CW Contest this weekend - More CW than voice right now...

[K1JJ]

Probably not many are aware that there is a CW contest going on. Probably the CQ Whirl wide. Tonight at 11PM the 80M band is PACKED from 3500-3600 with CW signals. 40M is active too.

I counted more CW stations on 80M than voice...

On a slow sweep of the entire band I counted 127 CW stations from 3500-3594 kc.

I counted 24 ssb and AM stations transmitting from 3750-4000 kc. 

That's over a 5:1 ratio in favor of CW tonight.  Goes to show what a corntest can do for activity, even CW. For what it's worth.

T

[WA1GFZ]

now if we only had a few spark rigs I would feel real good

[Carl WA1KPD]

Frank,
You mean like this?
the WA1KPD 160 AWA CW XXXXXMTR
http://home.comcast.net/~chnord/Jacob.avi

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Sure, a 5:1 ratio regarding number of QSO. But most likely every CW QSO was only two people, where as the phone QSOs generally had many more than two. So number of stations actually on probably still favored phone.

[K1JJ]

Sure, a 5:1 ratio regarding number of QSO. But most likely every CW QSO was only two people, where as the phone QSOs generally had many more than two. So number of stations actually on probably still favored phone.

Yes, it really depends upon how you look at the way people are participating, Steve.   

I'll bet for every active CW QSO going on there were another ten guys actively hunting/seeking out their next contest Q. This is a whirl wide corntest with Europe and S.A heard as much as USA.

If there were lots of phone guys seeking QSOs, they wud be calling CQ. I didn't hear one CQ on the phone band.  Europe was asleep. But then in favor of the phone/ssb numbers, how many guys were just sitting back not in the phone/ssb QSO listening in?  Do we count them too? We don't know the real numbers.

My ultimate point is that if it wasn't for the CW corntests, I'll bet the art of CW wud have died a number of years ago, as shown even now with the dead silence on the CW bands when there's no contest going.  In that respect, maybe the CW corntests are a good thing. 

Though, here is proof to me that even at the highest PEAK of CW activity, the total space needed was 3500-3594. Above that was dead for CW. I say open up the band for phone down to 3600 and get it over with.

T

[Art]

I continued the band analysis from the effort during the CTT proposal . . . TS-2000 continuously scanning 20, 40, 80M when MUF to Europe indicated it was appropriate to do so. Record on SSLP VCR and count CW, data, and voice QSOs. Data =< 10%, CW 20-30%, and Voice => 60%. The effort took most of my shaque equipment so took a hiatus from operating for a while . . .
This uncovered a variable  not  in the original analysis. Voice QSOs tend to be *longer* as well as participated in by more ops. . . .

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Jacque said:

Though, here is proof to me that even at the highest PEAK of CW activity, the total space needed was 3500-3594. Above that was dead for CW. I say open up the band for phone down to 3600 and get it over with.

RIGHT ON!!!

[k4kyv]

Though, here is proof to me that even at the highest PEAK of CW activity, the total space needed was 3500-3594. Above that was dead for CW. I say open up the band for phone down to 3600 and get it over with.

Why not document that as completely as possible and include this in your comments to the FeeCee regarding the ARRL Bandwidth petition?  Wasn't there another petition submitted a few months ago to eliminate mode subbands?  Also, I think Phil, k2pg may have submitted one sometime in the recent past to eliminate subbands altogether.

If this ever comes up as a NPRM, all these petitions will likely be given RM- numbers and lumped together, but the FeeCee's final proposal may bear little or no resemblance to any of the petitions.

[Glenn NY4NC]

YO YO YO  Tee man... that just dupit!

Maybe we listen at different times... I sure don't hear any "dead silence" on CW 40, 30 and 20 metros... True, I've always found 80m to be lacking in CW activity.. but certainly not the other three mentioned. When the bands are open, lots of Charlie Wiskey activity...... We don't need no stinkin corntests to keep CW alive!!!  lots of active QRP op's, builders, experimenters you are probably not aware of......

My ultimate point is that if it wasn't for the CW corntests, I'll bet the art of CW wud have died a number of years ago, as shown even now with the dead silence on the CW bands when there's no contest going.  In that respect, maybe the CW corntests are a good thing. 

[w3jn]

EVERYONE knows that if you expand the phone bands, you're anti-CW, and therefore are a proponent of abolishing CW altogether 

[K1JJ]

Glenn,

I operate CW maybe 20% of the time. I can still do 40-45wpm both RX and TX. So I like CW and want to see it continue on.

But they simply have too much space allocated to it at the exclusion of fone. 100kc of the bottom of each band is plenty of room for CW. For example, on 20M, move the fone band down to 14.100.  15M make it 21.0-21.1 exclusive CW.  Same on 40M and 80M - 100kc at the bottom.  160M is smaller, so make it 1800 - 1850 like it is pretty much now by agreement. 10M is so huge, they can get 200kc.

That's not axing too much of the CW guys now is it?

T

[Glenn NY4NC]

Tom;

You (and John) may be surprised to hear that I am in favor of phone band expansion, as I have mentioned in the past. I was disagreeing with your specific comment (included in my post)

You said;

"My ultimate point is that if it wasn't for the CW corntests, I'll bet the art of CW wud have died a number of years ago, as shown even now with the dead silence on the CW bands when there's no contest going."

I feel that is completely un-true. 80 meters may be "CW dead" but that's not the case for 40, 30 and 20 CW. Plenty of activity regardless of corntests.

John, lets not jump to contusions. 

By all means, expand the phone bands.. lets just not call CW dead before it's time. It's still very much alive! even without the "help" of corntests

[w3jn]

John, lets not jump to contusions.

Glenn - meant as a tongue-in-cheek comment.  Hence the "rolly eyes".

However peruse QRZ.com for a bit and you'll find plenty of die-hard CW ops with exactly this attitude - that any pressure for contraction of the CW-only sub bands means that the proponent wants to abolish CW completely.

May I point out that CW ops presently enjoy 100% of the spectrum - that's right, an Extra can legally operate CW in *any* portion of *any* ham band.  Yet there are vast quantities of spectrum that are SPECIFICALLY reserved for CW only that are vastly underutilized.

In no way am I proposing banning CW, or even banning CW sub bands.    But when 3700-3750 is virtually tumbleweed city, ya gotta think....

73 John

[K1JJ]

Glenn,

There's really no way to know for sure what the state of CW would be without the CW corntests. So, we can debate with only speculation in the end.

But, that said, contests give thousands of the highest profile CW operators in the whirl a reason to keep sharp and continue using it. Also, the ARRL is one of the biggest supporters of CW corntests, and is a strong proponent of CW. Would they still be gung ho on CW if it didn't help their big contest promotion/ image? Who knows. Take just those two away and I think you would have seen a decline [of what degree, who knows?] in everyday use.

80M is possibly the band that is a good leading CW indicator since it is failing before the other bands to maintain CW activity in off-contest periods. Night after night it is dead until a CW contest packs the band. This big activity warms my heart to hear and says that there is STILL political clout and a reason to keep CW going in the eyes of observers.

Another thing not mentioned about contests. What is one of the benefits of ham radio to the general pubic? It's providing emergency communications and passing messages quickly and as efficiently as possible.  If someone who had the power to influenece the future of ham radio listened to a contest with this benefit in mind, he would say that ham radio is one heck of a great infrastructutre with well trained operators.  He would hear them "practicing" on both phone and CW passing messages. 

Like I said, there's no real way to know for sure, but I feel in the case of CW contests, they have helped keep the big players that support CW still in the game. Otherwise, I doubt CW would have anywhere the generous band allocations it has now.

BTW, I sent you an email picture of a new linear amp I'm building similar to your plans.  It bounced. You may find in interesting.  What is your new email down in NC?

T


 

[Glenn NY4NC]

Yes, I guess this is all speculation..... for instance, contests keeping CW ops's "sharp". As I'm sure you're aware, the majority of CW contest exchanges are to a large extent robotic. Most op's are using auto memory keyers, auto serial number generation or better yet, computer based systems that require even less work (thinking) for the op. That type of setup/operation would not be valid in an emergency communications situation. A long rag chew is far more effective at keeping CW copy skills sharp for training to exchange emergency traffic than pushing buttons during a contest. As far as the ARRL and CW, well, I really don't want to get into that stew 

I have no problem at all with a 3500-3600 CW only segment. 100 KC's, that's plenty of room. Even the 50 kc's we have on 30 meters would be ok if we didn't have to share it with commercial stations  "braaaap braaaap braaaap" 

And John, ok on the tongue and cheek  hence my "contusion" comment  yes, I realize CW is allowed across the entire band where phone is not but to be realistic, have you ever tried to have a CW QSO where Slopbucket normally resides?... Just like on 160 where phone stations stay clear of the lower end of the band,even though it's legal for me to operate CW on 3875, I personally don't feel it would be the right thing to do. Some would call this a gentlemans agreement. Comments on QRZ.com? that's like the National Enquirer of ham radio! 

Tom, I'd love to see the photos...I'll send you an E-mail from my new North Carolina account. I haven't updated my QRZ info yet.

Glenn,

There's really no way to know for sure what the state of CW would be without the CW corntests. So, we can debate with only speculation in the end.

But, that said, contests give thousands of the highest profile CW operators in the whirl a reason to keep sharp and continue using it. Also, the ARRL is one of the biggest supporters of CW corntests, and is a strong proponent of CW. Would they still be gung ho on CW if it didn't help their big contest promotion/ image? Who knows. Take just those two away and I think you would have seen a decline [of what degree, who knows?] in everyday use.

80M is possibly the band that is a good leading CW indicator since it is failing before the other bands to maintain CW activity in off-contest periods. Night after night it is dead until a CW contest packs the band. This big activity warms my heart to hear and says that there is STILL political clout and a reason to keep CW going in the eyes of observers.

Another thing not mentioned about contests. What is one of the benefits of ham radio to the general pubic? It's providing emergency communications and passing messages quickly and as efficiently as possible.  If someone who had the power to influenece the future of ham radio listened to a contest with this benefit in mind, he would say that ham radio is one heck of a great infrastructutre with well trained operators.  He would hear them "practicing" on both phone and CW passing messages. 

Like I said, there's no real way to know for sure, but I feel in the case of CW contests, they have helped keep the big players that support CW still in the game. Otherwise, I doubt CW would have anywhere the generous band allocations it has now.

BTW, I sent you an email picture of a new linear amp I'm building similar to your plans.  It bounced. You may find in interesting.  What is your new email down in NC?

T


 

[w3jn]

Glenn, I gotta confess I haven't had a CW contact in probably 25 years, so I can't speak to trying to have a CW QSO in the phone bands.  Apparently there are fellows who do so, as witnessed by the CW on 3825 and inside the 75 M AM window at times.

Perhaps QRZ.com may be the "national enquirer" of ham radio, but it is representative of certain opinions within the ham community - no matter how misguided and parochial they may be.

My point on CW allocations is meant to point out that CW can be operated ANYWHERE where the op has privileges, AND has almost 50% of HF ham bands EXCLUSIVELY devoted to CW and/or digital modes, while at the same time phone activity is INCREASING.  In other words, the mode that really needs some space to spread out is sorely disadvantaged at the expense of the relatively generous CW set-asides.

73 John

[Paul, K2ORC]

Slight digression, but if code is eliminated as a licensing requirement, should W1AW continue to broadcast code runs?  I realize some W1AW CW broadcasts target those who want to get a certificate from the ARRL demonstrating proficiency at various speeds. 

But one of the main reasons as I've always understood it for the CW broadcasts is to provide practice to people prepping for the code test.  Without a code requirement, seems like the CW broadcasts would be a sales tool for ARRL certificates.  But maybe I'm wrong.

[K1JJ]

Slight digression, but if code is eliminated as a licensing requirement, should W1AW continue to broadcast code runs?  I realize some W1AW CW broadcasts target those who want to get a certificate from the ARRL demonstrating proficiency at various speeds. 

But one of the main reasons as I've always understood it for the CW broadcasts is to provide practice to people prepping for the code test.  Without a code requirement, seems like the CW broadcasts would be a sales tool for ARRL certificates.  But maybe I'm wrong.

Hmmm... good points, Paul. Never thought of that future possibility.

Well, I say that the CW practice shud stay even tho it's not on the test. Using my warped logic, it's like, well, they don't have W1AW voice Engrish practice sessions, but we still have it as a requirement to pass the test....   So why not CW practice too?  [They don't have Spanish speaking FCC tests now, do they?]

My bet is that CW practice continues to run a few years after the requirments end and then they will do polls to decide if they shud drop it. Because of the ARRL love of CW, I'd bet it stays forever unless they run into $$ operating budget problems.

Personally, I think the FASTEST way to get CW proficient is to get on the air and sweat it out in a real QSO. That works...  The CW practice is too candy coated with no pressure.

T

[Paul, K2ORC]

Yeah, you're probably right Tom.   It's like "total immersion" language instruction.  When I was visiting my parents in Germany in the 60s, I'd stick a German-English dictionary and a map in my back pocket, grab a streetcar and head into the middle of the city where they lived.  When you have to use the language to get directions, find a place to eat or just find a bathroom, you learn fast. 
 
I also guess they'll keep the code broadcasts going for the forseeable future.  Aside from everything else, those listening to code runs need the latest issue of QST to check copy, so it's a win/win deal for the ARRL. 

[Ed W1XAW]

80M is possibly the band that is a good leading CW indicator since it is failing before the other bands to maintain CW activity in off-contest periods. Night after night it is dead until a CW contest packs the band. This big activity warms my heart to hear and says that there is STILL political clout and a reason to keep CW going in the eyes of observers.



 

Hi Tom:  80 M has been a mainstay of my hamming since my teens and while I'll admit the activity is off it's by no means dead.  You can usually scare up a Q or two so long as you don't wait too long as the 80M crowd tends to be old and off to bed earlier than the phone crowd.  By the way 45 WPM is waaay to fast for me (and most people these days).  A blind ham I know is bit faster than that and there is no question that true high speed ops are becoming rare.   I've been up in the novice section the last couple of nights and I won't call it crowded but there is plenty of activity spread across the spectrum and out of interest I checked below and heard spaced activity most of the way down to the cw area.  I've found that even with the lower use of the spectrum the vast majority of q's are new log entries so there are a whole bunch of folks that are on cw.  I run the Cheyenne on 80 M in the summer at camp when the sun goes down and the pw phone signal doesn't cut it on 75, the Ranger Courier combo when I have time to warm it up and a TS830 from time to time.  Keys are Skillman Speedmaster, Vibroplex Standard (well sort of standard, I don't have the weights so I use a metal cable tie) and a very poorly tamed blue racer.  I also have a J-37 and J-38.  With my antenna situation (bent up inverted v on a city lot) and relatively low power (Valiant) its easier mess around on CW than phone at night when a bunch of big gun stations are running break-in with SSB running interference.  I guess it would be fair to open up the phone band a bit but you won't see me leading the charge. 

73 de W1XAW

[K1JJ]

Hi Ed,

I didn't know there was still a Novice band with Novice CW action going on!  I guess it's just that they're not issuing new ones.

I used to get in there and give em a thrill.  I remember back in my Novice days when a General class showed up everybody wanted to talk with him... 

If I remember, the new novice band is 3675-3725 now?  I just tuned in and hear a few slow guys on 3677, that's about it. Sound like novices maybe...

Other than that, we should get a bunch of us together some night and get down on CW again. A few years back we did and it was a scream. Hearing the various AMer calls on CW was very strange.

T