wonder if it would also work with a DVD-R recorder?  I see that they are now showing up at the big box retailers at <$100.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Did the same thing about 15 years ago at work. A 5 MHz bandwidth was pushing it. But what really sucked was the dynamic range - maybe 30 dB on a good day. Wideband analog recorders generally suck.

Many years ago, I developed a full-band baseband RF recorder for these little instances. I can't remember what I did with the original unit (I may have parted it back out again, it was just a curiousity project at the time).

The unit consists of a VCR, an external sync generator, and a DBM. The average VCR can record frequencies approaching 5MHz on standard tape (up to 7MHz on cobalt-doped S-VHS tape). With the right freq conversion, you can squeeze all of any given HF band on one tape. You need to use SP or LP speeds, as EP causes the helical swaths to overlap (acceptible for an NTSC signal, not for an NTSC-width band containing many signals in many modes).

The sync generator is needed for tracking purposes, since VCR tapes are printed helically, not linearly; and since there's no NTSC signal, a replacement for the vertical sync pulse is needed to keep the helical tracks consistent.

Outside the sync function, a VCR simply records and plays back RF from 0 to 5Mhz.

Recording our own conversations is one thing, but recording the entire band (to later demodulate at our leisure) can be FAR more effective, since you can then go back and listen to what these guys were saying to each other (no matter what frequency or mode). They almost always coordinate their jamming activities, and are usually stupid enough to do it on the air. A lot of truly damning statements are usually uttered by these clowns when they think nobody's listening.

I'll hunt around and see if I can find the unit, or at least the drawings for it. I'm sure I could drastically improve on it given the better technology available today.

Just a thought.

--Thom
Keep Away One Zorched Ground Conductor