Electric heat

[WA1GFZ]

Today our bill came for the first electric heat test in the new QTH. at first XYL freaked 37 bucks but we gave it some thought. The usual bill during the winter is $21 a month with about half actual usage and the other half stupid feas. So now we have $16 used from Friday night to Sunday afternoon. The house was 43 degrees Friday night when we arrived and we also filled the hot water heater and took showers.
During the winter the power bill here runs about $120 with oil heat and hot water.
So $8 a day sounds cheap to me for everything. I bought all the parts to install electric heat for about $600, while oil may have been 10 times that much. We do about 750 gallons of oil here that must run about $2K these days and we have to clean the opec monster and have space for a couple fuel tanks.
Everyone I know with electric heat and good insulation thinks it is a good deal.....
 I agree. 

[W1RKW]

Frank,
I don't have a permanent set up for my recently acquired solar collectors yet  but today they were producing above 200 degrees of hot h20.  They weren't even at an opitimum solar angle either.  Can't wait to get them situatated and operating full time.

[k4kyv]

Al Gore recently planned to have solar panels installed on the roof of his new house in Belle Meade, a swanky upper-income neighbourhood in Nashville.  The zoning board told him that would be illegal because solar panels are "electric power generating" devices, and the local zoning ordinance requires all electric power generating equipment to be located at ground level.

Electricity used to be the most expensive way to heat.  With the price of oil once again on the increase, there is now less difference between the cost of burning natural gas/propane/heating oil, and electricity.  With a well-insulated house, electric heat has become price competitive, especially if a heat pump is used.

[K3ZS]

Heatpump is the way to go.   Our electric bill is around $120 in the winter, including heatpump heat and electric hotwater.   We use about 1/4 tank of oil a year as backup.    Having a coal fired electric utility helps.    We are in central PA where the winters are not very warm or sunny.   I know someone that runs a large B&B who has an open-loop geothermal heatpump system.    It runs them about $500 a year to heat and cool.   Bring on home rechargeable cars for the many urban commuters who burn most of their gas sitting still in traffic, I believe this would cut down oil consumption dramatically.    Ethanol seems like a waste but is good for agriculture.

[WA1GFZ]

I think it is great the farmers will make out growing corn. I would rather they get my money over some middle eastern nut case. My next truck will burn E85.
Heat pumps are great once you pay for them.
Bob, Now you need to find a way to store that hot water. Maybe you could get a car radiator and circulate the water into the house through the radiator. A few muffin fans blowing through the radiator. A friend bought a damaged water heater for the tank to use as storage. It was a gas unit and the burner was trashed.
I hope to put something on the roof at the beach place. I have 100 foot of pvc well pipe under the basement slab as a head storage mass.

[W3SLK]

Frank, here PPL announced that they were going to raise rates, (again). Its all part of that vicious circle, the price of fuel goes up so naturally the price of electricity follows along with farm goods. I understand that the price of a gallon of milk is going up about 60¢/gal. Also, I'm glad for the production of ethanol in this country. This is just the shot in the arm the farmers need. The only problem is that ethanol is only about 60% efficient as gasoline. So you will wind up burning about twice as much to go from point A to point B.

[WA1GFZ]

Mike,
I know corn smash doesn't have the same strap as gas. Look at the whole picture. I don't know a single farmer who wants to destroy America, How much of that money we save on gas is wasted dealing with the middle eastern losers. The sooner we cut off their money flow the better off we will be. Let China deal with these idiots cooked by too much sun.
Remember the drag strip classes. Gas, Alcohol, Nitro

Buy American and protect your neighbor's job.

[Ed KB1HVS]

Hi Doug. You just described my house to a T ( no pool). I finished the basement in 91 so the size is actually closer to 2200 square ft living space. Everything is electric. My bills run about $240 a month which to me is crazy. I do have a teenage daughter who empties out the hotwater heater though.    . Woodoline for heat may be in the future.

[WA1GFZ]

This place is 6 room 1500 feet and new place is 6 rooms 1340 feet.
Here Ii used to burn 2 ton a year and also keep the basement at 80. I was burning about 400 gallons of oil. Now without coal it is up around 750 gallons but basement goes into the high 50s when it gets cold. coal was nice when it was cheap but when my ss chimbley crapped out I couldn't see investing $1K to replace it.
We have 130 square feet of glass facing south here that really does the job when the sun is out and there is a reflection off the snow. New place we have about 80 square feet of glass facing south. Solar heat rocks!.

[KB2WIG]

Pd $442 for gas/electric last month.... (Feb).... no kids or space cadets at home........ klc

[AF9J]

Have fun with it.  Where I live (the Milwaukee metro area), gas with 10% ethanol in it has been required by law (for air pollution reasions) for years.  Everybody hates it.  The gas mileage is worse by a fair amount than pure gas for fuel.  As a result, we end up burning more fuel, than we did when straight gas was used, spend more on fuel, and end making the same amount of pollution we did before.  Oh yeah, and it costs more too.

73,
Ellen - AF9J

Mike,
I know corn smash doesn't have the same strap as gas. Look at the whole picture. I don't know a single farmer who wants to destroy America, How much of that money we save on gas is wasted dealing with the middle eastern losers. The sooner we cut off their money flow the better off we will be. Let China deal with these idiots cooked by too much sun.
Remember the drag strip classes. Gas, Alcohol, Nitro

Buy American and protect your neighbor's job.

[K3ZS]

You do have to consider the costs of the heatpump.   I have a total parts a labor service contract for 10 years.    My cost to own is $300 a year figuring it will crap out at 10 years.  The last one I had lasted 12 years, with a 10 year warranty.    When we built our house in the early 70's we insulated "for electric heat", even though we had oil hot air heat.    I got hot air because I thought in the future it could be converted to something else.    At 16 cents/gallon, no one really needed too much insulation.   My first new car was a 1995 Honda Accord.    Still runs like a new car, wish the Chevys that I had were as long lasting.    I would think E85 pricing would be cheaper than gas because of its energy content.   Look at what the oil companies have done with the price of diesel oil.   Even though it is less refined, they have priced in the increase in mpg you get with it, so there is no advantage to using it.

[AF9J]

I sort of doubt E-85 would be cheaper.  Making ethanol is very energy intensive (you use almost as much energy producing it, as it gives off).  I'm sure companies like Archer Daniels Midland (who's big into ethanol production), would pass on the high costs of producing ethanol to the consumer.  There's also another downside - because it's much easier to produce ethanol from plants high in sugar (hence the reason why Brazil makes it from sugar cane), corn is used in the US to produce it.  As a result of the sudden increased demand for ethanol, the demand for corn has shot corn prices up to some of the highest they've ever been.  In the last year corn prices have tripled or quadrupled).  This is really hurting farmers & ranchers who raise livestock, who are finding it very difficult to to pay for feed.  Also, it's showing up in our food bills, where the prices of anything that uses corn products, have gone up.  BTW. it's hoped that the huge oil reserve they found out in the Gulf of Mexico last year, will help ease foreign oil dependance.

Ellen - AF9J
At work

[W2INR]

Pd $442 for gas/electric last month.... (Feb).... no kids or space cadets at home........ klc

So where are you living Kevin?

[W1QWT]

What am I doing wrong?

Everything is electric. My bills run about $240 a month which to me is crazy.

My house here south of Boston is all electric and consists of 4 bedrooms, kitchen, dinning room, living room, family room, two baths, and a ham shack.
I would kill for an electric bill in the winter of $240. I must be doing something wrong as my February bill was $620. My KW usage went down from the same month last year but the bill goes up. Ah National Grid must charge more than anyone else.
During the summer with the AC's running my bill drops down to the $250 level.
I have to either move or add a gas heater. I do have a wood stove but only use it on weekends.
Once I retire I won't be able to afford it.
Regards
Q

[w3jn]

All electric house here, Allegany Power budget plan is $130/month.

[W1RKW]

Bob, Now you need to find a way to store that hot water. Maybe you could get a car radiator and circulate the water into the house through the radiator. A few muffin fans blowing through the radiator. A friend bought a damaged water heater for the tank to use as storage. It was a gas unit and the burner was trashed.
I hope to put something on the roof at the beach place. I have 100 foot of pvc well pipe under the basement slab as a head storage mass.

Frank,
I thought of using a water heater but I later decided I want something with a much larger capacity.  I want to be able to store 250 or more gallons.  The problem I'm having now is finding a tank that I can get through the door.  I found a company that makes flexible or compressible tanks.   You can get capacities as high as in the tens of  thousands range. The problem is the cost is ridiculous even for their smallest which is 300 gallon tank.

Thought about the car radiator option but was also thinking of hitting an HVAC place and to see if they have any old A coils kicking around.  A car radiator might be better though considering the tubes are all in parallel and the A coil is series tube.

I'm still looking and scrounging around.

[W1RKW]

Have fun with it.  Where I live (the Milwaukee metro area), gas with 10% ethanol in it has been required by law (for air pollution reasions) for years.  Everybody hates it.  The gas mileage is worse by a fair amount than pure gas for fuel.  As a result, we end up burning more fuel, than we did when straight gas was used, spend more on fuel, and end making the same amount of pollution we did before.  Oh yeah, and it costs more too.

73,
Ellen - AF9J

Mike,
I know corn smash doesn't have the same strap as gas. Look at the whole picture. I don't know a single farmer who wants to destroy America, How much of that money we save on gas is wasted dealing with the middle eastern losers. The sooner we cut off their money flow the better off we will be. Let China deal with these idiots cooked by too much sun.
Remember the drag strip classes. Gas, Alcohol, Nitro

Buy American and protect your neighbor's job.

Plus engines with high compression ratios don't perform as they should either.  I can't imagine that ethanol is good for fuel systems over the long haul. 

I remember how gas used to smell when you'd go to the station fill up.  Now it has this awful smell. 

[Ed KB1HVS]

What am I doing wrong?

Everything is electric. My bills run about $240 a month which to me is crazy.

My house here south of Boston is all electric and consists of 4 bedrooms, kitchen, dinning room, living room, family room, two baths, and a ham shack.
I would kill for an electric bill in the winter of $240. I must be doing something wrong as my February bill was $620. My KW usage went down from the same month last year but the bill goes up. Ah National Grid must charge more than anyone else.
During the summer with the AC's running my bill drops down to the $250 level.
I have to either move or add a gas heater. I do have a wood stove but only use it on weekends.
Once I retire I won't be able to afford it.
Regards
Q

  Yep good ol nashunal gridd..........Im a bit of a heat czar. I shut the heat down in the kiddies rooms when they go off to school and I have shown them the reaso for a sweater. I still think $240 a month is insane for electric but after what Ive read here, it may not be that bad.

[Bill, KD0HG]

Gasohol is HIGHLY corrosive to many small engine carburetors, lawn mowers, rototillers, and generators, included. I've had to rebuild several carbs on Briggs engines after the float needle valves corroded so badly that they wouldn't shut off, so the whole tank of fuel would fill the cylinders and hydro-lock the engine after a few days. I don't know for sure what preventative fuel additive would work, maybe Sta-Bil.

Having said that, there's hidden taxes on our imported fuel in terms of paying for additional military resources to protect our supplies. So, yeah, we can and should work through the technical challenges of energy self-sufficiency.. The reason we use gasoline-fueled internal combustion engines is that they've historically been the most economical mass-produced means of transport. If there was any other technology that was less expensive and just as reliable, we'd already be using it. It's crazy to link our country's economic survival to places like the Middle east, Nigeria and Venezuela.

[WA1HZK]

I have a small ranch up in southern NH. When I bought it it had electric heat but I never used it. I'm remembering the "too cheap to meter" speech from "Ike" when I was a kid. Converted the heat & hot water to propane and the lights & rig still eat up $160.00 a month. Electricty in the northeast is a real killer. Screw it, where's my 833's?
Keith
WA1HZK

[WA1GFZ]

corn smash absorbs water like any other alcohol and adds to the process. Water injection works great. I played with it when I lived in LA. My car used to ping when it got hot but worked fine with water injection. stainless would prevent the problem. My next ride will do E85

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

It's crazy to link our country's economic survival to places like the Middle east, Nigeria and Venezuela.

Not to mention Mexico and Canada, our main suppliers.

[Bill, KD0HG]

It's crazy to link our country's economic survival to places like the Middle east, Nigeria and Venezuela.

Not to mention Mexico and Canada, our main suppliers.

That's one encouraging thing, the largest refinery in Denver is getting its feedstock from Alberta tar sands crude now. It's expensive to process, but there's a heckova lot of it up there. There's a century supply of crude just here in Colorado oil shale, but they need to figure out how to safely and sanely extract it. I'd hate to drop down to sea level.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

'd hate to drop down to sea level.

The skiers would be ticked!