Camaro reborn: 700-horsepower

[W1RKW]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/funonwheels/11/09/motion_camaro/index.html

Hefty price tag

[W3SLK]

There is a local guy just over the hill from me, Joe Scott, who used to tear up the IHRA circuit with a pro-stock '69 Camaro back in the '70's. He sat at the top of the pile for a long time. Last year I got called to a fire out at his place. It seems his garage went up in flames. Along with it a $500,000 power plant for his latest endeavor. Rumor has it that the fire had a little help from Joe, but the investigation proved inconclusive.

[Bill, KD0HG]

My brother once owned a 69 Chevelle that he dropped a blueprinted, set up 427 into .

From a 10 MPH roll in 1st gear he could stomp on it and the front end would come off the ground, headlights up in the trees.

Those 700 pony Camaros would really be something, but I think it's more fun to drive a sleeper that doesn't look fast at all. And less attention from the gendarmes as well.

[K1JJ]

My brother once owned a 69 Chevelle that he dropped a blueprinted, set up 427 into .
From a 10 MPH roll in 1st gear he could stomp on it and the front end would come off the ground, headlights up in the trees.

Yep, those kinds of cars turn me on much more than the new ricebox cars.

Back between 1966-68 a drag racing friend dropped a built 427 into a maroon 65' Chevy II [SS I think]. Remember those? Except for the headers hanging down and large rear tires, it looked basically stock. 4.88 gears.  The license plate was "ROUT". When I first met him I axed him what "rout" meant. He told me to look it up in the dictionary...

Then in Sept 1968 I had the chance to buy it for $1800. I didn't quite have that much money, but test drove it anyway.  I then owned a '64 GTO, so had a feel for muscle cars. This car was so hairy, scary and obnoxious I was afraid to give it the full gas. When you stepped on it it was like an out of control rocket. At least that was my feeling compared to my pig GTO...  The loud whine from that 4 speed transmission and the ticking from the headers, the motor racing and outrageous cam at idle made driving it an adventure.  I went back to my GTO feeling inadequate.                                                                                                                                                                             
Driving that car has always been my benchmark comparison to muscle cars.

T

[W1RKW]

When I was a JN in my mid teen's (just got my drivers license back in '76) my cousin had a 68 SS Camaro with the 427.  He loaned it to me for a day.  He said as long as you can keep the tank full when I get it back you can drive all day if you want.  I filled it up and took my buddy out in it.  My buddy tells me to punch it when the traffic light changes.  I said to him, I don't know I might wreck the car.  He goes no way just do it.  So succombing to peer pressure I got on in it first gear. Never made it to 2nd gear.  In a matter of 2 seconds I did a 360 in the middle of the intersection with smoke all over the place.  My first experience with posi.  My buddy is in the passenger seat laughing his ass off.  Something told me he knew what was going to happen.  The joy ride lasted about 2 hours.  Went through a tank of gas in no time as it got about 4 mpg.

I bought the car for $400.00.  I had it about 2 months when the energy crisis hit.  I sold it for $400 and now I'm kicking myself for what I see what they are going for these days.

[WA1GFZ]

AH a buddy and I built an L88 form a basket case drag car 66 chevelle.
Included was this new cam marked ZL1 experimental. We stood it up against the 2
L88 cams then decided to go for it. .6 lift on the exhaust.  It also had 4:88 and 90/10 shocks up front. It ran 10.8 before we got the car. 12.5 to 1 and a holly 3 barrel. The only way we could connect it to the ground was when 11 inch M&Hs were mounted. at 60 miles per hour on the highway the noise and vibration wore you out. You had to hang on to the shifter for dear life going through the quarter.
no problem popping the wheels off the ground in all four gears. Driving my built 389 65 Tempest was like jumpimg into a VW after a while behind the wheel of that rocket. It took a custom built 409 starter to get that beast turning. The first time we started it there was a back fire that blew the hair off my eye brows. Didn't idle well below 1600 RPM...if you call it an idle.

[W1QWT]

Driving my built 389 65 Tempest was like jumpimg into a VW after a while behind the wheel of that rocket.

I had a summer job parking cars at Boston University in 1967. There was a guy who used to come into the lot with a VW that he put a 283 into. It was a weird looking contraption! He actually sat in the back seat. He never lit it up for me but rumor had it that it was quite the ride!
I had a friend who built a hot 57 Chevy. I don't remember what the engine was but I do remember the two four barrels and the 3/4 race cam. It had  a Hurst shifter but I don't remember what else. He let me borrow it one day to run across town to pick up my girl friend and I tromped it after I pulled out of the gas station we used to hang around at. If I remember correctly I pissed my pants!

What really impresses me is how much horsepower is produced by modern engines compared to the 1969-1970 muscle car era.
My slightly modified 2002 Mustang was dyno'd at 307 HP but it is only a 4.6 liter engine which is about 281 CU.
In 1969 a 4 barrel 351 CU was 290 HP*
In 1969 a 4 barrel 390 CU was 320 HP*
In 1969 a Boss 429 with a 4 barrel was 375 HP*
In 1970 a Boss 428 with a 4 barrel was 335 HP.*

I have a book on how to "soup up" the 4.6 liter modular engine and according to it this little block can make 1500 HP with all the mods. You even have to change the pistons for this level cause the stock pistons can't hack it. They say they are some sort of composit material.
From what I read the little 4 bangers on the strip are getting more HP the the 60's & 70's muscle cars but ya know what? They just don't sound right! Sorta like a chainsaw on steriods!
Love the rumble of a V8 and the sound of a Harley. Speakin of bikes I rode a 57 Triumph way back along time ago.

*From the internet

Regards
Q
PS
Speakin of olden daze I am going to see Arlo Guthrie next week.

[W4LTM]

I agree about the new engines having more HP the the Muscle Cars of the late 60's -  The new Cadilac, SSR, Lightning, 2005 Mustang, etc...  I have my 68 Camaro with 428 HP (nothing to sneeze at), but these new cars do it with production motors and running on low octane fuel.

Oh well, I guess I still have the sweet body lines...   Sigh...

I remember staging at a stop light against a Selene Mustang and got the jump and pulled on it....  Those days are just a memory compared to the new stuff coming out these days.  A buddy has the new GTO - Scary fast!!

Here is my car if you have not seen it before:

http://www.trainingitc.com/art/newcamarophoto.jpg

Just wait until I put the 6 Deuce intake on it!!!  Can you say Hot Wheels?  Actually my center caps on my Torque Thrust Twos have the Hot Wheels Emblem...

Yall have a good night.

Matt
W4LTM

[Bill, KD0HG]

I have a book on how to "soup up" the 4.6 liter modular engine and according to it this little block can make 1500 HP with all the mods. You even have to change the pistons for this level cause the stock pistons can't hack it. They say they are some sort of composit material.

They've lately been making rods and some other internal engine parts from what folks call "powdered metal". It's some sort of highly comppressed metal rather than a forging. After the piece is formed, they crack the cap off the crankshaft end so the cap perfectly matches its rod without the need for an additional machining step. The material is plenty strong and light for stock use but tends to catastrophically fail when pushed too much in modified engines. So you're right, there's still big business in aftermarket forged parts.

Living at a high altitude, I've gotten very appreciative of turbocharged engines of late and they've gotten much more common than they used to be. I see that tricks like nitrous oxide injection are also more popular than before. The ability to dink around with almost every engine parameter with the use of programmers is something that I'm enjoying...Instead of changing jets in a carb, a few keystrokes can do it.

[WA1GFZ]

these rice rockets will make the power but for how long. You take a horse and feed it coke it will really run till it drops dead. You take a good motor with forged bottom end and forged pistons then carefully balance and it will spin like a singer sewing machine. My 400 '78 firebird had a balance job and it has no vibration through the range. The only limit on a good motor is its ability to move air. These new motors with fuel injection get better dynamic range than the oln holley that needed a jet change when the wx changed. Port injection helps a lot. I'm sure head design has come a long way since a drill with a stone port jobs done in the basement. done a few myself.
Goat roper in my neighborhod flew by yesterday and after beating his baby fart muffler special all summer and it is belching oil quite well now.

[Paul, K2ORC]

I feel so-o-o-o pissweak. [/glow]

[W1FRM]

I love it that so many AM'rs are also avid "MotorHeads".  I started by
first souping up my Motor Bike (whizzer) when I was 13.  Continued
on with not much money but great interest till I had a 59 Vette in 74
that I put a 327 small-block, bored 60 over, fuelie heads, big cam etc
with 4 speed and 4.88 gears.  It would runin low 12's and was driven
on the street (about 6 mpg).  My EX made me sell it cuz she couldn't
drive it with the stiff clutch.

Anyway, at 62 years young, I still have the bug.  Recently sold my
Harley and then the 94 Vette  and I'm itching for something to
replace them ...........

[WA1GFZ]

I never heard of fuelie heads on a rat motor. Real fuelie heads were used on the small block with double tits. Rat motor was round port or square port then later open chanber. But then I was a poncho guy

[W1RKW]

I used to be a GM guy. Got tired of stupid things breaking. Switch to Japanese in the early 90's.  Bought a Honda Prelude.  Ran it into the ground after putting 310,000 on it. Regular maintenance (oil changes, filters, brakes, belts, etc.) and a pair of axles were the only things I ever did to it.  It would have kept on going if it weren't for the serious structural rust problem it had. Essentially the frame and floor were toast.  The thing was unsafe pretty much when I had it hauled away.  Engine was still strong and didn't burn oil.  It drove nice and handled well and peppy for a 4 banger right up until its last day.  Liked it so much a bought another one, Hondas last year to make the Prelude (2001).  I couldn't believe the differences and changes in 10 years.  The engine was the same size but nearly twice the HP.  A 1.8L engine putting out 205 HP stock. And handling like no other car I've ever driven.  Getting up to 135mph is easy. Haven't made top speed yet, ain't got the nerve.  I hope to put 300,000 miles on this one too assuming I keep things tame over the next 20 years. I do about 5000miles a year in it.

[WA1GFZ]

long day, sorry Guy you did say 327 brain thought 4.
Yup that baby would really spin with big boob heads.

[W1FRM]

I never heard of fuelie heads on a rat motor. Real fuelie heads were used on the small block with double tits. Rat motor was round port or square port then later open chanber. But then I was a poncho guy

The 327 IS a small block.  First introduced in 62 as the next step up from
the 283.  The  Chevy "RAT" Motors (or Big Block) were made in 396,
427, and 454 displacements.

DE Guy W1FRM

[W2VW]

I never heard of fuelie heads on a rat motor. Real fuelie heads were used on the small block with double tits. Rat motor was round port or square port then later open chanber. But then I was a poncho guy

The 327 IS a small block.  First introduced in 62 as the next step up from
the 283.  The  Chevy "RAT" Motors (or Big Block) were made in 396,
427, and 454 displacements.

DE Guy W1FRM

Don't forget 366 and 402 

[K1JJ]

She's leal fine, my 409!

[Just don't use it on meter faces]

 

T

[Bill, KD0HG]

I used to be a GM guy. Got tired of stupid things breaking. Switch to Japanese in the early 90's.  Bought a Honda Prelude.  Ran it into the ground after putting 310,000 on it. Regular maintenance (oil changes, filters, brakes, belts, etc.) and a pair of axles were the only things I ever did to it.  It would have kept on going if it weren't for the serious structural rust problem it had. Essentially the frame and floor were toast.  The thing was unsafe pretty much when I had it hauled away.  Engine was still strong and didn't burn oil.  It drove nice and handled well and peppy for a 4 banger right up until its last day.  Liked it so much a bought another one, Hondas last year to make the Prelude (2001).  I couldn't believe the differences and changes in 10 years.  The engine was the same size but nearly twice the HP.  A 1.8L engine putting out 205 HP stock. And handling like no other car I've ever driven.  Getting up to 135mph is easy. Haven't made top speed yet, ain't got the nerve.  I hope to put 300,000 miles on this one too assuming I keep things tame over the next 20 years. I do about 5000miles a year in it.

*All* cars are much more reliable than they used to be. American makes like Fords have 100,000 mile tune up intervals. Lubricants and filters are greatly improved these days.
I expect to get a quarter-mil out of my current 2000 pickup truck before I decide to replace it.

The thing is, who wants to keep a vehicle that long? The interior and body are going to look like trash before the drivetrain dies. Seats and carpeting wear out, and things get more efficient every decade. I bought a 1987 pickup new; I sold it 12 years later, not because it was "worn out" but because the new vehicles were so much better in every respect.

[W1RKW]

That's the funny thing.   I bought the Prelude and over the time I owned it the under body rusted out something fierce yet I had no idea until someone pointed it out to me that the frame work was essentially gone.  At that point I had about 280,000mi on it yet the outer body (the stuff that was visible) looked fine. The interior was in pretty good shape too.  I had the car for 10 years and never complained about it at all yet all the GM's I had from the day I got my license were nothing but a PITA.  Granted most of them were used and came  with their share of problems but I had a couple that were new as well and the problems cropped up within 50Kmiles.  I said no more and made the switch.

[K1JJ]

Yep, cars are more reliable these days. Guess they've gotten the bugs worked out and quality control is up.

Just take a look at all the broken down cars on the side of the highway....   When is the last time you remember seeing one?  Years ago it was real common to see crapped out cars. Not anymore.

It also has to do with the economy. I see mostly new cars on the road today. Few junks. When the recession comes again, then they keep em longer and the breakdowns get more common.

I still drive the same 1987 Blazer I bought new for cash. No payments for 18 years. Still runs kinda FB. Other than antique cars, I'm usually driving the oldest car on the road lately...     I must admit even  PT Cruisers are starting to look good lately.  Maybe next year.


T

[WA1GFZ]

Tom you need a Honda Element with a big dog log sitting on top

That would really attract the women

[W2PFY]

I know this is an ebay item but it is a 1930 cady. Great looking car. It has a flat head V8.

I wonder when the first V8 was manufactured?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4588116877&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR3_PCN_BIX

[WA1GFZ]

A very cool caddy the XLR. I saw one a few weeks ago after pulling a bearing lock on a fox then saw the car.