GFI Breakers

[WA1GFZ]

Last night someone on the Gray hair Net was talking about tripping his GFI breaker to his shack and thought it was RF getting into the breaker. I was sitting in front of my V2 and noticed a .005 uf cap to chassis. Many older rigs had bypass caps on the line for TVI reasons. This could allow enough current flow into the ground to trip the breaker.
I will be in the same boat so I think the thing to do is snip them out since I plan to replace the cord with a 3 wire cord.

[KB2WIG]

Before I would do that , I'd try replacing the .005 with an approved line to gnd cap. Mouser, digikey etc have these things...

Rf getting into/on the line can cause gfi's to trip... A lot of the older 'stuff we play around with have leakey caps.

The accross the line and line to gnd can keep some of the crap on the pwr lines out.

The 3wire cordage is a good idea.  Hope the receptacles are wired O.K. You can get a plug in tester at homodepot etc for a few bucks.

This site has accurate info r/e the above caps..   http://www.justradios.com/safetytips.html

klc

[n3lrx]

RF does not need to get into the line to trip GFI's even the slightest amount of RF trips them. The one in my kitchen and bathroom even trips if I'm close to it with a cellphone. An HT even at the lowest setting also trips it with not physical connection.

The problem could be too much RF in the shack and not on the line. Just another possible cause..

[W1RKW]

Randy,
I have GFI's all over my place though I've never trip one using the cell phone or the HT.  Does a load have to be on that circuit to get a trip or will they trip in an open circuited condition?

[n3lrx]

I've tripped mine just by keying up the HT or using the cellphone nearby. No connection at all free air space.
If the cellphone is sitting close to the receptacle and it polls the cell site it will also trip the GFI even if the phone is not connected to the socket in any way. GFI's don't like RF. If enough current is induced on the circuit even if it's stray RF they trip thinking it's a short.
 
It even does it when there is no load on the circuit at all. 

[WA1GFZ]

Are we talking about GFI outlets or breakers located in the panel?
question for both yous guys
I need to have GFI breakers in the basement. Sounds like GFI outlets could put RF closer to the hair trigger....

[WA2ONK]

I have two GFI breakers in the panel and two GFI recepticals in other parts of the house. When I operate 40mtrs with 150watts carrier, I trip one of the GFI breakers in the panel. The other panel GFI and the two recepticals are fine. This is when I am using the inverted V that is pretty much over my house. When I switch to the vertical, which is further from the house, all is ok.

The breaker that trips in the panel has more romex on it than the other in the panel. So I am figuring, in my situation that more rf is being introduced in the one breaker GFI, because of the longer run of romex. 

When I run the Ranger, with about 40watts carrier, I have no problem with the tripping on the inverted V.

Chuck...

[k4kyv]

Are you talking about Ground Fault Breakers or Arc Fault Breakers?  The arc fault breakers operate on the principle of detecting rf (hash on the a.c. waveform from an arc somewhere in the circuit) and would be susceptible to tripping from stray rf.  The GFI breakers simply detect unbalance between the hot and neutral wires, and shouldn't be affected by rf any more than a normal circuit breaker.

[WA2ONK]

Don,  In my case they are the standard GFI's, Ground fault.

Chuck...

[W1RKW]

Are we talking about GFI outlets or breakers located in the panel?
question for both yous guys
I need to have GFI breakers in the basement. Sounds like GFI outlets could put RF closer to the hair trigger....

In my case it's both breaker and outlet but I don't have any troubles with RF tripping.  I have more trouble with tripping with a couple of outside outlets when it is damp outside.

[WA1GFZ]

I was lucky to get my building permit just before they required arc faults....happy camper. I'll let the cat warn us if there is a problem.

[WD8BIL]

.01uf 1KV "Y" caps AT LOAD SIDE OF THE BREAKERS to ground solved the problem in my box.

Drill a small pilot hole in the box for a self-tapping screw (i use #6 hardware) to connect the cap to ground. If the ground buss bar is close enough you can use that.
 Put the other cap lead in the breaker along with the wire to the circuit in question.

OF COURSE>>> Turn off the Main breaker before sticking you hands in there.<<<<<<
 

[k4kyv]

I would use arc fault breakers if (1) I didn't think rf from my transmitter would trip them, and (2) if the damn things weren't so expensive.  Last time I checked at the local Lowe's or Home Cheapo, they were selling for almost $50 each, and they had them in locked cabinets accessible only to store personnel.  They said they were losing too many to shoplifters. 

Thieves are ripping them out of unfinished houses under construction - along with the copper wiring.

My house would be a prime candidate for the devices, since the wiring is concealed deep inside the walls and dates back to the mid-30's.  It uses the early romex type cable that used tar-impregnated cloth insulation, which is dry and brittle now.  As long as it is not physically disturbed, the wiring seems stable and safe enough.  The electrician soldered all connections before wrapping with tape.  It would be a major job to completely replace all that old wiring.  I wish they had wired the house with knob-and-tube construction.  Despite the fact that new K&T wiring is prohibited under most modern day electrical codes, I still say that was the safest method of wiring a house before the advent of non-deteriorating plastic insulation, and would be even safer today using that single-strand stuff with the durable transparent sheath over the plastic insulation.

An arc is much more dangerous than a  dead short.  Short circuited wiring will heat up enough to start a fire only if circuit is inadequately fused, but a loose wire that forms an arc at the poor connection will get very hot and yet may draw less than an ampere.  I have found one of the major culprits of loose connections that form arcs to be improperly used wire nuts.  I maintain than soldering is safer and more reliable since it is so easy to leave the wires loosely connected with wire nuts, but some local electrical codes prohibit soldering, although my newest copy of the NEC, which is still quite a few years old, still provides for soldered connections in house wiring.

[flintstone mop]

GFI's should be banned inside the house!!! I can see their purpose outside where there are many ways to get zapped. It must be paranoia like the 3 prong plugs with the safety ground pointing up so that "something won't slip down between the Hot and Neutral prongs of the plug"..........hi

G'day
Fred