The AM Forum

Lately, I have been working inside the Ghetto a little more frequently. With the arrival of static season, and the overall lack of AM activity below 3750 and rarity of responses to my CQ's, I have retuned up higher a little more often.

But I seem to notice a new infiltration of slopbuckets that I didn't notice before the 15th of December.  Seems that whenever I get into a QSO between 3870 and 3890, invariably within minutes some SSB "group" comes right on top of the frequency, either riding the carrier or operating only a kc or two away, foaming at the mouth and pissing and moaning about AM.

Of course, that has always happened from time to time, but now it seems to happen EVERY time I get into an AM QSO.

I think the static may have driven some of the AM'ers off for the season.  The QSO's in the Ghetto seem to be more reasonable in size, with fewer of those 9-plus member roundtables.  This I even noticed last weekend during the big freeze, when all the T-storm activity in N America was temporarily quenched.

At least I assuming that the curtailment of activity is due to the static. Hope the AM community isn't pulling a John Kerry and tucking its tail in face of what appears to be a deliberate effort to occupy the "window" with SSB.

I wouldn't be particularly concerned about this now that we have so much more space to operate, except that I'm not hearing much AM activity outside the Ghetto, either.

Hi Don,

I too, have noticed the same thing.  Perhaps all the discussion regarding moving out of the "window" and going down to the lower end of the band has given the impression that we have given-up operating in the "Ghetto" range.

On at least two occasions the DX-60 net that meets at 3880 on Sunday mornings has been deliberately QRM'd by the SSBers on 3878.5 who seem to have become even bolder with their shenanigans and total disregard for AM operation.  Of course, true to form, they belly-up to AM operations and then proceed to complain about how wide the AM signals are.

73,  Jack, W9GT

I noticed the SSB operation in the ghetto last week >:( and already made a note of it in this forum.  But I also noticed when I changed receivers, going to a wide bandwidth IF, that the SSB operation went down into the noise and the AM came in beautifully undisturbed.  ;D

Why worry? Just make the slopbuckets transparent!

Last night was a free for all. W1IA and a group of others had 3.870 in use for at least 4 hours. Some group (10 or more) showed up for some sort of planned event. They used just about every method you could name to drive off the evil AM devil. Upper sideband and lower sideband plus AM jamming went on for an hour or more. I heard more than once very serious claims of ownership. "We own this frequency, It has been ours for 15 years!".

Brent said it best. Calmly he said "If you had just asked, I would have moved." "Now you can just be mad" The irony is 3.875 was clear throughout this entire mess.

My tactic has been to run home from work and call cq on my piddly lil DX-60 in hopes that I can bring, one, and then hopefully several more powerful stations to "plant a flag" on the frequency.

Sometimes the slopbucketeers will move, sometimes they wont. But last night I did hear some turkey laying a carrier across 3880, for a LONG time, though he sounded local to this coast. This was around 8pm PST, he seemed to keep at it for at least 20 minutes, then went to 3875 for a bit.

-Jason kf6pqt

I hate how the slopbucketeers from Texarkana ruin the first hour of the W. Coast AMI net on 3870 by zero beating the AM stations and talking right through them. One must listen to AM transmission with a buzz-saw SSB commentary superimposed on it:

"Running a DX-100 here, using a D104...sheeit gunna git me onea them new Yaseu at AES...The antenna is a dipole up about 50 feet....whars Dickie tanite? I ain' hear him inna long spell....Receiver is an R390A....dayumn if I ain' got some SWR on this Henry 3K....."

Bear in mind, this seems to happen only on net night. Had about an hour QSO on that same frequency with kf6pqt last night, no slopbucketeers, no AMers, no nothing, just us. After we signed out, I heard several AM stations from Northern CA call CQ and some QSO's started up, triggering some late night AM activity.

(The Texarkana slopbuckets appear to go QRT around 10PM CST, so as a result, AMers in PST have gotten into the habit of waiting around until these jokers sign off.)

There is also a bunch from moron land that get on during the gray hair net and try to jam us but we strap them so they are pretty much a waste.
They play dumb (like they need to try hard) when you get on their case.
I hear they are close to each other and set their RF gain back to not hear us.
wow how manly...
 

That's when it's time to try the old tactic that Timtron calls "Exit stage left".

Normally, it's good operating practice for all the AM stations in a QSO to stay zero-beat with each other.  Uses up less spectrum, plus reduces QRM within the QSO if the band is congested.

But when slopbucketeers deliberately zero beat to ride the AM carrier, make it a point to QSY down about 1 kc/s.  Usually the offending stations will follow, so QSY again, if the frequency is clear down below.  After repeating the process several times, the entire QSO will have moved down an entire SSB-width communications channel.  If the SSB group is still zero-beat, that's the time to move back up to the original frequency (after checking to make sure it is still clear).  If the SSB group stays down below, then everyone is happy and the QRM is gone from both QSO's.  If the SSB group follows you back up to stay zero-beat with the AM QSO, that is proof enough that the interference was deliberate.

An effective variation of this tactic is for the AM stations in QSO to spread out over a couple of kc/s so that everyone is at least 500~ apart from everyone else, and work fast break-in instead of old buzzard roundtable style.

Yeup, right when The Simpsons come on.

Out here in the Wild West we have more than a few AMers who are rock-bound. Also, when a small group of frequency agile AMers tried the "exit stage left" technique, we were followed DOWN AND BACK by the zero-beating slopbucketeers. Agh.

Sounds like the mid-1950s when the AM versus SSB freud was at a peak. With all the spectrum available now its' too bad this is still going on. The SSB guys have a whole band to operate on and you would think they would let the AM window be.

73, Harvey

What happened to all the recorders :-)  :D

If this is happening REGULARLY, _and_ if we (the AM operators) were really there *first*, just roll "tape" (or digital) or whatever.  Collect evidence.   Ask "them" to move because they're interfering with an existing QSO, net, etc.  If they won't, collect a few nights of evidence and send it in to Riley.  If they pretend they don't hear you, have someone who has the capability go over to sideband and call them.   Most likely, you'll get an answer.  The key to success is to start the recording *before* the interference starts.

I would do this if I operated with any sort of regularity.  I often have the digital recorder going when I'm on a clear frequency, and I expect trouble.  In particular, with something like the Grey Hair Net or the DX-60 net or whatever, if the interference is regular and the net (or pre-net) were in progress when the interference started, a recording should present good evidence of what happened.

I have some recordings of the knuckle draggers from 3878 telling me "I have to operate in the AM window of 3885".  Unfortunately, I did not have the recording going BEFORE the interference started, so any evidence I presented would be pretty slim.  There would be nothing to indicate I was there first.  But, eventually I'll have what I need  8)

Regards,

Steve

The dumb landers only respond to one threat QRO and ignor

Many years ago, I developed a full-band baseband RF recorder for these little instances. I can't remember what I did with the original unit (I may have parted it back out again, it was just a curiousity project at the time).

The unit consists of a VCR, an external sync generator, and a DBM. The average VCR can record frequencies approaching 5MHz on standard tape (up to 7MHz on cobalt-doped S-VHS tape). With the right freq conversion, you can squeeze all of any given HF band on one tape. You need to use SP or LP speeds, as EP causes the helical swaths to overlap (acceptible for an NTSC signal, not for an NTSC-width band containing many signals in many modes).

The sync generator is needed for tracking purposes, since VCR tapes are printed helically, not linearly; and since there's no NTSC signal, a replacement for the vertical sync pulse is needed to keep the helical tracks consistent.

Outside the sync function, a VCR simply records and plays back RF from 0 to 5Mhz.

Recording our own conversations is one thing, but recording the entire band (to later demodulate at our leisure) can be FAR more effective, since you can then go back and listen to what these guys were saying to each other (no matter what frequency or mode). They almost always coordinate their jamming activities, and are usually stupid enough to do it on the air. A lot of truly damning statements are usually uttered by these clowns when they think nobody's listening.

I'll hunt around and see if I can find the unit, or at least the drawings for it. I'm sure I could drastically improve on it given the better technology available today.

Just a thought.

--Thom
Keep Away One Zorched Ground Conductor

Why can't we find a new home and stay away from the trouble spots? I know we should never "give up", but if it's going to raise blood pressure and make Hamming a pain in the arse, then it might be time to find another "window"
I could never understand the mentality of the SSB folks, who probably read our posts here, and this stupid war between SSB and AM. We're just using another mode.
Fred

no dumb lander changes my blood pressure. I find it quite motivating.

So many AM ops of late have adopted the appliance channelized approach and simply must operate exactly on a channel. This makes it easier for QRM to happen. This is just as bad as a PW station going on forever. 

One of the things that is making it even worse now is the current propagation condx. 20 is dead, especially at night, 40 at night is packed with broadcashters, and many dont have room for a 160 antenna. This puts every arsole in the world (at least on our side of it) on 75/80 meters if they want to play a little night time radio.

If conditions were a little better, the warring factions would / could move around a little. But since they cant go anywhere, this only makes the turf wars even worse.

After all, this makes for a lot of hams in a little piece of spectrum. This is the poifict combination for the ground to rumble. However, this is still no reason for hostilities, "dead air groups" and other bad operating practices. This seems to come to a head every weekend when everyone wants to play a little radio, but there is nowhere to go and do it. Many feel that we take up too much spectrum (space that they could use instead). So, like Frank (GFZ) says: "Strap and ignore", and keep on doin what your doin!! If you ignore them long enough they will eventually go away.
                                                      The Slab Bacon  

The dumb landers are also trying their best on 160 but the class e rig
takes them right out without breaking a sweat..
I can always run a coax over to the HP3325 and go into SBE mode if they get me going. Lotta big rigs on so they only bother the PW sigs a bit.

Paul,

What an insulting inference about Homar and the gang.

I heard the goings on last night including what I thought was a very tactful request that they slide down a bit. One of them agreed that they would move 1 KC.


(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/060228/060228_simpsons_hmed_4p.hmedium.jpg)

It's not like we haven't tried that, Fred. Read the thread entitled "3712 KC".

No good deed goes unpunished.

--Thom
King Abraham One Zebraham George Charlie

Thom,

I'd be very interested in having a look at your VCR notes if you do in fact find them, sounds like a fascinating toy to play with even aside from busting yokels!

-Jason kf6pqt

Wonder if it would also work with a DVD-R recorder?  I see that they are now showing up at the big box retailers at <$100.

Did the same thing about 15 years ago at work. A 5 MHz bandwidth was pushing it. But what really sucked was the dynamic range - maybe 30 dB on a good day. Wideband analog recorders generally suck.

But during a typical slopbucket war you are not digging for rare weak signal DX.

Steve: Not looking for fidelity per se, just a running snapshot of what's happening on the band. It would be one way of going back in time to see what was going on elsewhere on the band prior to a given event. 5 meg is probably pushing it at the normal head speed, but if you're no longer recording an NTSC baseband product, these rates become much more flexible. There's wiggle room there. Besides, for the average HF band, 500 kc is all you really need (if you even need that much).

Don: Not really. DVDs don't record the modulation product, they specifically record digital video information. VCRs are a garbage-in-garbage-out medium. They simply demodulate the AM envelope of an incoming NTSC signal, strip and separate the the audio subcarrier, and print the result to tape, one diagonal swath per scan line of video. Tracking pulses are printed on a linear track at the bottom of the tape, and space is left at the top of the tape for one or two linear audio tracks (which almost nobody uses anymore, most audio is encoded in an (19 kHz?) FM envelope staggered between the video tracks, which is the "Hi-fi" extension).

Phil: Keep those constructive comments coming.

I just stuck my head in the closet where all my old projects now live. If the unit's still in there, it would proabably take me longer to find it than to just make another one. I forgot how much of this crap I still have laying around!

Maybe I can still find the drawings, but it's a pretty straightforward mod. Just used an SBL-1 (or maybe it was an SRA-1) for the mixer, old-buzzard frequency meter for the LO, fed the result to the composite video inpoot, and I forget what I did for the tracking pulses. I may have used something internal, I forget. This is all 10-15 years ago now.

Like Steve said: it doesn't work great, but it does work.

In this day-and-age, a digital approach would probably work better, but a tape printed in this way is almost impossible to fake, unlike digital recordings. That's helpful when it comes time to present evidence of wilfull and malicious misconduct.

Besides, what else are you going to do with that VCR besides pay for the permission to throw it out? You should get extra carbon credits for being such a Good AMerican!

--Thom
Kilimanjaro Africa One Zulu Goat Cheese

Truer words were never spoken, but we also have 2 meter CB to go along with 75 meter CB.

                                          K1MVP   

I understand the requirement Tom and Don. The dynamic range has nothing to do with weak signals. If one slopbucket is 50 over 9 and another is 20 over, you've exceed the DR of the system. Neither of those would be considered weak signals. That said, being able to record the entire band is kinda cool.

Since the problems occur on one frequency (generally), a narrowband audio recorder will do the job. Audio into the VCR audio channel is a nice cheap way to get up to six hours of recording time.

But none of this matters since the world is coming to an end.

Carry on.

Like it or not AMers are in a turf war with the slopbuckets.Some from the existing groups 3892,3878,3875,and last but not least 3872.Some from groups that just move in from another group that got to crowded  and sit right on 3885 and start a QSO.Well we all know what would happen if AMers would do the same thing on their frequency even if it werent occupied at the time.There would be all this bitching and moaning on how they had been on this frequency for the last 20 years and you were an invader and you should go back to where you belong (refering to the AM window which they interpret as 3885 only) .The next time a slopbucket  group sets up shop on a deserted 3885 I need to tell them to move on ;AMers have been on this frequency for 65 years.( correct me if I am off a few years).   Any way getting to the point of all this rambling.The point is the grass is not greener on the other side of the fence.We should take that stick and draw a line in the sand and protect the ghetto (just like the slopbuckets protect their precious frequencies) with our continued presents,or we will lose this turf war.

How well do automatic notch filters work on old poorly designed AM transmitters that FM a little bit?

Yeah, the "Wobulator". I think we tried that once on 3870. No effect. There was a dead-air SSB group that hung out there a few years back. You could monitor all night and only hear a word or two from them every 30 mins. or so. They used the frequency like an intercom, probably keep their rigs tuned there all the time, so if they hear something, they start up.

same as it ever was, same as it ever was.....

I've been looking for phase-lock-loop drift-frequency-oscillators for 75 meters.  Know of any skizmatics?

Thanks, Tom

The only way to beat'em is to strap'em.

As Frank AHE says...... don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

                         PSO  programable stepping oscilator????     

 I GUESS that  ssb rcvrs that have a 'tracking' notch filter follow the offending carrier as it drifts/moves.....  A vfo that steps, say 100Hz, every 1s, may be of interest.  I dont think(know) that the rcvr can track this. The unit randomly steps accross a band of, say 600 Hz; would be well inside of the AMers passband. And there is no FMmm as the sig is not modulated ( not  that it matrs ).

La frecuencia ducha con multiple carriers steppin out would be glorious.....

Back in the 60's W4EBG and myself each equipped our stations with a "wobbulator".  Mine consisted of a small (approx 5 pf) butterfly capacitor coupled to a 3 or 4 rpm motor, and connected across the VFO coil.  Con's used a small metal paddle connected to the shaft of about a 100 rpm motor, that swept by the VFO tube.  Mine shifted the frequency over a range of about 1 kHz, enough to make it impossible for the slopbuckets to ride the carrier, but not enough to move the signal out of the passband of a typical AM receiver.

We both got citations from the FCC for "simultaneous amplitude and frequency modulation".  I responded that the "frequency modulation" was not simultaneous because the AM was voice modulation while the FM appeared as a slow drift about every 15 seconds, and that many AM signals on the air at the time drifted and wobbled more than mine (the Knight T-150, for example), many in step with the voice modulation as the modulator current caused the voltage to the VFO to sag.

Ben Waple of the FCC responded that yes, the intent of the rule was to prohibit voice modulated FM of an AM transmitter, usually resulting from too little isolation between the oscillator and the modulated stage (the SBE effect, such as from a modulated oscillator or a stock BC-375 transmitter), but that the FCC was interpreting that the rule was not "so limited", and that they interpreted the rules as not to allow one to deliberately adjust their transmitter to conform to the "worst example" of typical on-the-air signals.

But in today's Part 97 that rule has been deleted, along with the prohibition of modulation "beyond 100%".  There used to be a specific section that made it illegal to run a modulated oscillator.  That one has also been deleted. Those changes were the result  of Docket 20777, even though the proposed "subband by bandwidth" proposal similar to the recent ARRL petition was not adopted.

But I think the idea of shifting frequency at random intervals in random steps might be more effective against automatic notch filters.  Has anyone had any experience with how much time it takes for those things to seek out a nearby carrier and lock onto it? 

This should be easy to set up with a DDS VFO.

Sorry Don, my mod iron is toast or I'd have been down there below 3750 also. Seems very few have to ability or desire to escape the crap from above, or prefer pissing and moaning. Other than the guys north of the border, how many folks did you hear with regularity below 3800? 5? 6? Seems like the 'small space so many have to share' gets reduced even further, by choice these days.

The 'not-quite-zero-beat' works best with break-in, as long buzzardly transmissions give the troublemakers ample opportunity to re-zero and place their signal under yours. With several stations on the frequency, some a little high, some a little low, it makes it a lot less attractive to the troublemakers. Particularly if no one gives them the satisfaction of a response.

The fact that there are idiots throughout the bands doesn't mean everyone has to scurry back up to one sliver of spectrum, though. Multiple groups around the band are much harder to target than a couple of huge groups stuck on the same 2 frequencies night after night. 

It must make too much sense?  ;)


You got it, Buddly! But there's nothing wrong with bringing a knife to a gunfight, so long as you have a big gun to whip out when the time comes.

Running low power on 75 at night makes about as much sense as taking a whiz on an electric fence: you can do it, but it won't be much fun. :D

Up here in the frozen tundra of southern NH we decided many years ago that we would not be blown off the band and we will not be bullied. If just one of those morons would ask I would gladly move if they actually have a net scheduled but they do not. The frequency can be dead quiet and if you fire up on AM and ask if the frequency is in use they will jump on it and insult you for taking the breath and asking. This is like arguing with liberals. Might as well talk to the wall. There is only one cure QRO, QRO, QRO!!!! It's time for you to build that big rig you always wanted. If your afraid of radios that can kill you just go over to the Class-E site and build one of those simple transmitters. You Can Do It. Operate 75 at night with 50 watts? Wasting your time and ours. Go For It, PLEASE! It's For the Children.....

After much contemplation, I must say I resent your comments and the attempt to exaggerate the way we sound down here in "Moron Land" as so many have put it.  I am an AM'er, and have been for quite some time, and there are a LOT of other AM'ers in the so called "moron land".  I happen to be very cognizant of the way "we" sound to you folks in the North, but no one should mimick anyone for an accent just because there are some bad apples in that particular area.

And, by using the term "Texarkana slopbuckets", it's obvious where the "moron landers" are to you and others in this thread.

Someone brought this issue up just a week or so ago on the AMRadio email list, and now I'm starting to see why he did.

So, tell me, what and where exactly is "moron land"?  This sort of crap needs to stop man!  We should try to pull together as fellow AM'ers, not make blanket fun of accents and the like of people in other parts of the country.

Have a GREAT day!

Brian / w5ami

As a participant both in this thread and the episode two weeks ago on the reflector, I can assure you that I don't see it that way, Brian. I doubt many (if any) here do. I suspect Joe intended his remarks towards the offending SSBers and not AMers or thoughtful people in general but, as with any blanket statement referring to geography, heritage, ethnicity or any number of factors, it happens. I'm sure that at some point I've been guilty of this myself, it's easy to disregard the potential impact until after the words are said and you realize you could have used better words, left something out, not attempted to translate your version of a redneck/hillbilly SSBer's words. 'Stupid' is everywhere, not just in certain states.

I know you're not one to be thin-skinned, Brian. You're pretty patient and easy-going from all I've seen and heard of you. So to get to this point, it's obviously been building up and wearing on you over time. I get a similar feeling when I tell folks I'm from Vermont and they roll their eyes because of all the socialist stupidity going on here now, letting child molesters go free and the rest. It's hard to make them understand immediately that you're not 'one of them', and considering the crap that now goes on in this once-very traditional state, I can relate to their frustration at us.

So before we implode and only do harm to the AM community, I hope everyone will be more cognizant of how they state things so as not to include friends in the mix. I also hope you'll see Joe's frustration and intent in his post. I'm the furthest thing from being 'politically correct' you'll probably find, but I do believe we can do a bit better.

At the risk of restarting the civil war, Here is my $.02 worth.

Brian, I totally agree with you, that we as fellow AMers should unite and stick together. Infighting amongst ourselves will definately weaken our stand against "them". "Them" being the ssb operators that would just as soon push us off into the ocean. But..............

Keep in mind that I live in Baltimore, that puts me (at least for listening purposes) somewhere close to the middle for listening propagation. And I spend a lot more time listening than transmitting.
With the exception of the Macaroni net goofballs, most of the nasty ill manered, ill natured ssb operators that have qwermed my QSOs have had similar accents to the ones mentioned. This may only be a coincidence??

I have also enjoyed listening to (and joining in when they could hear me) the Southeastern AM club's nets on 3885. They act like a fine bunch of gentlemen. But they dont seem to take anywhere as much heat from the ssb operators as we do further up north. Hmmmm...............?? Is this just coincidental?? I have often wondered.

I have spent a lot of time also listening to the idiots that have jammed or qwermed us, and some of the "dead air nets" as a general rule (if they use any calls at all) they will usually have 4, 5, or 8 calls. And all they seem to talk about is their rice boxes and how big their amplifiers are. (is this just an extension of their manhood?) I have no problem with the "accent" as long an others dont have a problem with mine (or lack thereof).

We are supposed to be one country The UNITED States of America. With the largest common bond of all being the use of 1 common language. So why as we as fellow AMers unite and stop fighting amongst ourselves?? The love of AM and real radio should be the common bond that keeps us together. I often wonder why this cant apply to hams in general.

                                             The Slab Bacon

Brian, I regret that you took my re-creation of SSB QRMers dialogue as a slur against Southerners, Texans, or any other regional-accented person, and I apologize if this is how it came across. We have had specific problems with SSB ops from that region, which is why it has been mentioned by me. It is not their accent, but their style of operating that is the problem. The dead-air SSB groups populate all available spectrum between 3860 and 3895 here in So Cal. AMers are not able to operate in our "AM Window" until late at night when the SSB groups have gone to bed.  It is to the point where a lot of AMers (including me) just don't bother getting on the air anymore. Slab, you are correct that we should be sticking together rather than dividing against each other. I just wish there were a little more respect for AMers right to have a calling frequency.

Just remember what Benjamin Disraeli said in his famous quotes:

This reminds me of a cute story from many years ago:

Myself and a friend were chit-chatting locally on 10m ssb one night, when unbeknownst to us the band opened w-i-d-e. The next thing we knew we were getting harassed by a group that told us to "get out of here with those 3 calls". We fell right into a let from La. that was having another local net. The one that harassed us the worst had one of those "accents" and sounded like he was a bit intoxicated. After mich pissing and moaning I was able to reassure him that just because he was from the south and I was from the north didnt mean that his neck was any redder than mine, and that I could drink just as much beer and kick just as much ass as he could. (which was no problem in my younger days)

After making our points clear they let us into "their net" and we got passed around like a $2 hooker at an office party. We all had a geally great time!! As the net was closing down way into the wee hours of the morning, they all wished us a best 73 and invited us to come back "with our 3 calls" any time that we were able to hear them. A really good time was had by all!! It was a great night of radio for all of us!!

I'll have to look at my log (I used to keep one back then) and see if i can find their calls.  
      
                                            The Slab Bacon

Brian,

I don't think he was making  fun of the way most of us sound down here, but the way some of the slopbucket groups sound with their exaggerated accents and "I take pride in my ignorance" attitude, once were so notorious on CB, that has now spilt over into ham radio.  I have never listened to the Texarkana group, but the "buzz-saw SSB commentary" sounds precisely like what I hear on 3878 kHz.

I would hope that most hams from 4 and 5 land don't sound quite so ignorant to the rest of the world as do the Wally and Richard crowd.

Do we all sound like this (http://redstateupdate.blogspot.com/)?

Actually Don, to us Canadians, you sound like a right Southern Gentleman!  ;)

Further, a quote from the immortal Emil Faber, founder of Faber College:

There are some strong "southern style" accents found far north of the Mason Dixon.  I grew up on the MS gulf coast and I used to be pretty good at distinguishing between a lot of the regional accents in the MS, AL, GA, TN, NC region but there is also a generic "hick" accent that is often associated with the south but it seems to be non-region specific.  I recall in particular I was spending some time in the Smokies (Cosby, TN area) a few years ago and felt some bizarre urge to actually visit Gatlinburg (everybody has a stupid thought now and then).  I took advantage of the park and ride tram and found myself on the same tram as an "extended" family of about 20 people with the strongest accents I have ever heard.  I assumed they must be from deep in Appalachia based upon the sound.  The fact that they were all very upset and blaming each other over their shortage of liquor and the difficulty of obtaining more on Sunday further reinforced my stereotyping.  But then they began discussing how they would have plenty of whiskey when they returned back home to Urbana/Champaign.  As far as I know there is only one Urbana/Champaign and it is the home of the University of Illinois and is about 45 miles from my QTH in central IL.   

I do find it "interesting" that rural southern whites are the last minority group for which it is politically correct or acceptable to belittle.  My vote for nicest sounding accent is that found in the sawgrass region of GA with some of the NC accents running a very close second.

Rodger WQ9E

I do not know how we got here but I need to address some issues that have been festering over the last few weeks so bear with me, I need to be clear on a few things and this thread seems to be the lucky one.

This was a thread about SSB gaining in the Ghetto ( you know,the so called AM window that does not exist but we insist on fighting about it anyway because some won't move) and we ended up in moron land (where ever the hell that is but apparently they have accents, that certainly narrows it down). ???

QTF??

I think it is unfair to assume that when you get 1585 diverse people from around the world together on one forum that everyone is going to feel warm and fuzzy. I am sure there will be misunderstandings and argumentative stances. Why shouldn't there be? This community is no different than any other but we are HAMS. We are supposed to be good COMMUNICATORS (a term the seems to be lacking from time to time ).

This is a site on the internet. It has no regions, accents, call districts, it is global ( I have to admit we might have morons ;)). It is visited weekly by over 40 countries. It is World Wide, just like our hobby - - Radio.

Radio has no boundaries. The only boundaries it has are those set up by some regulatory group that needs to generate money so it can exist. But radio remains world wide with no boundaries.

This site has no boundaries except those each user decides to invoke.

There has been a lot of public whining on the AM boards as of late and I really don't know why. What I do know is public infighting is NOT in anyone's best interest wherever it comes from and it is certainly not in our best interests.

This site gains around 60 posts per day. It would be impossible for the moderators to read every word of every post. We depend on each user to help us with the moderation of this site. If you see something that you feel may not be in our best interest hit the link in the lower right hand of the post labeled "Report to Moderator" .

If we don't know about a problem, we can't help to resolve it. Communicate!


In closing,

If I offended anyone with my post it wasn't intentional.
If I seemed to refer to any region  -- I didn't mean too
If I wrote with an accent - -  sorry, I have one
If your post was not answered - - Mine don't get answered either.
If I appear to be taking this lightly -- I am not
If I seem frustrated, short, embarrassed and fed up with all this petty ass crap -- I SURE AM.

G

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming - - - - -

wally and richard.

pretty much says it all.

The "Wally and Richard" group from 3.878 has done more to damage the relations between am and ssb groups than just about any other bunch!! They have deliberatly done everything they could to qwerm us if they can hear us. I have heard them deliberately use upper sideband just to push us  "back up into the window" if we wander a little below 3.880. this is certainly not a friendly move.

G,
      I agree with you whole heartedly, as fellow AMers we should unite instead of fighting amongst ourselves. As a group we have quite a bit of power to get things done, as individuals that power is very significantly diminished. The "accents" really dont mean anything except a reflection of where you are located. We all have one of some kind.

With more than 1500 people here, it would be just about impossible for everyone to agree on every issue. Good luck!! however the debate over a topic is certainly the fun of it all. Everyone has an  opinion (just like that certain part of the anatomy) and many are different. We all need to "learn to disagree agreeably". this keeps the bebate fun and interesting. After all this is the AM forum.

If we could stop the fighting between the AMers and the SSB operators, the world (at least of ham radio) would certainly be a better place to live in. Infighting does no good for any group, and I have seen many fall apart because of it. I'd hate to see it happen here!!

                                            The Slab Bacon

All,
It's not just the lower end of the "ghetto" lately. (4 land)
I've heard plenty of Northeast SSB activity on 3888 (1 and 2 land)
Not sure where they came from, etc.  Perhaps recent upgrades.
Heard them several nites ago speaking about regularly using the freq.
BTW it was not fearless Fred and his merry men of Marconi.

I disagree. Brian's point addressed a clear issue that was inclusive by its wording, regardless of intent. Joe addressed this kindly and intelligently.

In fairness Jim, Phil did say 'for some people'. Not everyone in the south, 5-Land or otherwise. If you take his words as a direct insult in this particular case, I'd have to say that you are being a bit thin-skinned, oversensitive, looking for trouble, or specifically in the group of 'some' he mentioned. He took care to same 'some', please don't try to translate that to 'all'. 

And in the interest of equal time, we've been piling onto Phil in another thread he started about 'dorkspeak', so we are indeed Equal Opportunity' here. ;)

As G (the guy with the Sorryexcuse, NY accent) said, we're human, we make mistakes, we have bigger fish to fry, and so on. If an insult is made, intentionally or otherwise, it needs to be addressed (and was, in this case). If someone is predisposed to feeling picked on and insulted, nothing short of walking on eggshells is going to make them happy. An observation, for better or worse: Most AMers have large feet. We manage to fit them in our mouths on occasion, and the eggshell approach is doomed to failure, fortunately.

Again, sorry the focus went on the accents rather than the behavior. Attached is an audio sample from last night's W. Coast AM net.

 Jim I heard the group you are talking about.There was another group trying to set up shop on 3883 about a week ago and they were talking about staying permantly.I cranked up the slop bucket rig and joined the conversation.I was real nice to them give my call,but I explained   that they were in the  AM window and only 2 kcs from the AM calling frequency and I wasnt trying to tell them where to operate,but if you stay here there would be a radio war here.They said they were not aware this was the AM window let alone they were 2 kcs from any call frequency much less the AM call frequency .The ask me where they might start a group and I gave them a couple of tipps(far from the AM window of course).Havnt heard them since,Hope I did a good thing.I havnt got around to talking to the 3888 wantabees yet but if no one else does it in the next few days I will. Chances are I wont get such a warm welcome 2 times in a row.Its a dirty job but some bodys gotta do it.Come on guys I could use some help here,or do I need to be  to be a one ham wrecking crew.Oh well what ever it takes to get "R" done.     And yes I am down here where we talk like this.I was born and raised in Ashville NC and my Hillbilly redneck accent is not exagerated, its how I talk in person so thats what get on the radio.I have only had one ham not talk to not talk to me because of my accent accent.I didnt realize   why he said {iI dont talk to trouble makers} and signed off at the time,untill I heared him  do that to another southern gentelman who was just trying to be freindly.Then a few weeks later heared him do it again and I was sure.This was most interesting to me because it was the first time I had ever encountered this type of bigitry.Thank god its not like  that in the AM window.If your on AM and act like a gentelman {or a lady}you will will get treated like a brother {or a sister} and it dont make no difference what yer accent is.By the way this incedent happend before  I got on AM  when all I had was a slopbucket rig .I wanted to talk to someone so I checked in the macaronie net.The so called tecnical advisor is the one who treated me in such a fassion and net controle stood by and let it happen .Then dropped me out of the next rotation. This happened two nights in a row in the same fassion.The  so called advisor has  since been run off of 75 meters by 2 so called AM bullies.       My heros.

Sorry about the studering my computer was acting funny.Iguess you guys know that the maceronies website is full of blasts and slurs and personal attacks from the net control aimed at the AM comunity.He done a reacant poll attacking some of our members.We need a spy so I joined his silly macaronie group.He doesnt remember who I am I guess.I wont be a spy long if he gets wind of this,but thats ok that would get rid of a lot of email I have to delete every day.        (Know Thy Enemy)

In my experience you can always catch more flies with honey rather than vinegar.

I never realized I had a Minnesota accent until I moved to the east coast  ;D

Joe et al;

Joe I accept your apology completely, and feel I should have simply bit my lips and not said anything myself.

As I've said before here and other forums, I'm as guilty as anyone of reading too much between the lines, in particular email, letters, etc.  I think is was more the "moronland" thing that got under my skin than the interpretation of some thick southern accent.  Oh, and I do have a thick one, not an Alabama or Georgia type, but a real Arkie/Tex one ;)

I want to say again that I should have kept my mouth shut and slept on it before I complained.  I like to try my best to be fair and non-judgmental.  I've managed the AMRadio Reflector for many years with pretty good success, but I do slip up from time to time and speak my mind when I should have just left well enough alone.

I want to see amfone.net and the AMRadio Reflector continue to be great resources for the AM'er as they have for years, and it's the great members and visitors that make that possible.

Thanks es 73
Brian / w5ami

 Did some lisening last night the slop bucket group on 3888 (they were on 3889 last night) is a splinter group from 3892.I have my share of run ins with this group.They like to come down on 3885 and make snide comments on ssb always without giving thier call.Have you aver listened to that group?One guy every time he signs his call he follows it by saying( and AM is trash).About a month ago I was talking to a freind on 3885 in the afternoon and one of their group kept making his coments to the point of jaming  us.I am sort of a hot head so I went to 3892 and SIGNED MY CALL and ask them to stop.I got cussed out of course . Boy what language.I kept my cool give them an old buzzard transmission on good amature practice , which was followed by another cussing session (no foul words came out of my mouth).They told me AM was trash and should have been outlawed 25 years ago.Well we know how they feel.I dont think reasoning with these guys will do any good.I think we need to make it misserable for them to be there.Thats my redneck perspective anyway.

the only way to deal with slopbuckets is to strap them into the ground. Nothing like  +60 over 9 to make them shut up and go away.  I noticed a big difference in slopbucket qrm from when I ran the DERB-100 and after I got the homebrew rig built. the extra 300+ watts seemed to make more difference than it should have.

looking at my antenna options now. wondering about coax vs 16 gauge ladder line. Like to run a 160 meter dipole with ladder and a KW TUNER, if I cant do that, then maybe coax fed something horizontal delta loop cloud burner. I gotta refresh my memory on options.

I've had fun in the past having a phone call with a station I'm working under heavy conditions of jamming, while we turn down both receivers and each key up with our parts of the conversation.

With Skype and other VOIP these days, any number can play !!!

You could really wear them out with blissful ignorance of any bait they drop.

Interestingly, since the phone band expansion, now that there is plenty of room on 75 for everyone to operate without getting into anyone else's hair,  I have noticed an increase in slopbucket hostility.  Evidently a lot of SSB operators think we shouldn't be in the expanded portion or anywhere else outside of the Ghetto.  I have had slopbuckets to deliberately drop on top of my QSO's both in the advanced segment and the extra.  Right after the expansion, there was some character who would transmit CW on top of any AM QSO in the Extra segment, sending over and over "AM go away. AM illegal here."

I now believe the white noise signal on 3712 is a jammer.  I was on about 3710 last night.  The band had been completely vacant for over 20 minutes.  Jack in Illinois came on and called CQ.  I answered him, and we carried on for about 10 minutes, and then the digital trash came right on top of us.  I zero'ed my carrier right smack in the middle of the noise and made a long O.B. transmission.  When I finished, the noise was gone, but a couple of slopbuckets from 8-land were about 2 kc/s up band making derisive remarks about AM.  Then someone dropped what sounded like a SSTV signal on top of us.  No ID was given.  I believe that when running SSTV, you are required to ID on phone or CW, unless the FCC has deleted that requirement.  They seem to just drop out of nowhere whenever there is an AM QSO in the vicinity of 3710, but I have yet to hear any kind of ID.  And there is a dead-air group from 5-land that operates down in the vicinity of 3685, and makes it a habit to start up on top of any AM signal they hear there.

In the meantime, up in the Ghetto,  it sounds to me that there are more jammer slopbuckets than I ever remember before 15DE06.  I have listened to the 3892 group, and Pissing and Moaning about AM seems to be one of their primary topics of conversation.  Last night I was listening, and there  were SSB signals trying to carry on conversations on both 3889 and 3883, despite the fact that an AM group had been using 3885 for well over an hour. 

Evidently someone has it in their heads the idea of starting up the old 60's era AM vs SSB wars on 75 again.

good. I'll get on and strap with my 4 572 B's and swing that munky. I'm thinking coax fed cloud burner delta loop now. I wanna b the radical AM terrorist to about 300~400 miles out, then quit.

Don, I have heard you S-9 or better here in Los Angeles many times over the years working in the 75m ghetto late at night. Often, yours is the only sig that is copyable in what I assume is a roundtable of E Coast stations. What is your antenna system?

Half wave dipole for 80m, apex 119' high, ends 100' high, fed with open wire tuned feeders with antenna tuner at the base of the tower.

The tower is 127' tall, base insulated and also used as a quarter-wave vertical for 160m, with 120 quarter-wave radials for that band. I have loaded it up as a  half wave vertical on 75, but couldn't tell much difference from the dipole.

Actually, especially late at night, Don carries on by himself quite well.

The rest of us have gone to bed, but he won't know it for another 12-18 mins. as he wraps up a transmission.

Paul said:
 Heh, heh.;) Actually, in response to Don's suggestion to 'break-out' of the ghetto, I tossed a crystal in MK-214D and had a nice QSO with him at 3743. The QRN was getting pretty nasty at his end but it was great having an unmolested two-way radio conversation. (Please excuse the use of Dorkspeak,....ooops sorry wrong thread ;)

From about 7-1030 PM ET last night, 3885 was mostly unmolested and absolutely clear most of the time. We had a great group in there and it seemed to be going on strong when I split. Strength in number and big signals.

Mike: I heard those clowns on 3889 later on. There weren't really bothering anyone on 85, but I'm guessing they are a good deal louder down your way. They sure did have some nasty sounding audio - probably on purpose in an attempt to splatter on 85. Same BS, different day.

The ghetto seems to quiet down as the evening rolls on. Of course, with summer conditions getting closer, the entire band will be more of a challenge to operate.

I dug out a spare mod transformer over the weekend, just need to figure out what kind of pins or plugs it uses, and how to hook it up. If all goes well, I should be able to throw my signal back into the mix soon.

SHHHH!

Slopbuckets monitor this forum, too.  Let them figure that out for themselves.  Or even when they are really not having an impact, they will just assume that's what we are doing, and keep on jamming because they think they are being effective and driving us to the internet.

Jack, Don, these are the operators I recorded & reported to Riley last year...I haven't been able to operate much lately, but, for a short while, reporting them got a reprieve from their foul language & interference...I suppose they're back, as reported here.  Best time I've found to record them is on a Friday or Saturday night, when they've been drinking- you get some real good violations then!  REPORT THE B@$T@RD$!