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Author Topic: Two more moons discovered orbiting Pluto  (Read 5239 times)
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k4kyv
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Don
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« on: November 01, 2005, 03:02:00 PM »

A team of astronomers at Southwest Research Institute and other institutions has discovered that Pluto has two previously unseen moons. Ground-based observers discovered Pluto's only previously known moon, Charon, in 1978.

http://www.astrobio.net/news/article1760.html
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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Bill, KD0HG
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« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2005, 09:52:36 PM »

It's a darn shame that it was decided to let the Hubble die in maybe two more years.. It's contributed more to pure science than anything else that I can think of. Unfortunately, it can't be serviced by anything but a space shuttle which was the intent all along. Eight years to build the most powerful and complex scientific instrument ever devised...I don't think it'll be replaced or surpassed during our lifetimes.
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KB2WIG
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2005, 09:51:01 AM »

I sometimes wonder if these "anouncements" of a programs demise is a veiled attempt to get more money infused into the budget.......  klc
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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2005, 10:39:34 AM »

Obviously, there's only so much money available, but what I find appalling is we went from an era where we *could* dream of putting people on the moon, building a reuseable space plane and putting the most powerful scientific instrument ever built into earth orbit, designed to be serviced by future astronauts on space missions...And we DID it.  Sure it was dangerous and expensive, but inspiring to everyone on this planet of ours.

Now, we've turned inward. It's "too expensive", it's "too dangerous", or "there's no easy fix", or "we don't understand it".

What happened to us?

President Kennedy set a goal of putting men on the moon in 10 years and we did it. It wasn't too expensive or too dangerous.

What happened?

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Bill, KD0HG
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2005, 12:49:25 PM »

Well, that's the thing, Mark. There's got to be more to it than that. When Kennedy announced that we were going to the moon in 10 years, we did it...And that was in spite of a congress and presidents placing an equally, or higher priority on the social programs of the era. There's more to it than that, and that's what I'm trying to get a handle on here. Perhaps a national will is the key thing here, as you say. Maybe we're lacking vision and contemporary leadership. I don't know.

I don't think there was an American of any political stripe or opinion that wasn't glued to the TV the evening that Neil Armstrong stepped out onto the moon. And I don't think there was anyone of any political stripe that wasn't in awe of what American science and balls were able to accomplish. It was a tremendously uniting thing (even if just for a while) during an era of diviceiveness over Viet Nam, racial issues and what not. We accomplished something that was a dream since the dawning of human history. Walking on the moon.

Those heady days inspired a great many into careers in science, engineering, physics, and even into the armed forces where one could hope to become an astronaut.

WHY can't we do that again? Something that everyone could agree was a tremendoulsy elevating national goal? Why can't we even fix one lousy telescope that's provided us knowledge and vision of things that we never knew existed? And we're only scratching the surface. Aren't people driven by curiosity any more?
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Bill, KD0HG
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« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2005, 02:00:29 PM »


Our initiative to go to the moon was not curiosity;  it was fear.    And because of that fear, we were able to satisfy our curiosity.   In other words, there was curiosity,  but the vehicle that enabled us to satisfy it was fear of the Russians in space.



Interesting thoughts Mark, I highlighted the above because it's a concept that I never bought into or was concerned about myself at the time..So it's off my personal radar if that was indeed a prime motivating force for the moon landing. At the time I just thought it was an amazing gutsy human scientific and engineering achievement, no more, no less.

Although I do note that people did get panicked when Sputnik beat us into space exploration, and perhaps rightly so, I never really thought the use of the moon for military purposes was very realistic. And it still isn't.

Your comments about kinds and computers is IMO spot on, but I would hope that the better ones would still be driven by the human spirit and reality, not a virtual and meaningless world created  inside a computer.

Having said all of this, the exploration of the moon was a defining moment in American history, one that even today almost everyone can agree on.

What do you do for an encore? ;-)


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W1RKW
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« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2005, 03:06:16 PM »

Eight years to build the most powerful and complex scientific instrument ever devised...I don't think it'll be replaced or surpassed during our lifetimes.


A Hubble replacement is in the works. 
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Bill, KD0HG
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« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2005, 09:22:52 PM »

Mark, I thought about your comments for some time and I need to say that my opinion differs...I think we chose to walk on the moon because it was a great adventure, not because of fear of the Russians or anything else. (as opposed to the earlier Sputnik days)

We went to the moon because of a president that inspired and motivated a great many people. I was there and I won't ever forget those heady days.

Below, I'm going to add some excerpts of JFK's 1962 speech in which he set landing on the moon as a national goal. Yes, national security and concern about space weaponry were mentioned, but only in a peripherial manner and by no means did JFK pander to or use fear as a prime motivator. Kennedy even mentions his decision would aid the development of computers for the advancement of human endeavor.
-In 1962, no less.

Re-reading the speech makes it perfectly clear why we went to the moon.

And what I'm saying is that we need to renew that sense of purpose and adventure again, the payoff including  a more united United States. All of us.


-Bill

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Rice University, Houston TX, 1962

"President Pitzer, Mr. Vice President, Governor, Congressman Thomas, Senator Wiley, and Congressman Miller, Mr. Webb, Mr. Bell, scientists, distinguished guests, and ladies and gentlemen:

I appreciate your president having made me an honorary visiting professor, and I will assure you that my first lecture will be very brief.

We meet at a college noted for knowledge, in a city noted for progress, in a state noted for strength, and we stand in need of all three, for we meet in an hour of change and challenge, in a decade of hope and fear, in an age of both knowledge and ignorance. The greater our knowledge increases, the greater our ignorance unfolds.

Despite the striking fact that most of the scientists that the world has ever known are alive and working today, despite the fact that this Nation's own scientific manpower is doubling every 12 years in a rate of growth more than three times that of our population as a whole, despite that, the vast stretches of the unknown and the unanswered and the unfinished still far outstrip our collective comprehension.

If this capsule history of our progress teaches us anything, it is that man, in his quest for knowledge and progress, is determined and cannot be deterred. The exploration of space will go ahead, whether we join in it or not, and it is one of the great adventures of all time, and no nation which expects to be the leader of other nations can expect to stay behind in this race for space.

Yet the vows of this Nation can only be fulfilled if we in this Nation are first, and, therefore, we intend to be first. In short, our leadership in science and industry, our hopes for peace and security, our obligations to ourselves as well as others, all require us to make this effort, to solve these mysteries, to solve them for the good of all men, and to become the world's leading space-faring nation.

We set sail on this new sea because there is new knowledge to be gained, and new rights to be won, and they must be won and used for the progress of all people. For space science, like nuclear science and all technology, has no conscience of its own. Whether it will become a force for good or ill depends on man, and only if the United States occupies a position of pre-eminence can we help decide whether this new ocean will be a sea of peace or a new terrifying theater of war. I do not say that we should or will go unprotected against the hostile misuse of space any more than we go unprotected against the hostile use of land or sea, but I do say that space can be explored and mastered without feeding the fires of war, without repeating the mistakes that man has made in extending his writ around this globe of ours.

We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.

It is for these reasons that I regard the decision last year to shift our efforts in space from low to high gear as among the most important decisions that will be made during my incumbency in the office of the Presidency.

In the last 24 hours we have seen facilities now being created for the greatest and most complex exploration in man's history. We have felt the ground shake and the air shattered by the testing of a Saturn C-1 booster rocket, many times as powerful as the Atlas which launched John Glenn, generating power equivalent to 10,000 automobiles with their accelerators on the floor. We have seen the site where five F-1 rocket engines, each one as powerful as all eight engines of the Saturn combined, will be clustered together to make the advanced Saturn missile, assembled in a new building to be built at Cape Canaveral as tall as a 48 story structure, as wide as a city block, and as long as two lengths of this field.

Within these last 19 months at least 45 satellites have circled the earth. Some 40 of them were made in the United States of America and they were far more sophisticated and supplied far more knowledge to the people of the world than those of the Soviet Union.

We have had our failures, but so have others, even if they do not admit them. And they may be less public.

To be sure, we are behind, and will be behind for some time in manned flight. But we do not intend to stay behind, and in this decade, we shall make up and move ahead.

The growth of our science and education will be enriched by new knowledge of our universe and environment, by new techniques of learning and mapping and observation, by new tools and computers for industry, medicine, the home as well as the school. Technical institutions, such as Rice, will reap the harvest of these gains.

And finally, the space effort itself, while still in its infancy, has already created a great number of new companies, and tens of thousands of new jobs. Space and related industries are generating new demands in investment and skilled personnel, and this city and this state, and this region, will share greatly in this growth. What was once the furthest outpost on the old frontier of the West will be the furthest outpost on the new frontier of science and space. Houston, your city of Houston, with its Manned Spacecraft Center, will become the heart of a large scientific and engineering community. During the next 5 years the National Aeronautics and Space Administration expects to double the number of scientists and engineers in this area, to increase its outlays for salaries and expenses to $60 million a year; to invest some $200 million in plant and laboratory facilities; and to direct or contract for new space efforts over $1 billion from this center in this city.

To be sure, all this costs us all a good deal of money. This year's space budget is three times what it was in January 1961, and it is greater than the space budget of the previous eight years combined. That budget now stands at $5,400 million a year--a staggering sum, though somewhat less than we pay for cigarettes and cigars every year. Space expenditures will soon rise some more, from 40 cents per person per week to more than 50 cents a week for every man, woman and child in the United States, for we have given this program a high national priority--even though I realize that this is in some measure an act of faith and vision, for we do not now know what benefits await us. But if I were to say, my fellow citizens, that we shall send to the moon, 240,000 miles away from the control station in Houston, a giant rocket more than 300 feet tall, the length of this football field, made of new metal alloys, some of which have not yet been invented, capable of standing heat and stresses several times more than have ever been experienced, fitted together with a precision better than the finest watch, carrying all the equipment needed for propulsion, guidance, control, communications, food and survival, on an untried mission, to an unknown celestial body, and then return it safely to earth, re-entering the atmosphere at speeds of over 25,000 miles per hour, causing heat about half that of the temperature of the sun--almost as hot as it is here today--(laughter) and do all this, and do it right, and do it first before this decade is out--then we must be bold.

Space is there, and we're going to climb it, and the moon and the planets are there, and new hopes for knowledge and peace are there. And, therefore, as we set sail we ask God's blessing on the most hazardous and dangerous and greatest adventure on which man has ever embarked.

Thank you.

John F. Kennedy - September 12, 1962
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Bill, KD0HG
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« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2005, 10:14:09 AM »

Mark, if you ever get a chance, take the family to the Neil Armstrong museum in his home town of Waupakineta (I know the spelling is wrong) Ohio. They've done a fantastic job on the place and it's exhibits. They've got one of the early space capsules there on display, to which my reaction was, "There's NO way I'd get into that two-person phone booth and have it flung into space.." Or something like that. ;-)
 There's plenty of boatanchor space equipment there on display from Armstrong's space suit to the 35 mm cameras they used on the moon, 'primitive' electronics and computers and there's samples of moon rocks on display as well. There's a flight simulator booth there where you can try to land a virtual shuttle..I know that you're a pilot too and landing the thing dead-stick with no chance of a go around was quite the challenge and a lot of fun.

We swung by there a few years ago on a road trip to SE Ohio to visit where the XYL's Scotch-Irish pioneer family is from, and I 'm glad we spent an afternoon there.

-Bill
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