The AM Forum

THE AM BULLETIN BOARD => QSO => Topic started by: k4kyv on March 03, 2007, 01:28:19 AM



Title: The AM Ghetto
Post by: k4kyv on March 03, 2007, 01:28:19 AM
I was told by someone over the air that using the term "AM Ghetto" to describe 3870-3890 kc/s might be taken as inappropriate and offensive.

I looked up the word in a dictionary, and here is the definition:

Originally an Italian word describing the area in Venice where Jews were forced to live.

1. Jewish quarter of a city; (by extension) place where a minority finds itself aggregated and isolated from the  rest of the population.

2. Social group isolated amongst themselves.

Doesn't that describe the congested "AM Window" frequencies to a tee?

The person who finds the term offensive obviously does not know the meaning of the word.  The first time I ever heard it was back in the 50's when I was in High School, used to describe the Jewish quarter in cities under German occupation during WW2.  It was not until the 60's that I ever heard it used to describe neighbourhoods in major US cities.

Evidently, the term risks not being politically correct to-day.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: W2XR on March 03, 2007, 02:34:03 AM
Hi Don,

I see no reason whatsoever why the term "ghetto" should be considered politically incorrect to use in any context or forum. Please continue to use it vis-a-vis "the AM ghetto".

As you correctly pointed out, the term originally (back in the Middle Ages) described a city location where people of the Jewish faith were forced to live due to their religious afiliation. Much later, of course, the term was adopted to describe an inner-city location where people lived, but by their own choice. It does not directly connote any specific racial or ethnic origin in terms of who lives there, but it is obvious that the inner-city ghetto of the 21st century is frequently inhabited by minority groups, etc. Further, the term should not in any way imply anything directly or indirectly derogatory, demeaning, or offensive to the inhabitants of the ghetto.

I simply fail to see how anyone can construe this term as being offensive for any reason. I can see how it can be considered as an unpleasant place to live, but to my rationale, that is the extent of it.

If the term "ghetto" is now considered politically incorrect, we have a real problem in this country.

73,

Bruce


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Art on March 03, 2007, 06:56:19 AM
The following link provides an interesting view of "PC" and its history. One which I believe to be quite accurate. 'course, it isn't PC, LOL

http://www.academia.org/lectures/lind1.html





Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: W3SLK on March 03, 2007, 08:49:13 AM
(http://www.elvis.com/images/wallpaper/thumbs/elvis_yellow.gif)

".....On a cold and gray Chicago morn' another little baby child is born in the Ghet-toe, ([soto voce]in the ghetto), and his moma cries...."


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: k4kyv on March 03, 2007, 01:19:30 PM
Please don't get me wrong -- I am not suggesting that AM operators altogether abandon the frequencies between 3870 and 3890.  It is essential that we maintain AM operation in the General class segment, especially now that newcomers are expected to show up from the ranks of the no-coders.  It would be a very dangerous thing for AM operation to move exclusively out of bounds to the expected influx of new General class operators who will appear on the bands whether we like it or not.  But I think more, regular, AM presence should be established in the expanded bands before SSB "groups" begin to claim "ownership" of all the available frequencies in the new phone portions.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Herb K2VH on March 03, 2007, 01:43:36 PM
Don,

You quoted: "(by extension) place where a minority finds itself aggregated and isolated from the  rest of the population."

That's what I have called the "back of the bus" for AMers.  The emphasis here is on the phrase, "where a minority finds itself."  In other words, the minority does not go there voluntarily.  The only thing politically incorrect about either of these phenomena is that they exist at all.  If AMers wish to place themselves somewhere in these frequency ranges (3870-90), that's one thing.  But when we find ourselves told by slop bucketeers to "go back where you belong," (as I have been told on several occasions) that area of the band becomes a ghetto, or the back of the bus.  It's only a ghetto when we're forced to be there.  Otherwise, it's a community.  Congress ended legal forced segregation in this country in 1964, so that the act of being aggregated and isolated from the rest of the population by the majority is not only politically incorrect, it is illegal.   >:(

K2VHerb


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WA3VJB on March 03, 2007, 04:24:12 PM
For at least five years and maybe longer I was convinced it was time to abandon the "AM Window" on 75 meters as a broken disservice to those who try to inhabit it.

For most of the time, outsiders don't respect it, and those inside are crowded and discontented.

For some of the time it continues to be one of the many vacant spots on the dial to have an AM QSO.

Past that, it no longer is a habit.

I now fully subscribe to the ARRL's suggestion that it is only a calling frequency, where you can move elsewhere after hooking up., Or bypass the first step entirely and just tun around.



Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Pete, WA2CWA on March 03, 2007, 04:37:56 PM
Call it the AM Central Hub.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 03, 2007, 10:33:03 PM
If you are running a broadcast rig in the amateur bands, you've already moved beyond stock. I don't see how using a VFO is any more "non-stock." When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

It's probably worthwhile to keep an AM presence in the General segment. But many of us purposely upgraded to Advanced or extra just so we could get on 3885 back when it was in the Advanced portion of the band. Bet the ARRL did have that in mind when they came up with incentive licensing! ;D


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WA3VJB on March 04, 2007, 08:53:33 AM
Bet the ARRL did have that in mind when they came up with incentive licensing!

Did not !   Did not !!!


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WA3VJB on March 04, 2007, 08:56:51 AM
and this group just moved down 5kc. That's life in the ghetto!   

Really?  A   whole   5 Kc ?  Wow, that's really decent of them.

Everyone must have a 75A4 or something else awful and narrow.

This should be required reading for anyone who intends to use a VFO.

I firmly believe that in the majority of the on air cases where the signal strength of stations are within a 10 dB range, a 5 kHz frequency spacing between two stations or QSOs is not enough. A more acceptable minimum spacing appears to be around 7 kHz.

Howcome? Read on.

http://www.amwindow.org/tech/htm/ambw.html (http://www.amwindow.org/tech/htm/ambw.html)





Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: k4kyv on March 04, 2007, 10:28:43 AM
But many of us purposely upgraded to Advanced or extra just so we could get on 3885 back when it was in the Advanced portion of the band. Bet the ARRL did have that in mind when they came up with incentive licensing!

Incentive licensing pre-dates the 3885 kc/s "AM Window."  Back then, AM was commonly heard throughout 3800-3900, but by that time the majority of the activity was SSB. 

I spent some time in California in the latter part of 1965.  Despite the fact that there was still ample AM operation in eastern USA, on the west coast AM had practically disappeared.  The couple of times I had the opportunity to listen on 75m, you would have been lucky to hear one AM signal.

I was living outside the country in 1968, but came back to TN for a visit.  The first step of Incentive Licensing had just gone into effect.  There was still enough activity left on AM that it was easy to make an AM QSO about any time, day or night, although by then AM was definitely a small minority.

In 1970, I returned to the States and got back on the air.  In that slightly over one year period following Incentive Licensing, AM had all but disappeared.  If anything, Incentive Licensing appeared to be the death knell for AM as well as homebrewing.

I spent some more time overseas, and had pretty much figured that AM was dead once and for all.

Then in 1973 or 74 I moved to the Boston area.  A few months later I picked up an old HRO and started to monitor shortwave.  I was surprised to hear some 75m AM activity, all from the northeast USA, and almost all on 3885. 

That's what got me interested in ham radio once again.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Herb K2VH on March 04, 2007, 10:42:19 AM
This morning at about 7:30 I joined in with the DX-60 pre-net on 3.880.  There was another qso of east coasters on 3.885.  I had no trouble reading the DX-60 boys, but according to the "5KHz isn't enough" philosophy, I shouldn't have joined with the 3.880 group.  Perhaps if we did run our receivers in a narrower position, and didn't always have to hear Hi-Fi (= East Coast) audio, we wouldn't have these kinds of problems.  My receiver was in the 4KHz selectivity position.  No problem.  And not "awful and narrow."  Just good selectivity, with no QRM.

vH


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 04, 2007, 12:48:36 PM
AM ghetto, Hmmmm..................   Sometime a good while ago, I was duely appointed : "mayor of the AM ghetto" By a long standing member of our illustrius AM community, Bob W2ZM !! I was working at the bench around 2:00am when He put out a cq on 3885. Since I had had a transmitter idling on standby for hours, I reached over and hit the ptt and said howdy.. there had been no activity for hours.

Bob promptly said : "Frank, you have got to be the mayor of the AM ghetto, Any time I put out a cq, you are always there!!"  We both laughed and had a nice relaxed 1 on 1 qso that lasted a good hour or so.

The AM ghetto isnt always that bad of a place to be, you should try it sometime!! We had a very nice qso there last night from around 7:30pm untill I ran out of gas somewhere around 1:45. We had a huge group that was so big at one time, I couldnt remember all of the callsigns. the guests that stopped by as the night progressed  were: W2DTC,WA2UJX, N1FT,
WA1UQM, K1KBW, WB6QEX, N3IBX, KA2DZT, W1GHW, W1IA, KD2XA, WB3HUZ, KE4LRL, K7YOO, KE5ERI, K2DK, KK4AM, N4QNX, KB0INT, KB3OMT, MYSELF, and prolly a few more that I am not remembering. It was KB3OMT/AG's first night on AM as a control op. We all had a great time!! Maybe you should try it sometime, you just might like it!!

It is nice to have the luxury of running wide bandwidth recieve when condx permit, but lets face it, it is not always possible no matter where in the band you are. I was running 4kc on the '390a last night and it was still a great time! Reduced receive bandwidth definately does NOT stop my enjoyment if I am hearing everyone loud and clear. 5kc spacing is definately a little tight, but still doable and enjoyable. I would definately prefer 7-10 kc, but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do!! Get a good reveiver and have fun!! A few "tall ships" in the group definately help keep the slopbucket qwerm away.

                                                                                         The Slab Bacon


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: W2XR on March 04, 2007, 01:17:44 PM
I heard you guys on 3885 last night, but I spent nearly 3 hours working Don/ K4KYV, and Gary, K4XT/8 on 3675 Khz. Good QSO, until I ran out of steam at around 3 AM EST. The AM ghetto is great, with lots of activity and fun, but as has been stated before in these posts, the clear channel frequencies below 3700 Khz are really nice for those one-on-one QSOs. I was able to keep the SP-600 at 8 Khz bandwidth most of the time during this QSO, occasionally opening her up all the way, with minimal QRM to boot!

I'm really surprised there isn't more AM activity down there, Extra Class license permitting. Is it an antenna issue, or perhaps some of the Class E rigs are not sufficiently frequency agile to permit their operation below the "ghetto"? Just curious.

73,

Bruce


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 04, 2007, 01:47:58 PM
Quote
GET REAL! When you have a roundtable running inside a 150 mile circle and another QSO starts to float in from hundreds of miles away, when the band stretchs out a little, 5kc is plenty far enough to move. IT'S NOT ENOUGH ON STRONG AM SIGNALS! picky, picky, picky

Since the closest station I converse with regularly on AM is about 150 miles away, I have very few roundtables within a 150 mile circle. And you are taking things out of context. I never said 5 kHz is ABSOLUTELY NEVER an acceptable spacing. Read the article. The bigger point is why would you only move down 5 kHz if there were open freqs 10-20-50-100 kHz away? I fully understand 5 kHz is sometimes all that can be accomodated. But when I hear two AM QSOs only 5 kHz apart at 3PM (or 1 AM) when the band is largely unoccupied, and people in both QSOs are complaining of splatter, I cringe. I'm sure Al Gore would approve.  ;D

Just because you and I don't agree on this point, no need to go get nasty and call names and make Al Gore comments. Sheesh. Your opinion gets posted just like mine. What's the problem? Let's debate this on the technical merits. I've put forth some on my article. Come back with some legitimate engineering numbers of your own. Then we can have a real discussion. Name calling doesn't get it bro.

The last paragraph of the article makes my intent very clear.

Quote
I hope the data and analysis presented here will serve as a starting point in the discussion on minimum frequency spacing for AM amateur radio stations. I also hope it drives the discussion towards the use of theoretical and empirically derived data. Your thoughts and comments are welcome.
  (Emphasis added)


Please point out where I said "I'm smarter than you and you should listen to me."

........


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: N8LGU on March 04, 2007, 03:30:04 PM
Now, now fellas...We're all brothers here-
Say! why not come down to the clear channel area (3600-3800 kc) and you can quit arguing about 5 kc spacing?


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WA3VJB on March 04, 2007, 03:56:45 PM
See you in the 3700s somewhere.



Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: kc2ifr on March 04, 2007, 06:04:03 PM
Quote
Everyone must have a 75A4 or something else awful and narrow.

I Will take exception to that Paul. I have a 75A4 and love it. It IS without a doubt my best battle receiver. Seems like ppl ,are pissing and moaning about the 5kc spacing and I must admit I have complained about that also.......BUT if 5kc is the spacing, my A4 works great. Narrow it down and use the bandpass tuning and I can still copy fine. All this crap about having to have HI FI audio all the time is just that...crap. I enjoy good audio as much as the next guy....but if I have to narrow down my receiver I will. And the qso goes on......hi fi or not.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WA3VJB on March 04, 2007, 06:19:03 PM
To each his own Bill, by all means.

But I don't consider it "hi-fi" to expect to hear out 4Kc from center.

And if I have to pinch it down to 2Kc from center, it's time to sign out and I do.



Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: k4kyv on March 04, 2007, 07:54:12 PM
I can work @ 5 kc/s separation using the stock 6 kc/s mechanical filter, but I hear the monkey chatter from the adjacent channel.  It usually doesn't make the station difficult to understand, but just a little annoying.  With the 8 kc/s filter, the interference would definitely be intolerable.  Sometimes when working AM on 3870-90 I have to use the 4 kc/s filter.  Now that is better than the SSB filter, but still "battle condx" audio.  Even when using the 6.0 filter to work AM @ 5.0 separation, I often find myself tuning slightly to one side to dodge the QRM.

When condx permit, I prefer to move at least 7 kc/s from the nearest AM station.

Interestingly, the DX quarmtesters seemed to stick with the traditional DX window, so most of the quarmtest congestion was between 3750 and 3820, including the stations above 3800 working split.

Very little quarmtest activity in 3600-3700, even though that should have been prime DX territory.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WBear2GCR on March 04, 2007, 10:49:18 PM

Per an earlier thread on the same topic that I started right after the new band rules went into effect: call on 3385 (or vicinity) make contact, and suggest quickly to QSY to an open freq or freqs that you've checked out or go to check out... move off - as far as possible.

Just a suggestion.

It's up to you to suggest it when you join a QSO in the "window".
Don't wait for everyone else... or if someone does, chime in.

The more people that suggest it, the more it will become SOP.

Right now, as far as I can hear, nothing has changed. It's exactly the same as it was before the band was widened.

I suspect that the thinking tends to be along these lines - 'there aren't that many stations on, so why move?'

Or maybe, 'if I QSY, no one will join me/us and we'll be left sitting alone while everyone else is back on 3885...'?

It would be a good idea to move off at least some of the time!! At least that's how it seems to me. If some of the tall ships - and you know who you are - were to take the initiative, others would follow down the band.

I like the idea of 3805 if it is open... less likely to get hit with buckshot from below...  ;)

           _-_-WBear2GCR


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: kc2ifr on March 05, 2007, 05:40:04 AM
Speaking of the FAA....Just another quick note........
My 2 meter mobile rig......a Yeasu  FT 3000M, covers the AM air frequencys for receive only.
Some of the AM aircraft transmitters I hear sound very good. Others sound awful but my point is that I find some of them even with there limited freq. response sound very good. I guess there is something to say for good communications quality audio.....very punchy but yet nice to listen to.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WD8BIL on March 05, 2007, 07:34:15 AM
Quote
It ain't as pleasant to listen to as hifi but helps a bunch in the "AM Ghetto" situation.


Moving helps too.
BUT NOTHING BEATS STRAP !!!!
In the ghetto last nite the strapping hi-fi ruled.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Bill, KD0HG on March 05, 2007, 09:30:57 AM
The FAA was considering converting to NBFM from the fairly tight 5-6kc AM VHF/UHF gear they were using. Rooms with noise introduced were used to test the subjects ability to copy transmitted voice and copy it correctly, AM won by a large margin.


Mack, let me add something else to your excellent post.

The real problem with FM was its capture effect on the receiver. If you listen to aircraft comms, especially around uncontrolled airports, you often hear one or more aircraft making transmissions at the same time. Because they're on AM, you can at least "sorta-understand" everyone at the same time through the heterodynes. If they were on FM, because of its capture effect, the strongest signal wins, period.You don't hear the weaker sigs audio at all. That creates a potentially dangerous situation.
Same for future digital communications. I think aircraft communications are going to be AM forever.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Todd, KA1KAQ on March 05, 2007, 11:20:51 AM
I was told by someone over the air that using the term "AM Ghetto" to describe 3870-3890 kc/s might be taken as inappropriate and offensive.

Wowsers....if 'Ghetto' bothers them, I wonder what they'd think of me using the term 'cesspool'?  ;)

We've discussed this on the air several times Don, in decent, enjoyable conditions below 3800. The mentality for staying in a box, particularly a dirty box, makes no sense. Most nights up there it was a battle just to carry on a QSO for any length of time unless you had a number of heavyweights in there. Between the QRM, deliberate jamming, and other nonsense, it gets old fast.

Even more puzzling is why so few are making regular use of the new phone spectrum below 3800. It doesn't mean never using any other frequency. Once upon a time we had (or exercised) little choice in the matter, now many seem to prefer the cluster fly approach to 3885?

There was a great group on 3728 Saturday afternoon and evening, until the proficiently rude corntesters arrived back on the scene to do their thing with no consideration for any others. Got to hear 'JN on his new GPT-750 and it sounded HiHi FB. We did get some crap from a bunch of netwits about 5 kcs away who decided to start their net on "their" frequency despite QSOs already in progress on that frequency and around it, some for hours. Then of course, they bitched about everyone else - including the corntesters.

I Will take exception to that Paul. I have a 75A4 and love it. It IS without a doubt my best battle receiver.

I agree, Bill. I think somewhere along the lines people started equating high price with high end audio or something, not sure. Most folks who use a 75A-4 use it because it's a good package and offers many features that are helpful in less-than-perfect conditions. The fact that it doesn't have hi-fi audio is no big deal. Neither does the R-390A unless you pick it off the diode load and run it to an amp. The same thing could be done with the A-4. Both are sensitive, stable, and have those lovely mechanical filters that ring like hell on stronger signals. I know Paul switches in his narrower filters when conditions get noisy. And I agree - when it gets that bad, it's easier to just throw the switch and come back another day.

It's tough to beat an old Super Pro or SX-28 for stock audio. Trouble is, you can only listen to hi fi audio if and when conditions permit. This seldom seems to be the case in the ghetto/cesspool.



Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: N3DRB The Derb on March 05, 2007, 01:06:02 PM
the best audio out of a stock radio I've ever heard was my Hallicrafters sx-16 with the Big 12" 'h' speaker in the broad position. about 12KC wide, PP 6V6s's. My Super Pros ( I've had a 100 a few 200's and 2 400's) came close. MY SX28A was also very good.

Of course, if you really wanna be cool, you get a console BCL radio like a PP shutter dial Zenith that tunes 160 and 75 and use that. 15" electrodynoramic speker nd all that you know. ;D


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 05, 2007, 07:36:53 PM
Quote
I vividly recall hearing roundtables getting way too big down here and being split, half moving to 3880 from 3885. It works fine during not so strong signal situations. Moving further down than 3880 in the SE will stir the slopbucketeers into a frenzy, moving higher than 3885 will draw the same reaction down in the SE.

Those were the old days Mack. We now have tons of room in the 3600 and 3700 ranges. No need for the 5 kc foolishness when dozens of clear freqs exist in the expanded phone portion.

Quote
I did go ahead and look at "your" tech paper. It's right & wrong at the same time when applied to AM ham radio. Way too many variables on the xmitting & rcving end of an AM ham QSO for there to be a 'set formula' that always works.

No set formula was used. Please detail the claimed right and wrong areas, most especially the wrong areas. Specify these many variables. As I said, let's seriously discuss this rather than using the current anecdotal approach (e.g. hundreds of hams live within150 miles of my QTH, therefore nothing can QRM them or I used 5 kHz once and it worked fine).  I know you can do better than this. Focus indeed!

Speaking of lack of focus, thanks for the corrections on my QRZ bio. I wouldn't want anyone to notice that it's a spoof. ;)


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WD8BIL on March 06, 2007, 08:34:23 AM
Went low last nite and called CQ till I was blue in the face.

Finally went to the ghetto and we set it on fire !! Man the signals were great. Hi Fi abounds.

Good time guys !!
N3IBX (where men are men and women are welders), Johnnie Novice, Huzter, Dave DK, Dana, TRON and WN3...... well... u know the rest.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 06, 2007, 08:42:44 AM
Went low last nite and called CQ till I was blue in the face.

Finally went to the ghetto and we set it on fire !! Man the signals were great. Hi Fi abounds.

Good time guys !!
N3IBX (where men are men and women are welders), Johnnie Novice, Huzter, Dave DK, Dana, TRON and WN3...... well... u know the rest.

What was I, a potted plant??................................


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WD8BIL on March 06, 2007, 08:50:39 AM
That's potted EGGplant, Slab.

Like we said last nite..... the memory is the second thing to go.
I still can't remember the first thing...... darn it !


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 06, 2007, 08:54:17 AM
That's potted EGGplant, Slab.

Like we said last nite..... the memory is the second thing to go.
I still can't remember the first thing...... darn it !


The hair!!..................................


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 06, 2007, 09:09:22 AM
Frank, you're the mayor of the ghetto. No need to list you since you are always there. Not.

Actually, I was pleasantly surprised to hear you on that early in the evening, and on a weekday! Same for JN. The freq was very clear (had the rx opened up to 14 kHz) and signals were big. Wish I had shown up early and could have stayed around longer. See, there's this thing call work (yes, a nasty four letter word) that keeps getting in the way.

Hope to catch you guys again.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 06, 2007, 10:08:00 AM
Frank, you're the mayor of the ghetto. No need to list you since you are always there. Not.

Actually, I was pleasantly surprised to hear you on that early in the evening, and on a weekday! Same for JN. The freq was very clear (had the rx opened up to 14 kHz) and signals were big. Wish I had shown up early and could have stayed around longer. See, there's this thing call work (yes, a nasty four letter word) that keeps getting in the way.

Hope to catch you guys again.


With the condx as good as it wuz, I hated to bail out when I did, but
0 dark 30 comes too friggin early for me!! I wouldnt have been on at all last night, but the YL wanted to play some radio! Go figger!!


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 06, 2007, 10:22:49 AM
Dude. you have it made!

Quote
I wouldnt have been on at all last night, but the YL wanted to play some radio! Go figger!!


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WD8BIL on March 06, 2007, 10:24:24 AM
XYL Huh.....
Living up to her call already Frank?????/ OL' Mother Trouble !!!!


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 06, 2007, 11:23:35 AM
Well...................... you know how new hams are.......................


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: k3zrf on March 06, 2007, 07:49:53 PM
Good for Carol, ain't ya proud!?


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: k4kyv on March 07, 2007, 12:42:52 AM
I hated to bail out when I did, but
0 dark 30 comes too friggin early for me!!

You're going to love it when that goddam daylight shifting time starts up!


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 07, 2007, 10:05:45 AM
[You're going to love it when that goddam daylight shifting time starts up!

for a week or two I will walk around with my ass on backwards until my biological clock readjusts. It sux!! I wish they would make up their mind and stay there!!


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Herb K2VH on March 07, 2007, 10:12:28 AM
By next year the only Standard Time will run from Thanksgiving till New Years, so that we can celebrate the holidays in the dark.  All the rest of the time we can get up in the dark, send the kids to school in the dark, and run our lights in the AM instead of the PM.  Sure makes sense, eh? ???

vH


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 07, 2007, 12:33:26 PM
Just means we'll have daytime conditions in the AM Ghetto longer in the afternoons. Everyone knows it's safer in the ghetto during the day time. This is a good thing.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Todd, KA1KAQ on March 07, 2007, 12:50:03 PM
Went low last nite and called CQ till I was blue in the face.

Precisely what I've spoken about. I was on Monday early evening and talked with the guys north of the border, including Tim, VE6PG running mobile. Came back later and called down there for 15-20 minutes, only heard one weak response to my CQs. I figured the band went long because I couldn't hear much of anything even in the cesspool. This was after 10PM, though.

So yep - I bet if everyone hangs around up there, the new spectrum will get gobbled up by SSB. It's already well on its way, at least the after dinner hours.

Sorry I missed ya, Buddly. Most nights I'm down below 3800 either calling CQ or listening to the rcvr if I'm busy elsewhere. Don seems to be around down there fairly regularly too.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: k4kyv on March 07, 2007, 05:44:36 PM
It's already happening.  The other night I listened across the extra class portion, and heard no AM.  As I was about to call CQ, I heard a CW station on about 3686 call CQ.  So I switched to CW and called him, and we had about a 20 minute CW contact at 100% copy, with no interference or sign of anyone else near the frequency for the entire time of the QSO.  When we finished, I switched over to AM and called CQ.  As I went back to listening mode a couple of slopbucketeers had settled right on top of me, bitching about my AM signal, openly acknowledging the fact that they knew I was there, expounding on how all AM'ers are pathetic misfits, etc.  So I just kept calling CQ on the frequency for about 15 minutes, hoping someone would answer on AM, where I intended to stay put for the duration, but no-one ever came back.  About a half hour later I tuned by and listened on that frequency again, and they were still laughing to each other about "running that AM'er off."  Apparently, the derision of AM had been the topic of their conversation for the entire previous 30 minutes.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Herb K2VH on March 07, 2007, 06:16:17 PM
Went low last nite and called CQ till I was blue in the face.

 I was on Monday early evening and talked with the guys north of the border, including Tim, VE6PG running mobile.
So yep - I bet if everyone hangs around up there, the new spectrum will get gobbled up by SSB. It's already well on its way, at least the after dinner hours. 

Yes, Todd.  I too talked with VE6PG/m on either Friday or Saturday on 3657.  But shortly before we signed out some slop bucketeer (NN1N to be exact) came on calling CQ CONTEST.  I told him what I thought of him, but that didn't phase him.

Don (K4KYV) -- I was on 3657 about a half hour ago calling CQ on AM, and did get an answer finally from N4WN, whom I've worked a number of other times.  No slop bucket this evening.  He's always a pleasure to talk with.  Great old timer.  Maybe I'll run into one or more of the rest of you one of these days before supper.  That's when I like to get on.  But maybe, one of these nights, I'll stay up and yak after supper.

73, de K2VHerb


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 07, 2007, 08:34:14 PM
Did you talk to Doug? How's he doing?

The AM Ghetto got some of it's former glory back last night. VE4BX/Doug Beamish of Hamiota, Manitoba, Canada was on for quiet a while, he got lots of calls. It's been a long time since I've heard Doug on and the old 4-1000 HB rig is still perking out a big signal into TN.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: W2VW on March 07, 2007, 09:32:43 PM
Just means we'll have daytime conditions in the AM Ghetto longer in the afternoons. Everyone knows it's safer in the ghetto during the day time. This is a good thing.

Gotta watch that MLK BLVD at night.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WA3VJB on March 08, 2007, 05:05:23 AM

Gotta watch that MLK BLVD at night.

GPS = DR MLK JR BLVD


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: N2udf on March 08, 2007, 06:19:34 AM
I can see it now in "Electric Radio".The 813 BG rig  with downward drifting VFO....Lee,N2UDF


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 08, 2007, 10:53:32 AM
Ah. Too bad. I bet you wanted to say hi to Doug after all those years between QSOs. Maybe next time.


Did you talk to Doug? How's he doing?

The AM Ghetto got some of it's former glory back last night. VE4BX/Doug Beamish of Hamiota, Manitoba, Canada was on for quiet a while, he got lots of calls. It's been a long time since I've heard Doug on and the old 4-1000 HB rig is still perking out a big signal into TN.

The line was very long to say hello to Doug, I just listened. All seemed to be well with Doug in the Great Frozen North Lands. Geez he used to report -?? temps and snowfall levels in winter that us southern boys can't comprehend! I recall one winter Doug stating that it had been 2 weeks since he could open a door at his place!


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 08, 2007, 11:53:26 AM
1The line was very long to say hello to Doug, I just listened. All seemed to be well with Doug in the Great Frozen North Lands. Geez he used to report


Hey Mack,
              How could you go back to him anyway when you only have a technician lisence??  ;D
                                       
                                             the Slab Bacon


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Todd, KA1KAQ on March 08, 2007, 12:15:53 PM
When we finished, I switched over to AM and called CQ.  As I went back to listening mode a couple of slopbucketeers had settled right on top of me, bitching about my AM signal, openly acknowledging the fact that they knew I was there, expounding on how all AM'ers are pathetic misfits, etc.  So I just kept calling CQ on the frequency for about 15 minutes, hoping someone would answer on AM, where I intended to stay put for the duration, but no-one ever came back.  About a half hour later I tuned by and listened on that frequency again, and they were still laughing to each other about "running that AM'er off."  Apparently, the derision of AM had been the topic of their conversation for the entire previous 30 minutes.

I ran into that around 3730 2 weeks back with some 8-Land DXers who apparently randomly appear on the frequency and start talking since they have exclusive ownership now. No one there for 20-30 minutes, then they appeared in the middle of my CQ.

Was up on 3880 last night, what a mess of QRM. It's not like the static crashes weren't bad enough. Brent, Bob 'KBW and a few others were down on '72 with slopbucketeers pissing and moaning right under them. SSB stations started a QSO on 3883 despite the group of AMers on 3880. No AM below 3872. Plenty of SSB. A while ago I started putting 'CQ' in my logbook next to contacts resulting from my CQ. I've never put in the unanswered ones, but probably should start just to get a record of the nights there isn't any AM activity below 3800.

Like the hoardes invading our bands after the CW requirement was lifted, the excitement and enthusiasm expressed by so many AMers about the phone spectrum expansion and where best to set up AM activities seems to be in the same category. Another non-issue.  ::)


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: W9GT on March 08, 2007, 01:35:36 PM
OK...at the risk of starting the flames again....I will just say that IMHO, one of the major reasons that the "AM Window" "Ghetto" or what ever you want to call it remains popular and frequently occupied is that it is a known gathering place for AM operation. I fully agree that we need to spread out and enjoy the additional spectrum available to us.....but lets face it.....many will still hang-out in the places where they know they can expect, or count on, activity to be there.  This is one of the major arguments that I tried to express in previous discussions for establishing some new "gathering point"  frequencies in the lower part of the band.  Not to restrict ourselves, but to just create "calling" frequencies where we might expect to come across other AMers.  I was repeatedly shot down by opponents who insisted that this would unnecessarily restrict us to a "new AM window".  I just don't agree....and I think we are seeing the results of not at least picking some starting points to establish as frequencies where we can expect AM activity to be present.....even if we establish contact and move off to other frequencies.  As much as some of us might wish it were different...we are still limited in our numbers and certainly not a majority on the bands.  I will now crawl back into my cave, but at least I have expressed my opinion and my reasoning.


73,  Jack, W9GT   :)


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 08, 2007, 02:26:01 PM
Seems like there is room for both approaches. You might be right, in that we need to "stake out" a spot. It's a shame it has to be that way, but if so, then we should proceed.


OK...at the risk of starting the flames again....I will just say that IMHO, one of the major reasons that the "AM Window" "Ghetto" or what ever you want to call it remains popular and frequently occupied is that it is a known gathering place for AM operation. I fully agree that we need to spread out and enjoy the additional spectrum available to us.....but lets face it.....many will still hang-out in the places where they know they can expect, or count on, activity to be there.  This is one of the major arguments that I tried to express in previous discussions for establishing some new "gathering point"  frequencies in the lower part of the band.  Not to restrict ourselves, but to just create "calling" frequencies where we might expect to come across other AMers.  I was repeatedly shot down by opponents who insisted that this would unnecessarily restrict us to a "new AM window".  I just don't agree....and I think we are seeing the results of not at least picking some starting points to establish as frequencies where we can expect AM activity to be present.....even if we establish contact and move off to other frequencies.  As much as some of us might wish it were different...we are still limited in our numbers and certainly not a majority on the bands.  I will now crawl back into my cave, but at least I have expressed my opinion and my reasoning.


73,  Jack, W9GT   :)


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WD8BIL on March 08, 2007, 02:32:23 PM
When in the shack or that part of the house the receiver is on 3686Khz.

HUZMAN: got ur PM........ interestingly more and more are coming to the same conclusion. No concensus..... just fact driven conclusion.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Jim KF2SY on March 08, 2007, 02:36:18 PM

Jack,
I tried suggesting the same but was shot down in flames in the "since the expansion" thread some months ago. 

It would be nice to have a set AM meeting place in each portion of the 75-80M band,
instead of the "homeless" wandering around, frankly I think it gets tiresome after a while.
Back to my cave as well.
73
Jim KF2SY

http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=9402.20





 


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 08, 2007, 02:40:55 PM
Let's be clear here. Just because some disagreed with the idea of establishing a set frequency for AM in the expanded band does not mean you or it was/were shot down in flames. Opinions will differ.

Nothing is/was stopping anyone from establishing a new frequency and starting regular operations there. You don't need agreement from me or anyone else to do this. Go for it.

Bill/DUQ has already selected 3733 for his afternoon group. Another "channel" can be started just as easily.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 08, 2007, 02:59:36 PM
Mack,
        I just have problems with someone who "talks the talk" but cant "walk the walk" When I looked you up and found that you only had a tech lisence I knew that you were not the AMer you came off to be. As easy as it is to upgrade these days, there is no reason to hang onto a tech lisence. I would think that it would be a lot more fun to test your stuff into an antenna than a dummy load. If my wife can get a general ticket, you should not have any problems. Stop being a "wannabe", get a general ticket and join us.

                                                       The Slab Bacon

                                               


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Todd, KA1KAQ on March 08, 2007, 03:35:43 PM
Jack and others -

The initial remarks about not limiting yourself to one or a few frequencies was twofold: to prevent getting into the same garbage/jamming BS we had to put up with on 75 and also not to paint a big target on our backs for the jammers and other troublemakers. But from previous posts on this subject, there are a number of references to spots or areas to look for AMers in:

 *3725 - this has been the Canadian AM hangout for quite a few years, having moved down from 3740. Al, VE3AJM is in there most afternoons with a big signal from Bethany, Ontario. Also Jim VE3BRL, Bob VA3BHD, Tim VE6PG, Bill VE3LVL and a number of others. I try to get on with them when I get home from work, at least for a while before everyone leaves for dinner. They appreciate and welcome the increased AM activity from south of their border. They just don't get on much in the evenings.

 *3733 - Bill 'DUQ and Ralph W3GL have a brief 'What's For Dinner' gathering here until 1800 east coast time, when they vacate to group of SSBers who have a net there. You need to be quicker on the trigger than Ralph, no small feat. Plan on moving to a different frequency at 1800.

 *3650-3750 - Don K4KYV and myself both mentioned this area as a place to find AM activity in the evenings. Yes, you might have to tune more than 10kcs of dial space. I can't go below 3700 (3710, more realistically) until I upgrade but I do hear Don and others like Buddly and Gary K4X? down there from time to time, around 3685 and other spots.

I appreciate what you guys are saying about having a spot, but when all else fails - make one! Call CQ, it seems more folks are willing to listen and will jump in once someone else does the big nasty by calling CQ. If you don't hear a QSO in progress, spin that receiver dial to a clear spot and start one. Works wonders, or it would if folks actually went down there. I find most, but not all contacts between 3710-3735.

Maybe it's more about the majority needing to be lead, or having someone else do it for them. Dunno. I heard W3JN down around 3730 last weekend talking with someone for their first AM QSO, or maybe first in years. I've had that happen a number of times below 3800. Many of the folks down there haven't been exposed to the crap up above and don't have the SSB vs. AM mentality going.

So yes - some 'spots' or calling frequencies have been out there all along. We've just tried to avoid the type of thing that gives ammo to the 'get back in your little box' idiots. But there's nothing homeless about finding a spot and calling CQ. It's as much a tradition as anything else we cling to. If not for someone starting a conversation, the bands would be dead.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: W9GT on March 08, 2007, 04:11:19 PM
Jack and others -

I appreciate what you guys are saying about having a spot, but when all else fails - make one! Call CQ, it seems more folks are willing to listen and will jump in once someone else does the big nasty by calling CQ. If you don't hear a QSO in progress, spin that receiver dial to a clear spot and start one. Works wonders, or it would if folks actually went down there. I find most, but not all contacts between 3710-3735.

Maybe it's more about the majority needing to be lead, or having someone else do it for them. Dunno. I heard W3JN down around 3730 last weekend talking with someone for their first AM QSO, or maybe first in years. I've had that happen a number of times below 3800. Many of the folks down there haven't been exposed to the crap up above and don't have the SSB vs. AM mentality going.

So yes - some 'spots' or calling frequencies have been out there all along. We've just tried to avoid the type of thing that gives ammo to the 'get back in your little box' idiots. But there's nothing homeless about finding a spot and calling CQ. It's as much a tradition as anything else we cling to. If not for someone starting a conversation, the bands would be dead.
Thanks for the comments everyone..............................................and....
Good points Todd!  I, as an old buzzard op licensed for 48 yrs, have never (at least for the past 47 yrs) been "shy" about calling CQ!  But....(reality check) here.....as Don stated earlier, I have found that many times repeated CQs resulted in nothing more than nasty retorts and taunting by sickie slop-bucketeers and even a few disgruntled, misplaced CW ops. Lets face it...there is strength in numbers and hanging-out in the same areas of the band...helps clear the weeds for everyone.  Those areas, however, can certainly be larger than the "Ghetto".  Your examples and suggested frik-a-cies have merit and perhaps we just need to spread the word a little more and lead by example.

73,  Jack, W9GT :) ;)


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Herb K2VH on March 08, 2007, 06:12:25 PM
Went low last nite and called CQ till I was blue in the face.

Finally went to the ghetto and we set it on fire !!

I just got off of 3657 after calling CQ for over a half hour.  No answer.  Is that the solution?  Do what Bud did, and others have done -- go to the "ghetto," and battle the slop bucketeers?
Seems rather silly.  But you could still shoot a canon through 3600-3700.  Hope y'all enjoy the ghetto.  ::)  This thread is getting repetitive.  :o

vH


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 08, 2007, 10:07:08 PM
I called CQ this evening at around 6PM ET on 3716 kHz and got an immediate reply from KA4ICK, Mark in Kingsport, TN. Had a nice QSO for about a half hour with no QRM. Todd, KA1KAQ joined in near the tail end.

It can be done. Ya gotta get off those Novice freqs Herb. :P


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WA3VJB on March 08, 2007, 10:17:50 PM
Call CQ on a split.

When 3885 is clear, call CQ and announce that you're listening on 3775 or wherever.
When you get an answer, invite the station to make one and that you'll be right down to zero beat.



Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 09, 2007, 08:34:16 AM
Ah come on Mack, just go upgrade and get on the air. It's a lot more fun than making posts here. Join in on the radio action. I'll even make a road trip to your QTH to put up an antenna. What say?



Mack,
        I just have problems with someone who "talk the talk" but cant "walk the walk" When I looked you up and found that you only had a tech lisence I knew that you were not the AMer you came off to be. As easy as it is to upgrade these days, there is no reason to hang onto a tech lisence. I would think that it would be a lot more fun to test your stuff into an antenna tham a dummy load. If my wife can get a general ticket, you should not have any problems. Stop being a "wannabe", get a general ticket and join us.

                                                       The Slab Bacon

                                               

Whatever, opinions and rectums, everybody has one.

You play with your toys your way, for now I'll play with mine my way.

Nothing to get ones' panties in a wad about, for either of us.



Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Herb K2VH on March 09, 2007, 08:46:32 AM
It can be done. Ya gotta get off those Novice freqs Herb. :P

Son - ' gun!  Here I thought those were Extra Freqs, Steve.  ???


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 09, 2007, 09:35:59 AM
Novice, Extra... it's all about the same now days.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Todd, KA1KAQ on March 09, 2007, 10:50:11 AM
Enjoyed the chat, Steve - wish I'd gotten home sooner. I did come back later and called CQ. Nick, VE3OWV in Ontario responded, after he signed I called again and worked VE1UF in New Scotland. Had a nice, long QSO with Dave about his days in broadcasting and his site, which is a former broadcast site complete with tower and transmitter building.

Left the air around 21:22 while Dave talked with a couple of other VE stations, one of whom he helped get his ricebox dialed in for AM.

You've got the right idea Herb, but if you don't stir up any activity below 3700, try 3725 +/-. Steve called on 3716 and got a response, I called on 3721 and got several responses, despite slopbucketeers moving in 2kcs away during one QSO. Was hoping to hear W9GT, maybe WD8BIL and others, but no luck.

There's really no reason we can't have good AM representation below 3800 nightly, it just requires breaking old habits and a bit of commitment to follow through. As Steve mentioned previously, it's not a case of one place or the other, but utilizing both. With all the participation and amazement down there initially, I wonder where everyone went.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WD8BIL on March 09, 2007, 11:07:48 AM
Quote
There's really no reason we can't have good AM representation below 3800 nightly,

Family, huntin', church, huntin', work, huntin'.... to name a few good reasons.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 09, 2007, 01:09:08 PM
You forgot fishin'.


Quote
There's really no reason we can't have good AM representation below 3800 nightly,

Family, huntin', church, huntin', work, huntin'.... to name a few good reasons.



Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: k4kyv on March 09, 2007, 01:24:54 PM
Call CQ on a split.

When 3885 is clear, call CQ and announce that you're listening on 3775 or wherever.
When you get an answer, invite the station to make one and that you'll be right down to zero beat.

I don't see that as a practical technique.  We already have too much split operation by DX chasers because of US subband restrictions, particularly on 40m.

The problem many of us would have with the 3885 calling frequency -> QSY approach is that most of our classic tube rigs are not frequency agile.  At the minimum, the rf stages have to be peaked and dipped, along with adjusting any antenna tuning networks.  In some cases, like mine, the antenna tuner is down at the base of the tower, allowing some latitude for QSY, but not as far as from 3885 to 3600-3700.  Others my be xtal control with plug in crystals.

Generally, receivers are a lot more frequency agile than transmitters.  Wouldn't it be easier to simply get into the habit of tuning throughout the frequency range where one is licensed or quickly available with the transmitter/antenna system , ready to respond to any activity heard, and if no AM activity is heard, simply finding a clear spot and calling CQ.  I usually make my CQ's mode-specific:  "CQ 75 (or 80, 40, 160 etc) mtrs AM phone."  or simply something like "CQ 75 mtrs AM". 

Since the band expansion, this has brought MANY ricebox operators out of the woodwork who tried their rigs on AM for the first time.  Some have said that they used to work AM years ago, while others have said that was the first time they ever tried the mode.  I don't think anyone has ever answered my call with a negative comment about my running AM.  I have had a few jammers and anonymous negative comments, but those have been few and far between. 

Occasionally, what sounds like a clear frequency, with no-one transmitting on or near it for 20 minutes or more, is one occupied by a dead-air group that listens 24/7 and rarely transmits but instantly pounces on anyone who dares come near "their" frequency, but I just ignore those, or remind them that amateur freqs are first-come, first-served, and it's like stepping out of the queue at the bank teller line - you go back to the end when you decide it's time to return.

A time or two when I was unable to establish an AM QSO, I have tuned around and eavesdropped on some of the SSB conversations in the new segments, and I have heard a substantial amount of pissing and moaning about the existence of AM activity in the extra class zone.  This would seem to me to be prime territory to run AM, since it is less congested with a lot of clear spots even during prime time hours on weekends.  I even heard one slopbucketeer make the bogus claim to his buddies that calling a long CQ on AM is "broadcasting" and therefore illegal.  ;D ;D
The point is, there will be less hassle with the SSB community if there is enough AM presence throughout the band that it will appear completely normal to hear AM activity anywhere in the phone bands.



Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WD8BIL on March 09, 2007, 01:35:28 PM
Quote
You forgot fishin'.

Oh ya.... huntin', fishin', huntin'.......ect



Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Todd, KA1KAQ on March 09, 2007, 02:35:13 PM
Quote
You forgot fishin'.

Oh ya.... huntin', fishin', huntin'.......ect

Oh, sure. You'd like us to think you're a skilled fisherman, but we know it was the camouflage. He never saw you coming...


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 09, 2007, 02:40:21 PM
A well placed couple of sticks of dynamite and a brick can make ANYONE a skilled fisherman!! ;D ;D


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 09, 2007, 02:43:41 PM
I hope to hear some of y'all in the ghetto or SOMEWHERE on the band tonight. After all itz friday, and friday nite is radio night!! Dont talk about it, just do it!! Letz play some radio tonight, I need a fix!!

                                    The Slab Bacon


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Todd, KA1KAQ on March 09, 2007, 02:54:40 PM
I'll be down below 3800 if I can get some help. If the ghetto quiets down at a reasonable hour, I'll jump in with both feet. What's the official bedtime hour for the SSB knuckledraggers and dimwits who dwell around that area? I already know that we're not smart enough to go to bed at a reasonable hour, at least not as long as there's coffee to drink...


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 09, 2007, 03:01:28 PM
Ah yes, hot bean juice!! The elyxir of life!! Dont leave home without it!!


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WD8BIL on March 09, 2007, 03:06:13 PM
Quote
He never saw you coming...

Makes us even..... I never saw him either !!!

I'll be on tonite Frank. Gotta get the fix in.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: k4kyv on March 09, 2007, 03:48:12 PM
I hope to hear some of y'all in the ghetto or SOMEWHERE on the band tonight. After all itz friday, and friday nite is radio night!! Dont talk about it, just do it!!

Of course it's Friday night, so the T-storms are coming in, per Vaisala.

http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=92

http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t60690.html


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WA3VJB on March 09, 2007, 06:01:34 PM
Quote
The point is, there will be less hassle with the SSB community if there is enough AM presence throughout the band that it will appear completely normal to hear AM activity anywhere in the phone bands.

I've heard that somewhere.
Oh yeah. That's why we have been frequency agile down low instead "claiming" a new spot.

Don't expect things to shift and settle in a few months' time. It may take years. Just keep at it to make it a habit.

See you tonight.



Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: K1MVP on March 09, 2007, 10:07:44 PM
Novice, Extra... it's all about the same now days.

Man,--ain`t that the truth Steve.
                                        73, K1MVP


Title: Great nite in the ghetto!
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 10, 2007, 01:29:54 AM
It was a great night in the ghetto tonight.  Great signals till the band finally went away.
WD8BIL, W2DTC, W2ZE, W1IA, KB3JKG, WA1KNX, KB3OMT, myself, and several others that my tired head cant remember. Big signals and minimal ssb qwerm.

I spun the receiver dial and found Todd and Bruce on 3.725, they were getting hammered by slopbuckets. I then spun back to the ghetto and hung out for the rest of the evening.

As I have said before, the ghetto isnt ALWAYS such a bad place to hang out!! Its all a matter of when. I got my well needed friday night radio fix!

Thanks guys, the money is under the pillow! ;D ;D

                                                                                    The Slab Bacon


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: W2XR on March 10, 2007, 01:44:44 AM
Hi Frank,

Actually the band was not that bad down around 3725 last night. K4KYV, KA1KAQ, K4XT/8, and KF4GZN in eastern Kentucky and I held the frequency from around 9PM until 1:30 AM. I did have to hold the SP-600 down the 3 Khz Bw most of the time, but it was'nt so much the QRM as it was the changing band condx. that made it tough at times. Dave/K2DK called me around 1 AM, but the band really started to stretch at that point and I could no longer copy him at around 1:30 AM EST.  That's when I pulled the breakers on the rig, after being down there for a little over 4 hours. Great QSOs down here in the suburbs. Come on down, the water is fine!

I listened in the ghetto around 12:30 AM, and all I heard were a few stations on the West Coast. Could'nt even tell you were in there, which is most unusual.

73,

Bruce


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: k4kyv on March 10, 2007, 09:34:10 AM
I dozed off after the QSO, but came back out to the shack later.  The QRN had vanished, but I didn't hear much of interest on 160 or 80/75, so didn't turn the xmttr back on.

I did some SWL'ing on 40m. after midnight local time.  Europeans were coming in S9+40 between 7060 and the first broadcast  station on 7120.  I listened to a couple of F stations talk to each other for almost a half hour around 0700-0730 GMT.  They were  stronger than any of the US/VE stations on the band at the time.

40m would be a VERY nice phone DX band in the wee hours of the morning if we didn't still have those damned subband restrictions.  I don't know why the 40m phone band expansion didn't extend at least down to 7075, since the FeeCee was willing to grant us all the way down to 3600 on 80m, and there is very little domestic CW/digital activity above 7075.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WD8BIL on March 10, 2007, 02:45:57 PM
Quote
Big signals and minimal ssb qwerm.


And the snow flies...
On 75 meters in a big qwerm storm
another pissweak AMer is scorned
In the ghetto..
and his tubes fry..

cause if there's one thing that he could use
its a bigass leenyar with a golden fuse
in the ghettoooooooo

and his elmer cries (in the ghetto)
ahhooooooo.....



Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Herb K2VH on March 10, 2007, 03:03:16 PM
Quote
Big signals and minimal ssb qwerm.


And the snow flies...
On 75 meters in a big qwerm storm
another pissweak AMer is scorned
In the ghetto..
and his tubes fry..

cause if there's one thing that he could use
its a bigass leenyar with a golden fuse
in the ghettoooooooo

and his elmer cries (in the ghetto)
ahhooooooo.....



Thank you, Elvis.  That was lovely.

vH


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 10, 2007, 04:06:49 PM
Did somebody say Elvis?

(http://www.amwindow.org/misc/jpg/timvis.jpg)


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Herb K2VH on March 10, 2007, 04:34:03 PM
Did somebody say Elvis?

(http://www.amwindow.org/misc/jpg/timvis.jpg)

Thank you, Elvis.  You are lovely.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 10, 2007, 09:55:37 PM
Had AM action on both 3733 and 3720 from 5 to 9 PM ET. Only a handful of people showed up. Where were the rest of you losers?

Those who bothered to show:

W3DUQ
W3GL
W3JN
K3ZRF
KA1KAQ
W9GT
N8LGU


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: k4kyv on March 10, 2007, 11:09:05 PM
A little early for me, but when I listened at about 0300 GMT, there was NO AM on 75/80 to be heard anywhere.  There was an AM QSO on 1885, and maybe a weak signal on 1995.  Heavy QRN from the Texas/Oklahoma panhandle region.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 10, 2007, 11:22:28 PM
The static was getting kinda heavy by the time I signed.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: W2XR on March 11, 2007, 12:32:19 AM
This was not a radio night. Took the XYL out for dinner and a movie. By the looks of things, it appears like I did'nt miss too much anyway, and by the time we returned to the QTH, there was a thunderstorm raging here on Long Island.

73,

Bruce


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 11, 2007, 12:52:29 AM
This was not a radio night. Took the XYL out for dinner and a movie. By the looks of things, it appears like I did'nt miss too much anyway, and by the time we returned to the QTH, there was a thunderstorm raging here on Long Island.

73,

Bruce


Ah, Ha!! you did it!! ;D ;D

I had to go the funeral parlor this evening. I got home around 9:pm or so. The YL wuz bitchin that she wanted to play some radio(go figger!!) I fired up the recievers and the band wuz long and the
craddick stashes were horrendous!! I shut the stuff off and went up and watched some tv.
(and other things) :o :o
                                           
                                                                         The Slab Bacon
             
                                                                 


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: W2XR on March 11, 2007, 01:52:42 AM
Hey Frank,

Yeah, nice evening out with the YL tonight. For a change, I did not bore her over dinner with issues of power supply bounce in high voltage power supplies with complex non-linear impedances, transient intermodulation distortion and slew rate in linear amplifiers, and the application of inverse feedback circuits to reduce carrier shift in PDM transmitters.

Hope you did not lose anyone too close.

Because of the t-storms, I did'nt fire up Old Betsy tonight.

73,

Bruce



Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Herb K2VH on March 11, 2007, 08:30:32 AM
Where were the rest of you losers?

I was in the Novice Band.  :o



Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 11, 2007, 01:39:14 PM
I thought I heard some rough CW down there. :-*


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 11, 2007, 02:29:02 PM
Hey Frank,

Yeah, nice evening out with the YL tonight. For a change, I did not bore her over dinner with issues of power supply bounce in high voltage power supplies with complex non-linear impedances, transient intermodulation distortion and slew rate in linear amplifiers, and the application of inverse feedback circuits to reduce carrier shift in PDM transmitters.
Hope you did not lose anyone too close.
Because of the t-storms, I did'nt fire up Old Betsy tonight.
73,
Bruce

Nah, just an elder uncle that i didnt really care too much for, I just had to show my face, you know itz a family thing.

Since radio condx wuz so bad, we were having an applied math/physics class devoted to the inverse square law, you know:

the angle of the dangle is not directly proportional to the arc of .................. but the mass of the ... stays constant.  And inversly the arc of the ........ is therfore directly proportional to the heat of the ....!
 :o :o

                                                                       The Slab Bacon


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: wa1knx on March 11, 2007, 08:07:45 PM
yo,
    long thread here. I listle a bit down below, but hazard heard much. problem here is
the beam. I need the gain antenna to get back east ok, but have worked (much weaker)
down 3685. prolly I shud rework it into a log ant ? Id be frequency whorle wide!


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 11, 2007, 08:56:59 PM
Good conditions down low again the evening. Had a nice group on 3733 and 3715 from 5-7:30 PM. Had the RX in the widest IF BW the entire time.

Deano you be WHIRL WIDE on ALL channels.



Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WA3VJB on March 11, 2007, 09:47:05 PM
Yeup, extended 1 on 1 with a guy in Roanoke VA and then a guy in York PA, 6p-8p, 3764Kc.

Steve yer receiver looks a little pinched, over over


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: wa1knx on March 12, 2007, 12:26:08 AM
I be whirl wide, down below,,, dat maks me a low-rider!


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: w3jn on March 12, 2007, 07:35:20 AM
Paul   ;D ;D

As you might recall, Steve has re-arranged the filters in his 51J.  One position bypasses the filters completely, the second is 9KC and the third is 6 KC.

Where do I buy these special KA2J filters?


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WA1GFZ on March 12, 2007, 08:50:55 AM
I did some simulations of LC filters and you can make a nice filter with 4 or 5 parallel tuned circuits. I would think a few IF transformers lightly coupled would make a nice wide clean filter. fc


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 12, 2007, 09:58:06 AM
Works out to be about 12-13 kHz in the 51J-4. That was the BW I was listening to JN with all last evening. The GPT-750 sounded very FB. Also fired up the SX-17 and the SP-600 to give a listen with those RXs. The SX-16 is probably 15/16 kHz wide in the Broad selectivity setting and the SP-600 has that nice 13 kHz setting. Both are LC filters.


I did some simulations of LC filters and you can make a nice filter with 4 or 5 parallel tuned circuits. I would think a few IF transformers lightly coupled would make a nice wide clean filter. fc


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 12, 2007, 10:21:47 AM
Had a very nice qso in the ghetto Sunday afternoon around 3:00.
Myself, N3IBX, KB3CYX/AG, KA1ZGC, WA2DTW, and a few others. Nice relaxed unqwermed qso. Around 4:30 midwest qso started some low heterodynes as the qso was beaking up. Went down and joined the "whatz fer dinnah" net on 3.733. Everybody wuz sounding quite FB! John's GPT-750 was definately the channel master, but everybody was sounding quite good.
                                                The Slab Bacon


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Todd, KA1KAQ on March 12, 2007, 02:47:01 PM
I tuned up there last night, Frank. Heard Bill 'I Fart Raisins', Tom 'ZGC, Guy 'FRM and a couple others. Just as I was thinking about moving the transmitter up, the slop increased along with the carrier freak, so I called it a day. We don't get a lot of SSB trouble below 3800, but there is some. I expect it will continue to increase as there is less and less AM activity down there. We've had the ideal opportunity to have an area where jamming and garbage is the exception instead of the norm. Many of the folks who raved about it, though, are MIA. But then, no one ever claimed there wasn't a lot of hot air involved with AM. ;)

Has anyone heard 'VJB other than here on the board? I'm wondering if he was bad and got his radio taken away.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WA3VJB on March 12, 2007, 04:00:00 PM
As you might recall, Steve has re-arranged the filters in his 51J.  One position bypasses the filters completely, the second is 9KC and the third is 6 KC.

Oh.



Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 12, 2007, 04:34:53 PM
Todd,
         I left the Whatz fa dinnah net around 5:45 and never got back on that night. I have had some good qso's down in the quieter parts of the band, but activity is somewhat sparse. With having to adjust all of the junque to move that far, I am much more likely to be where more of the action is. I'll admit I like it more down there, but a lot of the people just dont or cant go there. The ghetto usually gets bad in the evening then quiets down later at night. I think that some of the guys have "fan clubs" ;D that follow them around.
      
                                                     The Slab Bacon


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 12, 2007, 04:38:29 PM

That's why I have a J3 & J4.
[/quote]


Well, hitch them up to a transmitter and get on and use them once in a while!


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WA3VJB on March 13, 2007, 05:40:27 AM
Quote
Has anyone heard 'VJB other than here on the board? I'm wondering if he was bad and got his radio taken away.

Hey Todd,
Yes, enjoyed a couple hours down low Sunday, with two relative newcomers.

K4WFO
, Phil near Roanoke, Va. had made only about a half dozen contacts on 75 meters, ever, when he answered my CQ on 3765Kc. Turns out he is restoring a Hallicrafters HT37 and has a Hammarlund HQ170.

Then, as I signed with him, a fellow in York, Penna. called me. WA3ONG, Jay was running a newly repaired TX-1 with an NC300. The Apache had some 120~ hum in there and we worked it over for a while. He's also got a 32V3 and 75A3 combination.

Both these fellows are not "regulars" on AM, yet, but by having spent an hour or more testing things out, I got the impression they will be back regularly.  I always enjoy a QSO like that.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 13, 2007, 09:20:37 AM
Indeed. Always good to be on the air and hear others joining the scene. Good to see those boatanchors aren't collecting dust.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: k4kyv on March 13, 2007, 12:19:22 PM
Things seemed pretty sparse on 75  late last night.  I listened some, then dozed off.  When I awoke at about 0500 GMT, there was no AM activity anywhere I could hear in the band, just a  little slopbucket and considerable static crashes.  Just for the hell of it, I decided to call CQ on 3685 one time before going to bed.  One station came back with 25 marginally readable AM watts (from NY as I recall), and as we chatted through the QRN, the frequency came alive with several full-quieting AM signals, and I didn't get to bed till about 2 hours later. 


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 13, 2007, 01:10:27 PM
I had a nice Qwerm free qso right in the heart of the ghetto yesterday evening around 7 PM. Clear and qwerm free! It seemed that all of the qwermers migrated down to the qwerm the macaroni net net on 3872. this left the upper part of the ghetto clear and clean! Condx were very good. I hated to sign out at 9:00, but 0dark30 comes too early to stay up any later.


The one problem with going down band is that not all of the people that I like to talk to can go there. Many of them only have general class lisences and cannot follow us down there. (that is the only reason that I upgraded) This can create problems that everyone is spread all over the place and you dont know where to look for them.

I do occasionally spin the receiver dial and listen around when the ghetto is either too conjested or too empty. As I listen down the band, out of the general portion, I am hearing am qsos all through the advanced and extra portions. As I listen to these am qsos I am hearing callsigns that I have never heard before on am. This is a rather interesting phenom. It does seem that the fone band expansion is drawing others in to try am that wouldnt have before.

As I have said before, I was looking through an old log (when I used to keep one) and a lot of the callsigns that I used to work are not heard from in a looonnnngg time. It seems that this expansion has brought out a "new crop" of amers. Where will this go is a good question. Do we stay in the ghetto or move up to the "lower east side"?? I am still ginding a lot of really nice qsos in the ghetto, but the "promised land" sure looks promising as well. I guess we'll have to figger out some meeting place at both ends of the band as not everyone can join in down there.

                                             the Slab Bacon


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: WD8BIL on March 13, 2007, 01:31:14 PM
Didn't get on till around 9PM last nite.
Had a great chat with Bob 2ZM and Joe GMS on 160M.

Found out Joe and I had a lot in common with our jobs.

With 72 degrees here today I'm afraid 160M might be a bit noisy tonite.
Back to 75/80 !


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: kf4qkr on March 17, 2007, 08:33:12 PM
I dont think the term ghetto is offinsive.To much political correct BS is offensive to me.I upgraded and built my homebrew just to get in the ghetto.My vfo has wandered a few times to other spots and the slop buckets cry foul.All and all I am proud to call the ghetto home.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Herb K2VH on March 18, 2007, 03:46:34 AM
Welcome to HF AM Mike, KF4QKR.  I am sure you will enjoy it.  BTW, I looked you up, and the sites say your ticket expires on the 6th of next month.  :o  Are you aware of that?  Time to renew.  :)

73,
de K2VHerb


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Steve - WB3HUZ on March 18, 2007, 02:31:59 PM
Great to work you the other night Mike. Your homebrew rig was putting out a good signal. Catch you again in the Ghetto or elsewhere.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: The Slab Bacon on March 18, 2007, 02:51:45 PM
Mike, (qkr)
                 It was good to hear you again, its been quite a while. Each time I hear your little HB transmitter, it sounds better and better!
 
                                                                              The Slab Bacon


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: k4kyv on March 18, 2007, 03:13:22 PM
Last night (early Sunday morning) I heard no AM activity in the Extra segment.  There was an ongoing QSO near 3775, but already 3-4 participants discussing a topic for which I felt I couldn't make a worthwhile contribution, so I didn't attempt to "break in".

Instead, I called CQ on about 3684. A weak but nearly 100% readable station in MI came back, using a SSB transceiver on AM for the first time.  He was running only 25 watts.  We talked for a long while.  He had been a SWL since the late 50's, and a ham since the 70's.  He was well versed in vintage ham radio, and we discussed many of the aspects of ham radio from the late 50's to present, and how our interests in radio started.  At the end he told me how much he enjoyed the conversation and said he planned to listen and join us some more.

Another station that joined the QSO was located in the far eastern portion of TN and had worked me a couple of times previously.  He was on the air with a new Ten-Tec Orion followed by a linear amplifier.  He sounded fabulous on AM.  I told him he could have claimed he had a refurbished broadcast transmitter on the air and I would have believed him. 

After both of those stations signed out, a W5 from Mississippi called me.  He was trying out his rig on AM for the first time.  Running a transceiver to an Ameritron linear with a quad of 811A's.  At first his audio was weak and mushy, but he had a very strong carrier.  He asked me to help him get it adjusted to sound good on AM.  After a while of discussing just how a linear ought to work on AM, what his DC input should be, what his RF carrier output and p.e.p. should be, the plate dissipation issue with the tubes, which meter should kick upwards with modulation and which should stand still, etc. he finally got a good sounding signal on the air with full modulation.  By then it was 0900 GMT, so I called it quits for the night.  He said that he would be back on the air with AM, and that he had a nearby friend trying to get a 250-watt AM broadcast rig on the air, and that he might start looking for one himself.  In the meantime he was going to drag his old Tectronix scope into the shack so he could monitor his envelope waveform.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: kf4qkr on March 22, 2007, 12:03:41 AM
  Thanks Herb it almost slipped my mind! It should show up as renewed on QRZ in a day or two. Steve , strapping signal here in Winston-Salem also!Thanks Frank.It was a real pleasure checking in with you guys on 3888 on a classic  AM friday night in the ghetto.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: k4kyv on March 25, 2007, 09:32:58 PM
I was back in the Ghetto last night (Saturday night).  The quarmtesters pretty well had 3600-3800 trashed, along with the QRN, so I QSY'ed to 3885.  I worked several stations with good signals, and every time I was about to sign off with one AM station, another AM station would call.  Finally called it quits after about 2 hours of non-stop AM operation.  But I didn't hear that much other activity.  The static must have driven many people away from the radio.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Todd, KA1KAQ on March 26, 2007, 10:42:19 AM
I was up there Saturday night for a while, Don. It was tolerable at first, even enjoyable. Then the crap started, along with weird band conditions, so I finally gave up and called it a night. I did hear you in there at around 2AM EDT.

The corntesters were wasting much of the band in an attempt to out-corn their rivals. I think this makes three weekends in a row. When we were on 3724 Friday night, I heard one of them pissing and moaning about AMers QRMing them. This, despite the fact that we were on the frequency long before the corntest started. It's a corntest night, therefore they assume ownership of all frequencies. Those of us actually daring to participate in actual radio communication activity instead of egomania apparently shouldn't be on the air.

Shame on us.  ::)


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: k4kyv on March 26, 2007, 03:59:08 PM
Here's an actual quarmtest interchange as I heard it, word for word as best as I can recall.

"...CTX.  Please repeat.  I didn't get your prefix.  You are very weak in the static."

(other station comes back and gives his call several times)

"CTX, come back again. I still don't have your prefix.  QRZ CTX."

(this conversation repeated several more times, until the other station finally gets his prefix)

"QSL, you're 5-9 in
(other station's state).  73.  Good luck in the contest."  ::)

I think this was some kind of DX quarmtest sponsored by CQ Magazine.


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: Herb K2VH on March 26, 2007, 07:19:07 PM
  Thanks Herb it almost slipped my mind! It should show up as renewed on QRZ in a day or two.

Mike,

I just read this and checked with QRZ.com.  You weren't renewed there.  Then I went to Buckmaster.com.  Not renewed there either.  But they have a link to the FCC, which I checked, and You are renewed, and good till April 6, 2017.  Hooray!

vH


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: W4EWH on March 26, 2007, 08:40:12 PM
I did some simulations of LC filters and you can make a nice filter with 4 or 5 parallel tuned circuits. I would think a few IF transformers lightly coupled would make a nice wide clean filter. fc

OM,

Please tell me if that's possible with a TR-4: I just got one, but it's only 2.8KHz wide and I want to do AM with it.

TIA.

73, Bill W1AC


Title: Re: The AM Ghetto
Post by: W2JBL on March 27, 2007, 08:26:49 PM
i use the Inrad #2311 6KC filter in the TR4-CW. so does KF2SY. works very well in place of the CW filter. transmitting through it on "SSB" makes nice bandwidth limited DSB suppressed carrier too. LC filters are not easy to do at 9MHZ. the crystal filter nails it in one (expensive) shot.
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