Is there rivalry between cb?ers and hams?

[W4EWH]

If not for CB I likely would not be here.  When I was 16 my uncle urged me to get my ham license. He told me, in 2 years you will register for the draft. Many hams could be radio operators in the military. ?

Well I was in the last draft lottery, and fortunately got a high number, I think 248. Never got drafted but by that time I was enjoying this hobby. Wish my uncle was alive to thank him.

I'm a bit confused, OM: how would having a high draft number relate to being a Ham?

Bill,W4EWH

[Pete, WA2CWA]

If not for CB I likely would not be here.  When I was 16 my uncle urged me to get my ham license. He told me, in 2 years you will register for the draft. Many hams could be radio operators in the military. ?

Well I was in the last draft lottery, and fortunately got a high number, I think 248. Never got drafted but by that time I was enjoying this hobby. Wish my uncle was alive to thank him.

I'm a bit confused, OM: how would having a high draft number relate to being a Ham?

Bill,W4EWH

He could play radio without having to hold a rifle   

[W4EWH]

All i wanted was an HO train set.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

If you're curious about the "HO" model railroad guage,GIYF:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HO_scale.

The name HO comes from 1:87 scale being half that of O scale, which was originally the smallest of the series of older and larger 0, 1, 2 and 3 gauges introduced by Maklin around 1900.

The first time this was explained to me was by my brother, W3TDH: he used to be in a model train club that was so intense, the club's officers had to hold actual, genuine Railroad Engineer licenses, which required that they pass the same medical checks required of airline pilots!

Bill, W4EWH

[W4EWH]

If not for CB I likely would not be here.  When I was 16 my uncle urged me to get my ham license. He told me, in 2 years you will register for the draft. Many hams could be radio operators in the military. ?

Well I was in the last draft lottery, and fortunately got a high number, I think 248. Never got drafted but by that time I was enjoying this hobby. Wish my uncle was alive to thank him.

I'm a bit confused, OM: how would having a high draft number relate to being a Ham?

Bill,W4EWH

He could play radio without having to hold a rifle   

Oh,OK: I always thought that I was a Ham because it allowed me to have intelligent conversations with people whom were too far away to hit me. 

Bill, W4EWH

[WA2SQQ]

At an early age my uncle urged me to get my license, in the event I was drafted, I t might have increased my chances for getting assigned to some communication related position. A good friend of mine, WA2TDA, was in that situation and was sent to Okinawa for some sort of signal intelligence assignment

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Well...a bit late to the conversation, as usual.

Rivalry? Makes no sense. Amateur radio & Citizens Band are comparable to apples & oranges. Any competition is in the small minds of those who try to use something to elevate themselves, increase their perceived prestige and so on.

Back in the day there were surely hams who were miffed at losing one of their bands to average folks who didn't need to take a test to gain access, simply pay the $20 license fee and off you go. Wasn't around then so I can't say what any derision was like. My good friend and radio mentor Ray, KC1BT/SK told me that instead, many just accepted it and bought a rig for 11m as back then it was used mainly for local chat, along the lines of today's "2 meter CB".

I do know there have been many over the years who have looked down on CBers in an elitist way. Happened to me years ago at Hosstraders when I was looking at an old Browning Mobilaire set and heard something like "I didn't know you stooped to such levels!?!!" I pointed out that I collect and enjoy old tube gear - regardless of the service it comes from. Military, ham, CB, broadcast....makes no difference to me as I never blame an inanimate object for the way a previous owner may have used or misused it.

Are there idiots on CB? Without a doubt. Same goes for amateur radio, as pointed out by others. The numbers may be different, but the effect is still the same.

The most amusing aspect to me was always the newly-minted ham who jumps right on the 'dumb CBers' bandwagon to try to fit in. Many or most, like me, weren't even around then.

Question for Pete: which manufacturer did Lafayette use for their Comstat 25A set? Looks a lot like the ECI/Courier 23 except for the rounded cabinet design which looks like Regency.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Question for Pete: which manufacturer did Lafayette use for their Comstat 25A set? Looks a lot like the ECI/Courier 23 except for the rounded cabinet design which looks like Regency.

All the Lafayette Comstat's were OEM'd from Japan. I don't remember the manufacturer. If the catalog number for the product started with a "99", it was imported from Japan.
And. of course, whoever it was, could have been the OEM for a number of U.S. and international resellers and the designs could have been similar in look and feel and construction.

Also note that Courier 23 was manufactured by ECI/Courier, Mount Vernon, NY.

[KA3EKH]

Wow man that's deep! Are there idiots on CB? somehow think there's a good share of idiots everywhere.
CB operators use AM, we use AM and maybe the real question is if there is a rivalry between AM and SSB people? or Voice and CW?

[KD1SH]

  On CB, back in the day, there was great rivalry, even outright hostility, between AM and SSB ops. There was an unofficial "gentleman's agreement," similar to the agreement on the amateur bands to use LSB below 9mhz and USB above, with that agreement stipulating SSB only on certain frequencies and AM only on others within the forty CB channels. Incursions by either adherents into the other's "territory" led to unpleasantness.

Wow man that's deep! Are there idiots on CB? somehow think there's a good share of idiots everywhere.
CB operators use AM, we use AM and maybe the real question is if there is a rivalry between AM and SSB people? or Voice and CW?

[Pete, WA2CWA]

When there was only 23 channels, most of the SSB activity congregated on channel 16 and used LSB.
When 40 channels opened up, most of the SSB activity congregated on channels 35 to 40. However, with the advantage of many of the newer PLL-type CB's to easily shift operation higher in frequency, a lot of SSB moved there. Plus VFO's or "Siders" became a useful addition to the CB'er to move within the CB band and beyond.

Lafayette had a number of SSB/AM models from the 60's through the late 70's, but in many on-the-air CB demos and home operations, I never observed any hostility.

Of course, if you were around in the late 50's through the 60's and even into the 70's, the animosity between amateur radio operators using the SSB mode and the AM operators was quite strong and, at times, extremely humorous. It was quite prevalent on 75 and 40 meters. You couldn't buy this type of entertainment.

Today, this type of amateur radio animosity exists between users of digital modes and the rest of the amateur community that doesn't use any digital modes.

[KD1SH]

   In 1976, the number of CB license applications exceeded half a million per month. Of course, many operators didn't even bother with the license at all, making the total number of CB operators difficult to count. What resulted was certainly the most crowded 440khz in the history of radio communications, hence the temptation for many to venture out of band. I never got into the out-of-band operations, myself, but the local radio shops were doing a bang-up business converting rigs, not to mention the rigs modified (often very clumsily) by their owners.
   In my area, channels 16 and 17 were the customary hangout for SSB, along with 36 through 40, but channel 35 was a sort of no-man's land, and often hotly contested. Lower sideband use was encouraged, but there were a few groups that used upper sideband, resulting in some friction.
   The friction between SSB and AM operators wasn't entirely an interference issue; there was a perception that SSB operators were the "elite," and some of them played that up, while AM ops tended to resent the perceived superior attitude of the sidebanders. The price disparity between sideband and AM-only rigs encouraged that schism, with SSB rigs often selling for twice or more the price of AM-only rigs.
   I have to wonder if, had the popularity of CB not waned, CB manufacturers today would be offering some form of digital voice modes similar to DMR.

When there was only 23 channels, most of the SSB activity congregated on channel 16 and used LSB.
When 40 channels opened up, most of the SSB activity congregated on channels 35 to 40. However, with the advantage of many of the newer PLL-type CB's to easily shift operation higher in frequency, a lot of SSB moved there. Plus VFO's or "Siders" became a useful addition to the CB'er to move within the CB band and beyond.

Lafayette had a number of SSB/AM models from the 60's through the late 70's, but in many on-the-air CB demos and home operations, I never observed any hostility.

Of course, if you were around in the late 50's through the 60's and even into the 70's, the animosity between amateur radio operators using the SSB mode and the AM operators was quite strong and, at times, extremely humorous. It was quite prevalent on 75 and 40 meters. You couldn't buy this type of entertainment.

Today, this type of amateur radio animosity exists between users of digital modes and the rest of the amateur community that doesn't use any digital modes.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

   I have to wonder if, had the popularity of CB not waned, CB manufacturers today would be offering some form of digital voice modes similar to DMR.

What makes you say that "had the popularity of CB not waned"

Not digital voice but: In September 2021, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) in the US approved the use of the FM mode for CB radios, alongside the traditional AM and SSB modes.

For digital voice on a CB channel, there's probably no reason why a CB user couldn't use one of these:
http://www.aorusa.com/others/ard9800.html
if there was someone on the other end to communicate with.

[KD1SH]

   Citizen's Band Radio, in terms of the number of users and relevance in the consumer market, is surely only the most fleeting shadow of its former self. The rigs are still available at Walmart and Best Buy, but sales numbers would certainly be minuscule compared to the glory days of the 70's. Very little CB usage is heard these days on the highways; I suspect the long-haul truckers have moved on to something else.
   I doubt that the FCC's decision to allow the use of FM had anything to do with consumer demand. FM capable CB rigs had already been on the market for decades in the form of "export" rigs manufactured for the foreign markets where FM was allowed, with large numbers already in use here in the U.S.
   I suspect that the decision to allow FM was largely motivated by the FCC's washing their hands of CB enforcement, which had become a burden. They eliminated the licensing requirement, and later removed the rule prohibiting communications over 150 miles, since enforcing both required manpower and expense that the government couldn't justify. And, since FM rigs were already pouring into the country and readily available, they simply threw up their hands and gave in.
   In retrospect, though, I don't see why FM shouldn't have been allowed right from the beginning. Narrow-band FM would have been compatible with the 10khz channel spacing, and would likely have reduced interference with other users and services.   

   I have to wonder if, had the popularity of CB not waned, CB manufacturers today would be offering some form of digital voice modes similar to DMR.

What makes you say that "had the popularity of CB not waned"

Not digital voice but: In September 2021, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) in the US approved the use of the FM mode for CB radios, alongside the traditional AM and SSB modes.

For digital voice on a CB channel, there's probably no reason why a CB user couldn't use one of these:
http://www.aorusa.com/others/ard9800.html
if there was someone on the other end to communicate with.

[KA3EKH]

I always thought the best CB accessory was something like the Delta TURBO Echo and Roger Beep. Wonder how this useful and valuable technology has never showed up on the Ham bands yet, imagine the Hams are just behind the curve. Way better then digital.

[W4EWH]

Somewhere between all that I lost interest in CB. Girls got thrown into the mix too.

Back around 2004, I was speaking to an elderly Scoutmaster about the steps my son had to go through to be awarded Eagle Scout rank, and I remarked, toward the end of the conversation, "He's still got time: he's only Fourteen, so we've got a few years before the deadline."

The old man (I get to write that because I'm one myself now) shook his head and smiled at me sadly, and said "No, you don't: once they get a whiff of perfume and gasoline, they're gone!"

Bill, W4EWH

[KD1SH]

 Don't forget the noise toys: farting donkeys, mooing cows and crowing roosters. I haven't seen them yet in the HRO or DX Engineering catalogs; maybe the shipments from China have been delayed by the tariff negotiations.

I always thought the best CB accessory was something like the Delta TURBO Echo and Roger Beep. Wonder how this useful and valuable technology has never showed up on the Ham bands yet, imagine the Hams are just behind the curve. Way better then digital.

[KD6VXI]

Don't forget the noise toys: farting donkeys, mooing cows and crowing roosters. I haven't seen them yet in the HRO or DX Engineering catalogs; maybe the shipments from China have been delayed by the tariff negotiations.

I always thought the best CB accessory was something like the Delta TURBO Echo and Roger Beep. Wonder how this useful and valuable technology has never showed up on the Ham bands yet, imagine the Hams are just behind the curve. Way better then digital.

Sounds like TimTron on 75.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

[KD6VXI]

There was a big rivalry between ssb and am for a long time on 11.

Not so much anymore, especially since everyone is running a export or YeaComWood.

35 and up was for ssb when the 40 channel upgrade came.  16 was the big ssb channel in the 23 channel days.

Yes, the ssb guys REALLY thought their feecees didn't stink, compared to am guys.  For the most part, the ssb guys ran clean setups and the am guys would run class c.

Then Davemade and the rest of the battle box class c amps showed up.  Ssb went the way of crossover distortion on the standard 11 meter band.  The freehand is still pretty clean.

Now it's the am guys that have super clean setups.  Using SDR or wideband detectors on the receivers and external modulator on tx.

To each his own. 

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

[W4EWH]

Well...a bit late to the conversation, as usual.

Rivalry? Makes no sense. Amateur radio & Citizens Band are comparable to apples & oranges. Any competition is in the small minds of those who try to use something to elevate themselves, increase their perceived prestige and so on.

<snip >

I do know there have been many over the years who have looked down on CBers in an elitist way. Happened to me years ago at Hosstraders when I was looking at an old Browning Mobilaire set and heard something like "I didn't know you stooped to such levels!?!!" I pointed out that I collect and enjoy old tube gear - regardless of the service it comes from. Military, ham, CB, broadcast....makes no difference to me as I never blame an inanimate object for the way a previous owner may have used or misused it.

When folks feel compelled to use devices that they don't understand, they go back to the Book of Judges, and they invent Shibboleths to feel like they are distinct from everyone else doing the same thing. Thus, those using CB sets during the 60's were forced to learn a new made-up language, and "Smokey" became a synonym for "State" trooper," most likely because both "Smokey the Bear" and "Highway Patrolman" both applied to people who wore wide-brimmed hats. Anyone referring to an amplifier was expected to say "kicker" instead, and these other shibboleths (from https://www.rightchannelradios.com/pages/cb-radio-codes-and-lingos became common:)

Chicken Coop:	A weigh station.
Chicken Lights:	Extra lights on a truck?s exterior.
Christmas Card:	A ticket for speeding

So, we have some hams who disdain CB'ers because they realize CB'ers are just like them:

• both ham and CB sets have Push-To-Talk-and-Release-To-Listen buttons
• Neither group knows as much about antenna as they pretend
• Both Hams and CB'ers want approval from the public
• Neither group has home-brewed their equipment
• The list continues, ad infinitum

CB is withering away, for these reasons:

• Modern cars have so much RF noise in them that it's damned near impossible for CB sets to function, because they still use AM
• There's no longer any cachet to be able to call your girlfriend from your car
• Finding a source of DC is very difficult, too.
• Mounting antennas now requires a college degree
• Nobody is impressed by a Push-To-Talk-and-Release-To-Listen button anymore. Broderick Crawford no longer has better toys

Bill,W4EWH

 [/list][/list]

[KD1SH]

I don't recall that I ever used the lingo, even back in my younger days.
I haven't had a CB rig in a vehicle for many decades, but I do notice that my Icom IC-7000 picks up a bit of noise on 6 meter AM, though it's not horrible.
My Nissan Frontier has a connector under the dash for a trailer brake controller, and I've got the mating connector on my Icom power cable. Easy DC access with no cutting into anything.
I just mount my 6m/2m dual band vertical with a mag-mount; no holes or engineering degrees required.
I don't want approval from the public; I hope they think I'm a dangerous fanatic and keep their distance.

Well...a bit late to the conversation, as usual.

Rivalry? Makes no sense. Amateur radio & Citizens Band are comparable to apples & oranges. Any competition is in the small minds of those who try to use something to elevate themselves, increase their perceived prestige and so on.

<snip >

I do know there have been many over the years who have looked down on CBers in an elitist way. Happened to me years ago at Hosstraders when I was looking at an old Browning Mobilaire set and heard something like "I didn't know you stooped to such levels!?!!" I pointed out that I collect and enjoy old tube gear - regardless of the service it comes from. Military, ham, CB, broadcast....makes no difference to me as I never blame an inanimate object for the way a previous owner may have used or misused it.

When folks feel compelled to use devices that they don't understand, they go back to the Book of Judges, and they invent Shibboleths to feel like they are distinct from everyone else doing the same thing. Thus, those using CB sets during the 60's were forced to learn a new made-up language, and "Smokey" became a synonym for "State" trooper," most likely because both "Smokey the Bear" and "Highway Patrolman" both applied to people who wore wide-brimmed hats. Anyone referring to an amplifier was expected to say "kicker" instead, and these other shibboleths (from https://www.rightchannelradios.com/pages/cb-radio-codes-and-lingos became common:)

Chicken Coop:	A weigh station.
Chicken Lights:	Extra lights on a truck?s exterior.
Christmas Card:	A ticket for speeding

So, we have some hams who disdain CB'ers because they realize CB'ers are just like them:

• both ham and CB sets have Push-To-Talk-and-Release-To-Listen buttons
• Neither group knows as much about antenna as they pretend
• Both Hams and CB'ers want approval from the public
• Neither group has home-brewed their equipment
• The list continues, ad infinitum

CB is withering away, for these reasons:

• Modern cars have so much RF noise in them that it's damned near impossible for CB sets to function, because they still use AM
• There's no longer any cachet to be able to call your girlfriend from your car
• Finding a source of DC is very difficult, too.
• ]Mounting antennas now requires a college degree

Nobody is impressed by a Push-To-Talk-and-Release-To-Listen button anymore. Broderick Crawford no longer has better toys[/li][/list]

Bill,W4EWH

 

[W1RKW]

I've been licensed for 46 years.  Going back 25 or so years, when I moved after getting married my work commute went from a 5 minute drive to a 90minute drive. I got up in the morning at 330AM to to get ready for the commute to arrive at work around 630AM. I put a CB into my little Ford Escort to pass the driving time. 2m didn't cut it at that hour. The band was dead.  The Escort was a noise maker. I just turned up the squelch on the radio and drove. On many occasions I would pass some of the same truck drivers and they'd give me a "shout" on channel 19.  It was a mutual welcome to chit chat with others and take the boredom away and reduce the risk at falling asleep at the wheel. I recall nice cordial conversations with no radio lingo. No one would have noticed if we were CB'ers or amateurs. It was just 2 or more people talking the time away.

[W4EWH]

I don't want approval from the public; I hope they think I'm a dangerous fanatic and keep their distance.

 If you're South of the Mason-Dixon line, just put a "Biden" bumper sticker on your car!

Bill, W4EWH

[KD1SH]

   Or perhaps get myself a MAGA hat and walk around the UCONN campus, which isn't far from here. Great entertainment for someone whose idea of fun might be rubbing his head with bacon grease and sticking it down a badger hole.
   My wonderful wife, by the way, who is a bit challenged in history, geography, and linguistics, refers to the Mason-Dixon Line as the "Maple-Bacon" line, perhaps because she loves going out for breakfast.

I don't want approval from the public; I hope they think I'm a dangerous fanatic and keep their distance.

 If you're South of the Mason-Dixon line, just put a "Biden" bumper sticker on your car!

Bill, W4EWH

[Steve - K4HX]

Maryland is below the Mason-Dixon Line. 

[Tom W2ILA]

I can?t resist bringing free Lafayette 25 channel toob sets back to life.