The Old Movie Sound

[flintstone mop]

Hello 'xperts,
How many of us remember the way movies used to sound in the theater or on TV back in the 60's and 70's?? BEFORE the intervention of computer software and wireless mics?? Audio editing and added sound effects?? Remember that telephone quality audio for the dialouge?? I'm sure the audio 'xperts Nick KG2IR or Bill KC2IFR, a fellow projectionist, can relate to movie sound from those years passed.


Fred

[John Holotko]

Well, as  far as black and white movies go I really like the quality of the old celluloid (nitrate) film. When projected on screen it seems to have a sort of brilliance and radiance that is really  evidenct on many of the old silent films and early films from ther 20's , 30's, etc. That same type of radiance seems less noticeable on the films used later on.

[Ian VK3KRI]

Well, as  far as black and white movies go I really like the quality of the old celluloid (nitrate) film. When projected on screen it seems to have a sort of brilliance and radiance that is really  evidenct on many of the old silent films and early films from ther 20's , 30's, etc. That same type of radiance seems less noticeable on the films used later on.

I have a sneaking idea that some of that may have been due to the original negatives having peak sesitivity at only certains wavelengths whereas later films had better sensitivity balance over  the  entire range. Also I doubt if Ive ever actually seen any movie that didn't have at least one generation on non-nitrate stock.

As to movie sound,  optical and magnetic soundtracks should be capable of much better then 'telephone' quality if theyre set up properly and the film stock is in decent condition. However if the photocell for the optical pickup is dirty or not aligned propery you get tha same effects as on magnetic tape, poor SNR and loss of high frequencies
                                                                                     
Hmmm now I think about it I'm probably from the last genetration that will actually have the chance to have played with a real movie projector   
                                                                                     Ian VK3KRI

[Jeff OGM]

Another factor to consider in all of this is "old movie" sound track content.  Today's films rarely have soundtrack "dead space" where there isn't anything on the soundtrack at all.  Older films, the older they are, will have much more footage where there is little or no audio at all.

Jeff

[flintstone mop]

Interesting replies,
I had the chance to "align" or focus the optical head on the two projectors in the theater I was working 'back in the 70's. What a difference! The audio was clearer and a little more high end. I don't think optical was capable of more than 10KHZ.
Now, the old black and white movies and that "Western Electric" sound had a little more audio restriction and disortion. And for the visual appearance of black and white, there were subtle shades and shadows that were better viewed in black and white than color. THat may be why some movie producers fought the color movie process for a while.

Fred

[K3ZS]

Network TV sound was carried on low quality llines separate from the video.  It wasn't  too long ago that full bandwiidth sound was carried over networks.  I think it was shortly before stereo TV broadcast sound.  Anyone remember when this happened?

[John Holotko]

Well, as  far as black and white movies go I really like the quality of the old celluloid (nitrate) film. When projected on screen it seems to have a sort of brilliance and radiance that is really  evidenct on many of the old silent films and early films from ther 20's , 30's, etc. That same type of radiance seems less noticeable on the films used later on.

I have a sneaking idea that some of that may have been due to the original negatives having peak sesitivity at only certains wavelengths whereas later films had better sensitivity balance over  the  entire range. Also I doubt if Ive ever actually seen any movie that didn't have at least one generation on non-nitrate stock.

You're probably right. I think I recall reading a similar article describing the "radiance" effect similarly. I don't think it has anything to do with the nitrate stock itself. In any event the effect comes across nice on-screen.

[w1guh]

Network TV sound was carried on low quality llines separate from the video.  It wasn't  too long ago that full bandwiidth sound was carried over networks.  I think it was shortly before stereo TV broadcast sound.  Anyone remember when this happened?

This one was perplexing.  I don't remember any fanfare or hoopla about upgraded TV sound, it just seemed to come from out of nowhere...like...all of a sudden stereo tv's were being sold.  Very unlike when stereo FM was introduced.  There was a LOT of hoopla about that.

BTW...even with the old sound an outboard amp made a big difference.

And old movie sound...I like how, when there was no sound or low level sound you could hear the AGC crank up the noise.  "Meanwhile, back at the ranch..."  Whatever happened to all those obscure cowboy movies that were always on back in the 50's?

[flintstone mop]

The TV sound from the 50's reminds me of the Space Shuttle and the high quality video, yet the sound from that piece of crap microphone thing the astronauts talk into. That is worse than telephone quality audio.
fred

[wb1aij]

When watching the old Frankenstein movies the stark contrast in the black & white film & the restricted audio added a dimension of eerieness to the movie. Remove it & the movie would not be half as scary.

I used to have a portable black & white TV, battery powered with a very small speaker that sounded very much like the old drive in movie speakers. I loved to sit on the back porch at night & watch a good old time horror movie on it.

Sometimes technical improvements are not improvements.

[wb1aij]

[  "Meanwhile, back at the ranch..."  Whatever happened to all those obscure cowboy movies that were always on back in the 50's?

Ah,yes, The Lone Ranger, Cheyenne, Maverick, Palladin, Wild Bill Hickock, Tales of the Texas Rangers, Wanted Dead or Alive, Rawhide, Wyatt Earp, Wagon Train, Bonanza, Big Valley, Gunsmoke, Rifleman, Bronco Lane,Roy Rogers, Cisco Kid,Gene Autry, just to name a few. I was a big fan of all of them. Oh, the good ol days.

[John Holotko]

And old movie sound...I like how, when there was no sound or low level sound you could hear the AGC crank up the noise.  "Meanwhile, back at the ranch..."  Whatever happened to all those obscure cowboy movies that were always on back in the 50's?

Which ones. There were so  many. Most are out on DVD these days  along with many of the old Western TV series like Gunsmoke, Bonanza, Annie Oakley, Judge  Roy Bean and lots more. Places  like

http://oldies.com

often have lots of them.  Many were filmed in Pioneertown California a famous movie ranch with outstanding scenery that  served as the staging area for many Western  movies and TV shows of that era.

[Vortex Joe - N3IBX]

Fred - You need to look for a double button carbonium microphonium! The better the mike, the less the background hiss. I think it would be perfect for that old movie "narrator" sound.

Best Regards,
                  Joe Cro N3IBX

PS: dubble button mikes require special transfomas!