RM-11305 Demonstrated on 160

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Can't resist this one.
Wall to wall SSB stations bumping butts from 1801.5 alll the way up to 1999 this evening. Didn't hear one CW or AM QSO. It's great to have the "pleasant valley" of 6 meters to get away from the noise.

[k4kyv]

Can't resist this one.
Wall to wall SSB stations bumping butts from 1801.5 alll the way up to 1999 this evening. Didn't hear one CW or AM QSO. It's great to have the "pleasant valley" of 6 meters to get away from the noise.

I called CQ on 1885 and Jim, K4VVV came back to me, using a DX-100.  At first there was a lot of slopbucket contest QRM, but it gradually went away, and Jim was perfectly readable the whole time.  We must have conversed comfortably for at least an hour.  Immediately after our QSO ended, there was a pronounced window of silence in the vicinity of the frequency.

This problem would not exist if the major sponsors of contests, ARRL and CQ magazine, would declare contest activity off limits to certain parts of the bands in order to allow non-contesters a place to carry on normal QSO's, disqualifying violators from the contest.

[W3SLK]

Don said:

This problem would not exist if the major sponsors of contests, ARRL and CQ magazine, would declare contest activity off limits to certain parts of the bands in order to allow non-contesters a place to carry on normal QSO's, disqualifying violators from the contest.

Better yet, outlaw them all together! I still don't have any perception of what a corntest serves other than to frustrate other users of the band. Maybe a 24HR corntest but to ruin the frequency(s) all week is pushing the (glass)envelope. Don, I wish I knew when you and Jim-O were on I would have help bore a hole through all that crap!

[Fred k2dx]

What remarkable comments.

As was pointed out, it's not a large band and to have it COMPLETELY occupied is a good thing, as opposed to a cw wasteland segment with maybe a few qso's and an impossible phone pile up at the other end.

It demonstrates how segregation by modes is a waste of spectrum. Try tuning across the band after the contest - which ends Sunday - and it will magically be back to normal. It would make 75 meters much more enjoyable to all if the same plan was followed, with license class the only limiting factor.

Just because YOU don't like the mode or operating event, well that's just too bad. It's not YOUR band is it? Doesn't YOUR radio have an on/off switch?

The narrow minded ME ME ME thinking just amazes me. Try considering the overall picture.

[W3SLK]

Fred said:

The narrow minded ME ME ME thinking just amazes me. Try considering the overall picture.

Fred, its not about "ME, ME, ME"! Its about a distinct minority asserting their actions on the majority.  Yes I do have an on-off switch and I used it begrudgeonly.  To address you last comment, I don't know what the overall picture IS!!! I have not heard one plausible explanation as to how corntesting best demonstrates its reason to exist. Friendly competition? No way Jose'! When I see stations clamoring about to the point you have difficulty discerning one station from another, shows me this 'aint nothin but a pissin' contest'! This isn't just 160 I'm talking about, it all other bands as well. I might be apt to concede 24 hours but these corntests shouldn't ruin it for all people all weekend.

[Fred k2dx]

The same argument can be used the contesters, eg. what purpose does high fidelity ragchewing serve? The answer is simple. Different flavors for different folks. Not everyone drives in excess of the speed limit, so what purpose does racing serve? It's entertainment. It satisfies some people's competitive instinct. So if it doesn't serve yours, do something else. This 160 meter contest, which btw is once a year, demonstrates how a fluid band plan is the best for EVERYBODY. Monday things will be back to normal. And as Don observed, nothing is to prevent a rag chewer from operating, provided his station and equipment is capable of dealing with the prevailing conditions.
When I hear complaining that sounds like "me first" it reminds me of affirmative action. Deal with it. Obviously not a good time to run a PW rig into a 50' high dipole and fire up the S-38 receiver! Try QRO, try a selectable sideband
receiver, etc.

Incidentally, during the annual 160 meter CW contests, ARRL and CQ, you will find CW in the 'normal' phone portion. Most people just deal with it. It would be nice to have your own AM or phone sub band but with a very narrow 160 meters it's impractical.  I believe that the dynamic band concept would do far more to improve 80 meters than any other hairbrained proposal. It works elsewhere. Use class of license to limit full access to anyone, not mode.

We all need to be tolerant and get along. I know from contesting that if you encounter a rag chew, it's a waste of time to try to 'fight' over a frequency. Wasted time=less points. Contesters will not fight over a spot with each other if they see it's counter productive. The smart ones move on.

Live and let live.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

This would be a valid point if AM ragchewing took over the entire band. Of course, it doesn't. I think you may be confusing comments against the style of operating (contests taking over the entire band) vice comments against contests, in any form.

The same argument can be used the contesters, eg. what purpose does high fidelity ragchewing serve? The answer is simple. Different flavors for different folks.

[W3SLK]

Fred said:

Incidentally, during the annual 160 meter CW contests, ARRL and CQ, you will find CW in the 'normal' phone portion.

Without getting into a tit-for-tat affair here but to point out the CW corntest came up about as far as 1885 and that was it.  As for this being an annual event you are correct. But then you have SS, PA QSO pharty, CQ SS etc. I don't necessarily think I'm running HI FI audio but to echo Steve's sentiments, we are not wall-to-wall on the whole band.

[Vortex Joe - N3IBX]

I attempted to get on 1885KC on Friday night but was (unfortunately) squashed by a wall of silly sidewash cornholiotesting.

I didn't try a "Is the frequency in use?" call when I knew it was. I waited for a lull in between the silly sloppy sidewash gibberish that occupied the frequency. I then attempted to call CQ and got squished like a bug. I announced I was not cornholiotesting and procceded to call CQ again "No Kids, No Lids, No Godamn corntesters", Only stations with well modulated carriers, etc.

Rather than try to break my way in and cause interference to what was already going on, I digressed and went up to 75M. Seventy-Five was like a sea of tranquility compared to the nonsense that was taking place on 160M.

OK, maybe it only happens a few times a year, but what ever happened to common courtesy. Not everyone is into cornholiotesting, just like not everyone is into long winded oldbuzzard style AM roundtables. We NEVER sit on the slopbucket DX frequencies of 1840-1848 and dominate it with AM ragchews, and the slopbucket DX crew usually never interferes with us with the possible exception of cornholiotests.

CQ Cornholiotest, CQ Cornholios, This is W@#$% grabbing his ankles and waiting for a proper suitor!

Hope I didn't offend anyone but this is just how I see it.

Best Regards,
                 Joe Cro N3IBX

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Can't resist this one.
Wall to wall SSB stations bumping butts from 1801.5 alll the way up to 1999 this evening. Didn't hear one CW or AM QSO. It's great to have the "pleasant valley" of 6 meters to get away from the noise.

Don't blame RM-11305. Blame the sponsors of these QRM marathons, your beloved ARRL and CQ Magazine. To complain about bandplans going out the window during contests when the organization that you tout endlessly on these forums sponsors such contests is the ultimate hypocrisy.

Perhaps you can lean upon your lords and masters in Newington and the contest sponsors at CQ to add a rule to the 160 meter contests requiring adherence to the IARU bandplan for this band. Contesters heard operating in violation of the bandplan should be disqualified and should receive a score multiplier of ZERO. In fact, it may not be a bad idea for the contest sponsors to leave a "contest-free" zone on each band so that those of us who prefer normal contacts to the "CB Skipland" type of operating could still enjoy them on the weekends. This could be extended to the other bands if the FCC does the right thing and grants the proposals in RM-11305.

At any rate, we can do without government-enforced, inflexible bandplans such as we now have on the other bands.

The "pleasant valley" of 6 meters...Since Sayreville is in a channel 2 area (WCBS-TV), haven't your neighbors tried to lynch you yet?

I don’t see where I was blaming or complaining about “band plans going out the window”. I was just stating an observation. “Get away from the noise” was not stated  as a complaint. I just had no interest in the 160 contest.  Don’t look to me for support of a “contest free zone”. I enjoy contests and I have a multiband rig that allows me to QSY to other ham bands when the contest doesn’t interest me.

Been on 6 meters from Sayreville since I moved here from Rahway in 1973. Most of the neighbors are either on cable or satellite. If there are still some receiving TV channels directly off the air, they are few and far between. Generally have been able to run up to 500 watts PEP. Sometime this summer, the Johnson 6N2 Thunderbolt, with a pair of 4CX250B’s, should also be up and running.

[k3zrf]

OK, maybe it only happens a few times a year, but what ever happened to common courtesy.

Common courtesy doesn't exist anymore. Seems the ruder the operator the more room they get. Sucks. When I got unto this hobby it was a 'gentleman's' room. You can dress 'em up but you can't let them on the air.

[WD8BIL]

I don’t see where I was blaming or complaining about “band plans going out the window”.

Huh ?

You picked the title for this thread Pete. "RM-11305 Demonstrated on 160 !!!"[/b]
 By implication you state this "noise" will be the norm should 11305 be approved. You Totally ignore the fact that a contest weekend is not the norm for 160. Listen any given weekday and you'll experience the reality RM-11305.

 

[W3SLK]

Hey Pete, how about explaining to me and the others that have been visiting this thread, the actual benefit/skill that is acquired in a contest. I have yet to hear a viable explanation. And, by your admission you have participated in these contests you would be the perfect candidate to enlighten us.

[WD8BIL]

HI Mikey,

Contests give a good workout in prep for communicating under severe operating conditions. Being able to exchange info with a good degree of accuracy under such conditions was deemed necessary at one time.

But now, with the set aside of "emergency net frequencies" these conditions may not be present during emergencies such as Katrina !!!

Plus, they are FUN !!

[KA1ZGC]

I don’t see where I was blaming or complaining about “band plans going out the window”.

Huh ?

You picked the title for this thread Pete. "RM-11305 Demonstrated on 160 !!!"[/b]
 By implication you state this "noise" will be the norm should 11305 be approved. You Totally ignore the fact that a contest weekend is not the norm for 160. Listen any given weekday and you'll experience the reality RM-11305.

It's the same despicable, patronizing attitude that RM-11306 and its submissors reek of. No suprise, Bud, some people need to be told by Newington what they think, feel, and fear. Just read the ARRL's reply comments on RM-11306 to see an example.

Hay, Peet: RM-11306 didn't propose any solution for this, either. Why did you elect to lash out at RM-11305 when the end result for 160 will be exactly the same under either proposal? Don't you realize how ludicrous and childish that tactic sounds?

To put it another way: Pot, kettle, black.

Why don't you stick to your ARRL forum so the 3/4 of the U.S. ham population that doesn't trust the ARRL don't have to put up with League Cheerleaders picking fights with them, m'kay?

--Thom
Keep Away One Zorched Ground Connector

[K6IC]

My $02 worth,

We all do need to share the bands.  Now,  at ebb of the solar cycle,  there are few bands open for us to share at night,  so many of us are packed in on the open band.  Have played in some contests and that can be a kick,  and a good workout for emergency operating.

I do like to rag chew as well,  and at times contesters really disrupt that,  but many contesters are on only for contests,  so they do not usually pack the band on all of the other days/nites when wo want to rag chew.  The larger contests are usually one mode or  another,  so we can switch to an alternate mode during prime contest times.

Few of are malicious in nature,  so sometimes another Ham will unintentionally cause problems for any of us,  but usually this is unintentional.

My bottom line is,  we all need to share and get along.  I,  personally,  am very happy to be a ham,  and a number of operating activities bring pleasure.  Staying flexible does help.
Hope that this is not too preachy.

73  C U on the bands,  &  Have  Fun !      DE    Vic   K6IC

[W3SLK]

Buddly said:

Plus, they are FUN !!

I'll dispute that!!!

[Pete, WA2CWA]

As Buddly said, they are fun and besides fun, contesters enjoy the competitive nature of a contest. Some of the “best” stations and antenna farms  in the amateur world are run by the advocates of contesting.
For more info on the "the truth about contesters",
go here:
http://www.ncjweb.com/n6bis.pdf

A typical multi-multi station:

[k4kyv]

The three most obnoxious contests in the course of the year are the ARRL Sweepstakes, CQWW, and Field Day (yes, Field Day!). The 160 meter SSB contests come in close behind them, as they clog up the entire band.

Don't forget the PA QSO Party.

[W3SLK]

Pete said:

As Buddly said, they are fun and besides fun, contesters enjoy the competitive nature of a contest. Some of the “best” stations and antenna farms  in the amateur world are run by the advocates of contesting.

I would 'contest' that! I don't see any fun to be had by jamming the bands with pointless drivel all for the sake of a piece of wall paper or a coffee cup.

Don said:

Don't forget the PA QSO Party.

That's PA QSO PHARTY[/i]. It really makes me ashamed of the commonwealth in which I reside.


Phil said:

If all else fails when you try to operate during a contest weekend...STRAP 'EM!

Yeah what the hell, throw another kilowatt on the fire

[WD8BIL]

Also .... some of the highest power levels are run by contesters.

I wonder why they scream about "excessive bandwidth" and then operate excessive power ??

[W2VW]

The three most obnoxious contests in the course of the year are the ARRL Sweepstakes, CQWW, and Field Day (yes, Field Day!). The 160 meter SSB contests come in close behind them, as they clog up the entire band.

Don't forget the PA QSO Party.

My vote also.

[Vortex Joe - N3IBX]

Also .... some of the highest power levels are run by contesters.

I wonder why they scream about "excessive bandwidth" and operate excessive power ??

Buddly,
         Back in my evil 160M slopbucket corntesting days, I've known some ops personally to run between 6 and 10KW output. It was alll about power to see who racked up the most "Q's". I was in it mainly for the DX work, and would get squashed running a PW 1500W output.
Regards,
           Joe N3IBX

[Ed KB1HVS]

 .........and then claim to run <100w 

[W1UX]

Saturday morning with our usual AM schedule on 1885 it was the exact same thing! Totally useless. I finally fired up on slopbucket running 1.5KW to blaze a path for a sked......... oh, the shame, the shame...........

Most of those contesters indeed are not malicious. But they are like a swarm of locusts, or a cockroach infestation, and I can't think of any way to spray the 160m band with insecticide during a contest to keep them from blindly going anywhere they wish.

The average contester has the mindfulness of an individual locust, or an individual cockroach,  which ain't sayin' much