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The AM Ghetto




 
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #50 on: March 08, 2007, 11:53:26 AM »

1The line was very long to say hello to Doug, I just listened. All seemed to be well with Doug in the Great Frozen North Lands. Geez he used to report


Hey Mack,
              How could you go back to him anyway when you only have a technician lisence??  Grin
                                       
                                             the Slab Bacon
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« Reply #51 on: March 08, 2007, 12:15:53 PM »

When we finished, I switched over to AM and called CQ.  As I went back to listening mode a couple of slopbucketeers had settled right on top of me, bitching about my AM signal, openly acknowledging the fact that they knew I was there, expounding on how all AM'ers are pathetic misfits, etc.  So I just kept calling CQ on the frequency for about 15 minutes, hoping someone would answer on AM, where I intended to stay put for the duration, but no-one ever came back.  About a half hour later I tuned by and listened on that frequency again, and they were still laughing to each other about "running that AM'er off."  Apparently, the derision of AM had been the topic of their conversation for the entire previous 30 minutes.

I ran into that around 3730 2 weeks back with some 8-Land DXers who apparently randomly appear on the frequency and start talking since they have exclusive ownership now. No one there for 20-30 minutes, then they appeared in the middle of my CQ.

Was up on 3880 last night, what a mess of QRM. It's not like the static crashes weren't bad enough. Brent, Bob 'KBW and a few others were down on '72 with slopbucketeers pissing and moaning right under them. SSB stations started a QSO on 3883 despite the group of AMers on 3880. No AM below 3872. Plenty of SSB. A while ago I started putting 'CQ' in my logbook next to contacts resulting from my CQ. I've never put in the unanswered ones, but probably should start just to get a record of the nights there isn't any AM activity below 3800.

Like the hoardes invading our bands after the CW requirement was lifted, the excitement and enthusiasm expressed by so many AMers about the phone spectrum expansion and where best to set up AM activities seems to be in the same category. Another non-issue.  Roll Eyes
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W9GT
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« Reply #52 on: March 08, 2007, 01:35:36 PM »

OK...at the risk of starting the flames again....I will just say that IMHO, one of the major reasons that the "AM Window" "Ghetto" or what ever you want to call it remains popular and frequently occupied is that it is a known gathering place for AM operation. I fully agree that we need to spread out and enjoy the additional spectrum available to us.....but lets face it.....many will still hang-out in the places where they know they can expect, or count on, activity to be there.  This is one of the major arguments that I tried to express in previous discussions for establishing some new "gathering point"  frequencies in the lower part of the band.  Not to restrict ourselves, but to just create "calling" frequencies where we might expect to come across other AMers.  I was repeatedly shot down by opponents who insisted that this would unnecessarily restrict us to a "new AM window".  I just don't agree....and I think we are seeing the results of not at least picking some starting points to establish as frequencies where we can expect AM activity to be present.....even if we establish contact and move off to other frequencies.  As much as some of us might wish it were different...we are still limited in our numbers and certainly not a majority on the bands.  I will now crawl back into my cave, but at least I have expressed my opinion and my reasoning.


73,  Jack, W9GT   Smiley
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #53 on: March 08, 2007, 02:26:01 PM »

Seems like there is room for both approaches. You might be right, in that we need to "stake out" a spot. It's a shame it has to be that way, but if so, then we should proceed.


OK...at the risk of starting the flames again....I will just say that IMHO, one of the major reasons that the "AM Window" "Ghetto" or what ever you want to call it remains popular and frequently occupied is that it is a known gathering place for AM operation. I fully agree that we need to spread out and enjoy the additional spectrum available to us.....but lets face it.....many will still hang-out in the places where they know they can expect, or count on, activity to be there.  This is one of the major arguments that I tried to express in previous discussions for establishing some new "gathering point"  frequencies in the lower part of the band.  Not to restrict ourselves, but to just create "calling" frequencies where we might expect to come across other AMers.  I was repeatedly shot down by opponents who insisted that this would unnecessarily restrict us to a "new AM window".  I just don't agree....and I think we are seeing the results of not at least picking some starting points to establish as frequencies where we can expect AM activity to be present.....even if we establish contact and move off to other frequencies.  As much as some of us might wish it were different...we are still limited in our numbers and certainly not a majority on the bands.  I will now crawl back into my cave, but at least I have expressed my opinion and my reasoning.


73,  Jack, W9GT   Smiley
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WD8BIL
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« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2007, 02:32:23 PM »

When in the shack or that part of the house the receiver is on 3686Khz.

HUZMAN: got ur PM........ interestingly more and more are coming to the same conclusion. No concensus..... just fact driven conclusion.
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Jim KF2SY
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« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2007, 02:36:18 PM »


Jack,
I tried suggesting the same but was shot down in flames in the "since the expansion" thread some months ago. 

It would be nice to have a set AM meeting place in each portion of the 75-80M band,
instead of the "homeless" wandering around, frankly I think it gets tiresome after a while.
Back to my cave as well.
73
Jim KF2SY

http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=9402.20





 
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2007, 02:40:55 PM »

Let's be clear here. Just because some disagreed with the idea of establishing a set frequency for AM in the expanded band does not mean you or it was/were shot down in flames. Opinions will differ.

Nothing is/was stopping anyone from establishing a new frequency and starting regular operations there. You don't need agreement from me or anyone else to do this. Go for it.

Bill/DUQ has already selected 3733 for his afternoon group. Another "channel" can be started just as easily.
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #57 on: March 08, 2007, 02:59:36 PM »

Mack,
        I just have problems with someone who "talks the talk" but cant "walk the walk" When I looked you up and found that you only had a tech lisence I knew that you were not the AMer you came off to be. As easy as it is to upgrade these days, there is no reason to hang onto a tech lisence. I would think that it would be a lot more fun to test your stuff into an antenna than a dummy load. If my wife can get a general ticket, you should not have any problems. Stop being a "wannabe", get a general ticket and join us.

                                                       The Slab Bacon

                                               
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Todd, KA1KAQ
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« Reply #58 on: March 08, 2007, 03:35:43 PM »

Jack and others -

The initial remarks about not limiting yourself to one or a few frequencies was twofold: to prevent getting into the same garbage/jamming BS we had to put up with on 75 and also not to paint a big target on our backs for the jammers and other troublemakers. But from previous posts on this subject, there are a number of references to spots or areas to look for AMers in:

 *3725 - this has been the Canadian AM hangout for quite a few years, having moved down from 3740. Al, VE3AJM is in there most afternoons with a big signal from Bethany, Ontario. Also Jim VE3BRL, Bob VA3BHD, Tim VE6PG, Bill VE3LVL and a number of others. I try to get on with them when I get home from work, at least for a while before everyone leaves for dinner. They appreciate and welcome the increased AM activity from south of their border. They just don't get on much in the evenings.

 *3733 - Bill 'DUQ and Ralph W3GL have a brief 'What's For Dinner' gathering here until 1800 east coast time, when they vacate to group of SSBers who have a net there. You need to be quicker on the trigger than Ralph, no small feat. Plan on moving to a different frequency at 1800.

 *3650-3750 - Don K4KYV and myself both mentioned this area as a place to find AM activity in the evenings. Yes, you might have to tune more than 10kcs of dial space. I can't go below 3700 (3710, more realistically) until I upgrade but I do hear Don and others like Buddly and Gary K4X? down there from time to time, around 3685 and other spots.

I appreciate what you guys are saying about having a spot, but when all else fails - make one! Call CQ, it seems more folks are willing to listen and will jump in once someone else does the big nasty by calling CQ. If you don't hear a QSO in progress, spin that receiver dial to a clear spot and start one. Works wonders, or it would if folks actually went down there. I find most, but not all contacts between 3710-3735.

Maybe it's more about the majority needing to be lead, or having someone else do it for them. Dunno. I heard W3JN down around 3730 last weekend talking with someone for their first AM QSO, or maybe first in years. I've had that happen a number of times below 3800. Many of the folks down there haven't been exposed to the crap up above and don't have the SSB vs. AM mentality going.

So yes - some 'spots' or calling frequencies have been out there all along. We've just tried to avoid the type of thing that gives ammo to the 'get back in your little box' idiots. But there's nothing homeless about finding a spot and calling CQ. It's as much a tradition as anything else we cling to. If not for someone starting a conversation, the bands would be dead.
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W9GT
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« Reply #59 on: March 08, 2007, 04:11:19 PM »

Jack and others -

I appreciate what you guys are saying about having a spot, but when all else fails - make one! Call CQ, it seems more folks are willing to listen and will jump in once someone else does the big nasty by calling CQ. If you don't hear a QSO in progress, spin that receiver dial to a clear spot and start one. Works wonders, or it would if folks actually went down there. I find most, but not all contacts between 3710-3735.

Maybe it's more about the majority needing to be lead, or having someone else do it for them. Dunno. I heard W3JN down around 3730 last weekend talking with someone for their first AM QSO, or maybe first in years. I've had that happen a number of times below 3800. Many of the folks down there haven't been exposed to the crap up above and don't have the SSB vs. AM mentality going.

So yes - some 'spots' or calling frequencies have been out there all along. We've just tried to avoid the type of thing that gives ammo to the 'get back in your little box' idiots. But there's nothing homeless about finding a spot and calling CQ. It's as much a tradition as anything else we cling to. If not for someone starting a conversation, the bands would be dead.
Thanks for the comments everyone..............................................and....
Good points Todd!  I, as an old buzzard op licensed for 48 yrs, have never (at least for the past 47 yrs) been "shy" about calling CQ!  But....(reality check) here.....as Don stated earlier, I have found that many times repeated CQs resulted in nothing more than nasty retorts and taunting by sickie slop-bucketeers and even a few disgruntled, misplaced CW ops. Lets face it...there is strength in numbers and hanging-out in the same areas of the band...helps clear the weeds for everyone.  Those areas, however, can certainly be larger than the "Ghetto".  Your examples and suggested frik-a-cies have merit and perhaps we just need to spread the word a little more and lead by example.

73,  Jack, W9GT Smiley Wink
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Herb K2VH
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« Reply #60 on: March 08, 2007, 06:12:25 PM »

Went low last nite and called CQ till I was blue in the face.

Finally went to the ghetto and we set it on fire !!

I just got off of 3657 after calling CQ for over a half hour.  No answer.  Is that the solution?  Do what Bud did, and others have done -- go to the "ghetto," and battle the slop bucketeers?
Seems rather silly.  But you could still shoot a canon through 3600-3700.  Hope y'all enjoy the ghetto.  Roll Eyes  This thread is getting repetitive.  Shocked

vH
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K2VHerb
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #61 on: March 08, 2007, 10:07:08 PM »

I called CQ this evening at around 6PM ET on 3716 kHz and got an immediate reply from KA4ICK, Mark in Kingsport, TN. Had a nice QSO for about a half hour with no QRM. Todd, KA1KAQ joined in near the tail end.

It can be done. Ya gotta get off those Novice freqs Herb. Tongue
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WA3VJB
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« Reply #62 on: March 08, 2007, 10:17:50 PM »

Call CQ on a split.

When 3885 is clear, call CQ and announce that you're listening on 3775 or wherever.
When you get an answer, invite the station to make one and that you'll be right down to zero beat.

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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #63 on: March 09, 2007, 08:34:16 AM »

Ah come on Mack, just go upgrade and get on the air. It's a lot more fun than making posts here. Join in on the radio action. I'll even make a road trip to your QTH to put up an antenna. What say?



Mack,
        I just have problems with someone who "talk the talk" but cant "walk the walk" When I looked you up and found that you only had a tech lisence I knew that you were not the AMer you came off to be. As easy as it is to upgrade these days, there is no reason to hang onto a tech lisence. I would think that it would be a lot more fun to test your stuff into an antenna tham a dummy load. If my wife can get a general ticket, you should not have any problems. Stop being a "wannabe", get a general ticket and join us.

                                                       The Slab Bacon

                                               

Whatever, opinions and rectums, everybody has one.

You play with your toys your way, for now I'll play with mine my way.

Nothing to get ones' panties in a wad about, for either of us.

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Herb K2VH
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« Reply #64 on: March 09, 2007, 08:46:32 AM »

It can be done. Ya gotta get off those Novice freqs Herb. Tongue

Son - ' gun!  Here I thought those were Extra Freqs, Steve.  Huh
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K2VHerb
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #65 on: March 09, 2007, 09:35:59 AM »

Novice, Extra... it's all about the same now days.
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Todd, KA1KAQ
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« Reply #66 on: March 09, 2007, 10:50:11 AM »

Enjoyed the chat, Steve - wish I'd gotten home sooner. I did come back later and called CQ. Nick, VE3OWV in Ontario responded, after he signed I called again and worked VE1UF in New Scotland. Had a nice, long QSO with Dave about his days in broadcasting and his site, which is a former broadcast site complete with tower and transmitter building.

Left the air around 21:22 while Dave talked with a couple of other VE stations, one of whom he helped get his ricebox dialed in for AM.

You've got the right idea Herb, but if you don't stir up any activity below 3700, try 3725 +/-. Steve called on 3716 and got a response, I called on 3721 and got several responses, despite slopbucketeers moving in 2kcs away during one QSO. Was hoping to hear W9GT, maybe WD8BIL and others, but no luck.

There's really no reason we can't have good AM representation below 3800 nightly, it just requires breaking old habits and a bit of commitment to follow through. As Steve mentioned previously, it's not a case of one place or the other, but utilizing both. With all the participation and amazement down there initially, I wonder where everyone went.
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« Reply #67 on: March 09, 2007, 11:07:48 AM »

Quote
There's really no reason we can't have good AM representation below 3800 nightly,

Family, huntin', church, huntin', work, huntin'.... to name a few good reasons.
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #68 on: March 09, 2007, 01:09:08 PM »

You forgot fishin'.


Quote
There's really no reason we can't have good AM representation below 3800 nightly,

Family, huntin', church, huntin', work, huntin'.... to name a few good reasons.

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k4kyv
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« Reply #69 on: March 09, 2007, 01:24:54 PM »

Call CQ on a split.

When 3885 is clear, call CQ and announce that you're listening on 3775 or wherever.
When you get an answer, invite the station to make one and that you'll be right down to zero beat.

I don't see that as a practical technique.  We already have too much split operation by DX chasers because of US subband restrictions, particularly on 40m.

The problem many of us would have with the 3885 calling frequency -> QSY approach is that most of our classic tube rigs are not frequency agile.  At the minimum, the rf stages have to be peaked and dipped, along with adjusting any antenna tuning networks.  In some cases, like mine, the antenna tuner is down at the base of the tower, allowing some latitude for QSY, but not as far as from 3885 to 3600-3700.  Others my be xtal control with plug in crystals.

Generally, receivers are a lot more frequency agile than transmitters.  Wouldn't it be easier to simply get into the habit of tuning throughout the frequency range where one is licensed or quickly available with the transmitter/antenna system , ready to respond to any activity heard, and if no AM activity is heard, simply finding a clear spot and calling CQ.  I usually make my CQ's mode-specific:  "CQ 75 (or 80, 40, 160 etc) mtrs AM phone."  or simply something like "CQ 75 mtrs AM". 

Since the band expansion, this has brought MANY ricebox operators out of the woodwork who tried their rigs on AM for the first time.  Some have said that they used to work AM years ago, while others have said that was the first time they ever tried the mode.  I don't think anyone has ever answered my call with a negative comment about my running AM.  I have had a few jammers and anonymous negative comments, but those have been few and far between. 

Occasionally, what sounds like a clear frequency, with no-one transmitting on or near it for 20 minutes or more, is one occupied by a dead-air group that listens 24/7 and rarely transmits but instantly pounces on anyone who dares come near "their" frequency, but I just ignore those, or remind them that amateur freqs are first-come, first-served, and it's like stepping out of the queue at the bank teller line - you go back to the end when you decide it's time to return.

A time or two when I was unable to establish an AM QSO, I have tuned around and eavesdropped on some of the SSB conversations in the new segments, and I have heard a substantial amount of pissing and moaning about the existence of AM activity in the extra class zone.  This would seem to me to be prime territory to run AM, since it is less congested with a lot of clear spots even during prime time hours on weekends.  I even heard one slopbucketeer make the bogus claim to his buddies that calling a long CQ on AM is "broadcasting" and therefore illegal.  Grin Grin
The point is, there will be less hassle with the SSB community if there is enough AM presence throughout the band that it will appear completely normal to hear AM activity anywhere in the phone bands.

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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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WD8BIL
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« Reply #70 on: March 09, 2007, 01:35:28 PM »

Quote
You forgot fishin'.

Oh ya.... huntin', fishin', huntin'.......ect



* Bass on Ice.jpg (543.42 KB, 1801x1817 - viewed 726 times.)
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Todd, KA1KAQ
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« Reply #71 on: March 09, 2007, 02:35:13 PM »

Quote
You forgot fishin'.

Oh ya.... huntin', fishin', huntin'.......ect

Oh, sure. You'd like us to think you're a skilled fisherman, but we know it was the camouflage. He never saw you coming...
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #72 on: March 09, 2007, 02:40:21 PM »

A well placed couple of sticks of dynamite and a brick can make ANYONE a skilled fisherman!! Grin Grin
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The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #73 on: March 09, 2007, 02:43:41 PM »

I hope to hear some of y'all in the ghetto or SOMEWHERE on the band tonight. After all itz friday, and friday nite is radio night!! Dont talk about it, just do it!! Letz play some radio tonight, I need a fix!!

                                    The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #74 on: March 09, 2007, 02:54:40 PM »

I'll be down below 3800 if I can get some help. If the ghetto quiets down at a reasonable hour, I'll jump in with both feet. What's the official bedtime hour for the SSB knuckledraggers and dimwits who dwell around that area? I already know that we're not smart enough to go to bed at a reasonable hour, at least not as long as there's coffee to drink...
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