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Author Topic: Question about High Voltage Safety  (Read 17407 times)
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W3SLK
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« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2007, 07:07:49 PM »

That's what I have on mine Rich. I still haven't gotten around to changing it to a 3-prong plug. Maybe after I change out the brute force cap to a tuned circuit. Wink
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Mike(y)/W3SLK
Invisible airwaves crackle with life, bright antenna bristle with the energy. Emotional feedback, on timeless wavelength, bearing a gift beyond lights, almost free.... Spirit of Radio/Rush
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« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2007, 08:12:28 AM »

Hi All - this has turned into a good PWM discussion !   Lots of good comments.

I'll relate some of my experience with high power tube PWM transmittes.  First, you can put the modulator anywhere - in the next room if you want.  However, as Frank has pointed out, there are a few critical leads which must be kept short.

1) The damper diode is connected directly to the plate of the modulator tube at one end.  The other end must go directly to a capacitor to the local ground of the modulator. You need to also provide a good, low impedance local capacitor between the high voltage and the ground of the modulator, at the modulator.  This local capacitor and the local ground (chassis) of the modulator are the high current points involved in the modulator and damper diode.  You will generate serious ringing without these.

2) You *must* make a provision for analog compensation, or you will have distortion at high negative peaks.  This means you need to provide analog control of your modulator tube.  Either you need to vary the amplitude of the input pulse train with modulation (the drive follows the modulation - higher drive for higher modulator output), and/or vary the screen voltage of the modulator tube.   I have found varying the drive is very important and effective.  The only alternative available is to provide an active pull down (up, in this case) to actively discharge the filter network.  Doing so will compromise the modulator efficiency, but the method does work.  The broadcasters all used analog compensation, and so did I in my rig.  The other problem you will solve with analog compensation is the fact that a tube is an imperfect switch and will exhibit an increasing voltage drop as more current is drawn through the tube.  The analog compensation will linearize the tube at high currents, and will also allow you to achieve 100% negative modulation with much lower distortion.  There is extensive documentation about this on my web site in the "Vacuum Tube PWM Article".

3) Important:  Beware of coupling around the filter - through the ground.  I have found it important to isolate either the RF amplifier ground (impractical in this case) or the power supply / PWM filter ground.  You might think everything is "grounded", and your large rack and all that aluminum will surely never allow any ground currents, but you very likely will have some, and this will reduce the effectiveness of your filter.  In my PWM rig, I actually DC isolated the modulator and PWM filter ground plane (and it was a plane). 

One suggestion is this:  The power supply ground connectes to the modulator (isolated) and PWM filter (isolated) ground point.  This is where everything related to the modulator joins:  The bypass for the damper, the modulator local bypass capacitor and the first PWM filter capacitor.  Then you go through the filter.  Since the filter is large, there should be a ground plane provided for the filter (isolated).  The last capacitor in the filter is located physically inside of the RF amplifier cabinet, and is usually the RF bypass as well.  A ground strap is run from the RF amplifier chassis (which is presumably the actual cabinet/rack ground as well), to the filter ground plane.  The high voltage, of course, runs from the filter output as well.  In doing this, you will reduce considerably the chances of coupling around the filter.

When running high power, an 80dB down spur from your pulse width modulator will be very apparent.

A series resonator at the output of the filter (preferably located very near to the RF amplifier and grounded to it) can be of help, although your 6 element filter should be sufficient.  I have not needed to provide any other circuitry when using a 6 element filter with the corner at 12.5kHz and a 100kHz switching frequency.  The PWM spurs are unmeasurable by other operators who are a short distance from my residence.

Anyway, just a few random thoughts !!! Wink

Regards,

Steve
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W3RSW
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Rick & "Roosevelt"


« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2007, 08:24:39 AM »

If HV mistakes and excapades weren't so serious they could be funny.
Can just see it....

Don said, " when I touched the transmitter to adjust tuning, I had the full 1kv from arm to arm.  Couldn't release it.  The only way I was able to break away was to break the the mic cord loose from the connector. "

How did you break the 'mike' cord?  with your teeth?

That was my first "visual" and you gotta admit, it's would make an excellent safety cartoon.  Shocked
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RICK  *W3RSW*
N3DRB The Derb
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« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2007, 10:54:05 AM »

stories like Don's are why I'm spending so much time on my ground system. There will not be a single piece of gear powered by ac in my shack not  connected solidly to the same ground system and going back to the service entrance. I'm torch silver soldering all the split nuts, and acorn nut joints today and pounding down another 2 rods. The one for the service entrance sux. No bonded copper, just galvanized. I dont trust it.

My HB rig had full B+ on the tank coil, plate caps in the open, etc.

I read once some guy in the late 20's swore he would never build a rig with a metal chassis. All his rigs were made with wood.

 
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2007, 11:39:09 AM »


How did you break the 'mike' cord?  with your teeth?

It just happened when I fell backwards.  The only thing that saved me was the crappy mic plug, and the fact that I probably hadn't fully tightened the set screw.  It was one of those old style single wire shielded hi-Z mic connectors that holds in place with a screw ring and uses a piece of bakelite with a blob of solder in the middle to make electrical contact for the audio line.  The mic cord pulled out of the connector and the wire broke loose internally from the blob of solder.

I have a grounding problem at the computer.  RF from my transmitter gets gets picked up and rectified by the amplified computer speakers, and the UPS power strip and the cable modem both generate rubbish that gets into the power lines and causes interference in  my station receiver, even though the shack is separate from the house and located 80 ft away.  I have tried a brute-force a.c. line filter between the mains and the computer power strip, but the rf appears to be  travelling by common mode, and the ground wire simply serves as a by-passes and detours the rf around the filter. I have several isolation transformers, but would most likely have exactly the same problem with one of  those.  One possibility would be to eliminate the ground wire between the computer power strip and power mains, and strap it directly to neutral right at the secondary terminals of the isolation transformer.  But then I lose my lightning protection ground, but perhaps the shielded internet cable, which goes to a separate 8-ft ground rod at the cable entrance, would  serve the purpose.  The computer is located upstairs, so a direct wire leading to an earth ground (including the cable shield) makes a nice Marconi antenna, and would probably make the interference problem worse rather than better.  Anyone have other ideas or experiences to relate?  I suspect this is a very common problem.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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k7yoo
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« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2007, 01:47:10 PM »

PDM Stuff
I parted out a Continental PDM rig that ran three 3-500Z's
I the HV insulated filament iron, etc.if someone could put it to use I will trade it for something more useful. I even have the manual for the ugly thing.
Skip
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steve_qix
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« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2007, 05:14:07 PM »

PDM Stuff
I parted out a Continental PDM rig that ran three 3-500Z's
I the HV insulated filament iron, etc.if someone could put it to use I will trade it for something more useful. I even have the manual for the ugly thing.
Skip

Wow, would that rig have been SOMETHING on 160 !!!!!  The Continental had some rather unique features.  I can't, off hand, remember what it looked like, but most of the modern broadcast rigs just aren't as attractive as the older ones!

Regards,

Steve
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2007, 06:10:46 PM »

The Continental had some rather unique features.  I can't, off hand, remember what it looked like, but most of the modern broadcast rigs just aren't as attractive as the older ones!

It can't get much uglier than the Gates BC1-T, unless it's that one (CCA?) with the fake wood grain cabinet.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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This message was typed using the DVORAK keyboard layout.
http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak
N3DRB The Derb
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« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2007, 06:16:13 PM »

Quote
most of the modern broadcast rigs just aren't as attractive as the older ones!

This applies to almost anything.

The operative word is "plastic". Yes. it's all Plastic.  Grin
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2007, 07:20:38 PM »

LOL. A BC rig with a D-104. What a waste.
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2007, 07:42:55 PM »

Same thing you've been drinking. Grin

D-104 on a BC rig. What a waste.
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2007, 08:05:33 PM »

Looks like some good stuff!!

Lotsa good wineries up here in VA too.
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2007, 10:11:38 PM »

is it me or did the price of wine jump up. I have not bought any in a while and was shocked at the prices yesterday. My Uncle Joe has my G.F.'s old press and he tells me he in into making homebrew wine. Maybe I should visit him and get some pointers. $11 for 750 ml of good red stuff is almost as stupid as a $56 Christmas tree.

Oh not to rip off the thread I took a 300 volt defib a couple hours ago been years since I did anything that stupid.
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N3DRB The Derb
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« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2007, 02:29:17 AM »

http://www.bumwine.com/

prices of bum wines have never been lower.  Cheesy
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