Is there rivalry between cb?ers and hams?

[KD1SH]

   Indeed, not only would I probably not be here if it were not for CB, in general, but I probably wouldn't be here if it were not for the number of hams that I met on the CB band as well. Quite a few of them were old-timers, advanced and extra, who saw CB not only as a place to enjoy a comfortable, laid-back conversation but also as fertile ground for recruiting new hams. They encouraged us, without being arrogant or judgemental, and oftentimes invited us to their local club events, like field days, as well as to their shacks, to see their stations and watch them operate. By getting on the CB band and encouraging us, they did amateur radio a great service.

If not for CB I likely would not be here.  When I was 16 my uncle urged me to get my ham license. He told me, in 2 years you will register for the draft. Many hams could be radio operators in the military. ?
Well I was in the last draft lottery, and fortunately got a high number, I think 248. Never got drafted but by that time I was enjoying this hobby. Wish my uncle was alive to thank him.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Pete, am I incorrect, or did Hammarlund make one radio for Lafayette? I seem to recall a radio where the 23 channels were divided into three ranges selected from a trilevel channel selector.

I really surprised nobody mentioned the HB115A. A friend of mine had one that he added the nuvistor preamp Lafayette sold. I think he also added some sort of relay switching modification.

Our first synthesized 23 channel transceiver. HB-222, made by United Scientific Laboratories (USL), Long Island City, NY, was a troubled design right from its beginning. Almost every one sold developed off frequency operation.
Hammarlund had developed their CB-23 synthesized 23 channel transceiver so a deal was developed between Hammarlund and Lafayette, to order up a bunch of CB-23's (I don't remember how many) change the labeling, change the front panel, massage the manual to now say Lafayette HB-266, and maybe a few other minor changes. Never was advertised in the years catalog since it was only around for less then a year. New 23 channel designs were being generated for Lafayette and others in Japan.

The HB-115 and the first generation HB-115A were both made by United Scientific Laboratories in Long Island City, NY.
USL also manufactured the HB-111, HE-15 series, HE20/20A/20B/20C, HE-35 series, HE-45 series, and HE-50 series, and the accessory VFOs, HE-61 and HE-62, and a few other products for Lafayette.

[

[KD1SH]

   I worked in the Lafayette store in Manchester, Connecticut, back around 1977. Even though it wasn't a service depot, I would occasionally do some quick solder work for them out back at the small workbench they had. CB was big back then, and I remember offloading all those boxes of Telsat SSB-140's (a truly beautiful looking rig) from the weekly truck, coming from the warehouses in Syosset and Hauppauge out on Long Island. I have an SSB-140 in my collection, but it didn't come from those days; they went for around $300 back then, and they were paying me little more than minimum wage. I also still have the Lafayette stereo tuner/amp that I sold to my mother back then, an LR-3030, sporting the same brushed aluminum styling as the SSB-140.

I started part-time (was college freshman) at 139 W. 2nd St., Plainfield, NJ. They needed someone with some technical knowledge to work the CB and Amateur Dept. Thursday nights (when they were open late) and all day Saturday. There was an appliance store next to Lafayette, and area above the Lafayette store housed a garment shop of some sort.
The Lafayette store at this location now is a parking lot.

I also had the pleasure for 2 years, at roughly 6 months each time, to work at the Union Square store, NYC. All the employees from this store came from the original Lafayette store at 100 6th Ave. It was a Union shop so I couldn't handle the sale to completion (write the receipt, take the money, etc.) but I learned a lot from these salespeople.

In 1972, the Plainfield store moved to Route 22W, Watchung, NJ. Modern facilities, more room, better lighting, adjacent parking lot, and a lot more store traffic. I actually missed the grand opening because I was on my honeymoon up in Cape Cod.

After our service technician left abruptly (roughly some time in 1973), I took over all the service work for our store, plus, when asked, also did service support for the East Brunswick, Union, and Totowa stores and several times even for the Newark store. This stuff was done part-time - pickup stuff needing repair, take it home and repair it, bring it back repaired to the store where I picked it up. By this time, I was working full-time for Bell Telephone Laboratories in Holmdel.

When Chapter 11 closed in and most of the Lafayette stores in NJ were ordered to close, All service parts, cannibalized equipment, stuff that didn't have a stock number or identifier would either to put to dumpster or to me. Paramus store remained open, so for the next several years, I handled whatever Lafayette service work came into that store.  


When I was younger and just a few months earlier got my General, went to Lafayette in Newark. Mom like to shop in Newark (we lived in Rahway, NJ) so one day we took the train (mom didn't drive) to Newark, and in the course of shopping around, walked over to Lafayette at 24 Central Ave.
I bought a NE-30 neon bulb.The receipt has been in between the pages of my 1960 main Lafayette catalog since then. The date on the receipt is June 16, 1960.

Also in between the pages of the Lafayette 1960 catalog, I found an original IHOP menu with a date of 1962. The print in this thing is so small, it can double as an eye chart.

[KA3EKH]

OK about the Ham vs. CB thing, but the real questions is was there a rivalry between Radio Shack and Lafayette employees??? when I was a pup we had one Lafayette in town and two Radio Shacks located in malls, also two TV parts wholesalers. My memories were that Lafayette did not have all the parts in blister packs like Radio Shack did, and that Radio Shack sold integrated circuits and later computers and by that point Lafayette was thru.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

The Lafayette SSB-140 was the 40 channel base. Nice radio. I have the 23 channel version, Telsat SSB-100, which I picked up years ago at a hamfest for $5. The only other CB I still have is a LM-300 which I used to monitor highway conditions traveling to and from Dayton each year. I had the Icom IC-706 MKIIG also in the car but preferred the Lafayette for the CB listening.



The Lafayette LR-3030 and 3030A were part of a very nice and successful family of receivers which included LR-1515, 1515A, 2020, 2020A, 3030, 3030A, 5555, 5555A, and 9090. I've had a LR-5555 and 5555A for years at different times and a 3030. I pulled a LR-1515 that was in a house fire from a cleanup dumpster. Interior was covered in soot. Took some time to clean everything up and, bottom line, it still worked fine. I sold it to a friend and it's still working fine today.

What was really cool about these receivers was that you could tune the receiver dial all the way to the left side, and with one good spin of the main tuning knob, the dial pointer would move all the way to the end of the right side of the dial.

These receivers were designed by Planet Research and Pioneer (Pioneer also had a financial stake in Planet Research) and Planet Research did the manufacturing. Planet Research was an OEM for a number of Hi-Fi brands.
I still have some of the Integrated power output modules that were used in the 3030 and 5555.

  I worked in the Lafayette store in Manchester, Connecticut, back around 1977. Even though it wasn't a service depot, I would occasionally do some quick solder work for them out back at the small workbench they had. CB was big back then, and I remember offloading all those boxes of Telsat SSB-140's (a truly beautiful looking rig) from the weekly truck, coming from the warehouses in Syosset and Hauppauge out on Long Island. I have an SSB-140 in my collection, but it didn't come from those days; they went for around $300 back then, and they were paying me little more than minimum wage. I also still have the Lafayette stereo tuner/amp that I sold to my mother back then, an LR-3030, sporting the same brushed aluminum styling as the SSB-140.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

OK about the Ham vs. CB thing, but the real questions is was there a rivalry between Radio Shack and Lafayette employees??? when I was a pup we had one Lafayette in town and two Radio Shacks located in malls, also two TV parts wholesalers. My memories were that Lafayette did not have all the parts in blister packs like Radio Shack did, and that Radio Shack sold integrated circuits and later computers and by that point Lafayette was thru.

You would have to find all the former Lafayette and Radio Shack employees and ask them.
Back then, if I needed a electronic part and Lafayette didn't have it, I'd check with the local Radio Shack stores or other electronic part stores in the area.

Let me point out that even after the last bankruptcy proceeding in 1981, Lafayette didn't disappear. Five stores in the New York City area, including one in NJ. were bought by Circuit City, Richmond, VA. The stores were rebranded Lafayette-Circuit City and stayed open until the late 80's. Even though Lafayette's main warehouse and service area closed several months after bankruptcy settlement, I continued Lafayette service work until roughly 1985/86. Speculation was that Circuit City was testing the NYC market. Circuit City opened several area stores several years later, with just the Circuit City Banner.

[KD1SH]

   I think maybe you mean the LM-300? (no S) If that's the case, I think that was the dual-receive job, with the dual channel selectors and displays. As I remember, the LM (AM only) and the LMS (S for sideband) series replaced the older Telsat models just before Lafayette started circling the drain.
   Of all the myriad CB models that came on the scene in those days, I always felt that the SSB-100 and 140 were just about the nicest looking base rigs. For mobile rigs, I always loved Radio Shack's TRC-449, with its gleaming chrome and fake wood-grain. I've got several of those in my collection. A bit of CB collecting trivia: Most of those TRC-449's had brilliant mirror-finish chrome bezels, but a few, the later versions I suspect, had a more subdued matte-finish. Maybe mobile users complained about distracting reflections in their eyes.
   Yes, I love that tuning dial on the Lafayette receivers! Reminds me of the wonderful Eddystone dials on my Clegg Zeus and Interceptor

The Lafayette SSB-140 was the 40 channel base. Nice radio. I have the 23 channel version, Telsat SSB-100, which I picked up years ago at a hamfest for $5. The only other CB I still have is a LMS-300 which I used to monitor highway conditions traveling to and from Dayton each year. I had the Icom IC-706 MKIIG also in the car but preferred the Lafayette for the CB listening.


The Lafayette LR-3030 and 3030A were part of a very nice and successful family of receivers which included LR-1515, 1515A, 2020, 2020A, 3030, 3030A, 5555, 5555A, and 9090. I've had a LR-5555 and 5555A for years at different times and a 3030. I pulled a LR-1515 that was in a house fire from a cleanup dumpster. Interior was covered in soot. Took some time to clean everything up and, bottom line, it still worked fine. I sold it to a friend and it's still working fine today.

What was really cool about these receivers was that you could tune the receiver dial all the way to the left side, and with one good spin of the main tuning knob, the dial pointer would move all the way to the end of the right side of the dial.

These receivers were designed by Planet Research and Pioneer (Pioneer also had a financial stake in Planet Research) and Planet Research did the manufacturing. Planet Research was an OEM for a number of Hi-Fi brands.
I still have some of the Integrated power output modules that were used in the 3030 and 5555.

  I worked in the Lafayette store in Manchester, Connecticut, back around 1977. Even though it wasn't a service depot, I would occasionally do some quick solder work for them out back at the small workbench they had. CB was big back then, and I remember offloading all those boxes of Telsat SSB-140's (a truly beautiful looking rig) from the weekly truck, coming from the warehouses in Syosset and Hauppauge out on Long Island. I have an SSB-140 in my collection, but it didn't come from those days; they went for around $300 back then, and they were paying me little more than minimum wage. I also still have the Lafayette stereo tuner/amp that I sold to my mother back then, an LR-3030, sporting the same brushed aluminum styling as the SSB-140.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

  I think maybe you mean the LM-300? (no S) If that's the case, I think that was the dual-receive job, with the dual channel selectors and displays. As I remember, the LM (AM only) and the LMS (S for sideband) series replaced the older Telsat models just before Lafayette started circling the drain.
  

Correct - it is the LM-300. I probably was thinking of the Lafayette LMS-40 which I had also owned for several years. (brain fog)

[KD6VXI]

I remember in the 70s my grandfather hooking up a cb.  Realistic TRC 47.  Paid a few hundred bucks for it, 24 channels with 46 more on ssb!  Lol

When he turned it on, signals from all over the USA came in.....  I was hooked!

My grandfather was a WW2 comms specialist, could do cw with his fist over 50 wpm...  and had ZERO interest in becoming a ham.  But sure pushed me every second of the day and way to license and get off 11 meters.

Never figured that out.  He HATED me being on 11 meters.  Even though he turned me on to it, he sparked my interest, and he flatly refused to get a ham ticket.

He also NEVER ran an illegal cb.  Even when I offered him an 8 watt export, nope.  Thems illegal.

I tried for decades to get my ticket.  Never could get the 5 wpm.  I had passed novice to extra when I first took my tests, but couldn't get the 5 wpm so was tech plus.

I should upgrade.



--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

[Opcom]

Buried in the lab somewhere is an old 23 CH CB with two concentric channel knobs and an extra switch for 1/2/1-2 which selected one, the other, or alternated between the two, stopping when the squelch was broken. The radio itself is a solid state 12V mobile type but very large and heavy. There are also a couple of Johnson white face CBs, which run on 6VDC or 115VAC.

Does anyone else like the Sonar FS-23?

[KD1SH]

   And from the beautiful SSB-100/140 and Realistic TRC-449, we move on to the thoroughly butt-ugly Johnson Viking 4740. It's almost as if Johnson's designers deliberately intended the rig to be unattractive, but I suppose it simply reflects Johnson's business-band/public service equipment heritage. As if to compound the visual assault, they also chose to put the microphone connector at the rear, near the coax connector. But, visual hideousness aside, and true to Johnson's heritage, it's a solid, dependable little rig.
   I call this my "Barf Radio," not entirely because of its appearance, but because of how I obtained it. A number of years ago, at Nearfest, I was walking past a small camp-trailer, and noticed the rig sitting on a table in front of the camper, but there was no one around. I was interested in the rig, and figured I'd wait around a bit for the seller to show up, but then I heard a gurgling, groaning, stomach-distress sort of sound from behind the camper, accompanied by occasional messy spattering noises. Someone peered around the camper, looking none-too-well, and I asked, "ten bucks for the CB?"
   "Sure," he grunted, "just leave the money on the table," before quickly disappearing behind the camper to continue purging whatever offending food item he'd eaten the evening before. And thus the Barf Radio was added to my collection, and among my local group of collectors, those Johnson rigs are still known as Barf Radios. "Bill, there's a Barf Radio up at the north end of the fairgrounds, next to the red Suburban," or something similar, is likely to be heard on my Kenwood HT to this day at hamfests.

[W1RKW]

that is butt ugly and a hilarious story.

[Opcom]

I sort of like the appearance.

[KD1SH]

   It does have a rather practical, functional appearance, like a mule. Which end of the mule, I guess, would be the question.

I sort of like the appearance.

[W1RKW]

Back when I was a CB JN I subscribed to Popular Electronics.  Occasionally PE would do a piece on CB radios.  I had a liking of the SBE series.  One that always kept me wishing to have was the SBE  Console.  Like much of the audio equipment of that era, it came in a wood cabinet and it was very eye appealing. A coworker of mine had one and asked me to look at it because it was not working properly.  I wasn't impressed with the internal construction but I got it working as it should.  His was in very good condition. He took care of it.  It was a very nice looking rig on the outside and seemed to work quite well considering its age.

[KD1SH]

  Yes, some of the SBE rigs were very nice looking. That Console V is quite the prize on the collector market even today, although I think the Console II was a bit better internally.
  The thing about the CB market back in the day was that those rigs were targeted at a largely non-technical demographic. Unlike hams who'd be more likely to buy a rig based on its features and technical specs, the average CB'er was more likely to go for aesthetics.
  I often proudly show my wife my ham rig acquisitions, and her response is usually an uninspired "That's nice, go put it in your radio room," but one day when I came home with a shiny chrome Cobra 2000, it was "Now that's a radio I like!"

Back when I was a CB JN I subscribed to Popular Electronics.  Occasionally PE would do a piece on CB radios.  I had a liking of the SBE series.  One that always kept me wishing to have was the SBE  Console.  Like much of the audio equipment of that era, it came in a wood cabinet and it was very eye appealing. A coworker of mine had one and asked me to look at it because it was not working properly.  I wasn't impressed with the internal construction but I got it working as it should.  His was in very good condition. He took care of it.  It was a very nice looking rig on the outside and seemed to work quite well considering its age.

[KD6VXI]

The Good Old Cobra 2000.

Or as mine is called (has rca line level in and a buffered detector output)....  A Wideband Cobra Two Grand.


--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

[W6WAC]

I guess I'm just like a number of us that are on here.  I too started out in CB of the 70's.  My best friend's dad had a Super MC12 with a D104 hooked to it.  I didn't think much of it at the time until my friend took me over to one of his neighbors who had just received a Lafayette CB, similar or maybe the same as the HB444 that WA2SQQ had pictured.  I was hooked immediately.  For me, my first CB is a TRC55 which I still have.  By 1979 I was a licensed ham.  Along the way, a TRC448 and TRC457 came into possession along with a Sears RoadTalker.

Scott
W6WAC

[WA2SQQ]

Here in Nothhern NJ we had two ?dealers? that maintained an almost 24 hour presence on ?their? channel. Al Boney was in Nutley NJ, representing the Browning Eagle on Ch13. On 11, in the Southern part of Newark, there was a couple (Betty and Vinny) who owned some sort of auto repair business, representing the Demco Satellite brand. I recall meeting Betty the first time, walking in to her office to see a brassy elder bleach blonde putting her makeup on using the back of her D104 as a mirror.

What amazed me was that both of these ?dealers? were running sweep tube amplifiers, likely around 500w, openly using their assigned call sign, and neither ever got caught. We had a very aggressive FCC field engineer who invoked his rath quite often. After I got my amateur license I would get to know him, Dave Popkins, at a. more sociable level. Dave was also a ham. Browning and Demco were out of my financial reach, but having a Tram Titan was my real dream.

[KD1SH]

   Interesting to note that the Cobra 2000, and the later "three-button" Washington, with the Uniden 8719 board, employed series modulation in the AM mode, with a Darlington pair as the series element. Being series modulated they would have been capable of excellent AM audio, but since the FCC specified 10khz channel spacing, there was a lot of upstream filtering in place to keep the transmit bandwidth appropriately narrow.
   The original "two-button" Washington, Cobra 139, Realistic TRC-449, TRC-457/458, and a great many others, used the Uniden 858 board with conventional modulation transformer. The modulation transformers were deliberately designed with limited bandwidth, so less upstream filtering was needed.
   The Trams and Brownings used conventional modulation transformers, but other tube rigs, like the Courier Royale, used an interesting modulation transformer where the class-A modulator was connected to the primary's center-tap, with B+ to one side and the final PA to the other. The modulator is single-ended class-A, like Heising, but not technically Heising, since with the center-tap the transformer is acting like an auto-transformer rather than as a simple reactance.

The Good Old Cobra 2000.

Or as mine is called (has rca line level in and a buffered detector output)....  A Wideband Cobra Two Grand.


--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

[KD6VXI]

Here in Nothhern NJ we had two ?dealers? that maintained an almost 24 hour presence on ?their? channel. Al Boney was in Nutley NJ, representing the Browning Eagle on Ch13. On 11, in the Southern part of Newark, there was a couple (Betty and Vinny) who owned some sort of auto repair business, representing the Demco Satellite brand. I recall meeting Betty the first time, walking in to her office to see a brassy elder bleach blonde putting her makeup on using the back of her D104 as a mirror.

What amazed me was that both of these ?dealers? were running sweep tube amplifiers, likely around 500w, openly using their assigned call sign, and neither ever got caught. We had a very aggressive FCC field engineer who invoked his rath quite often. After I got my amateur license I would get to know him, Dave Popkins, at a. more sociable level. Dave was also a ham. Browning and Demco were out of my financial reach, but having a Tram Titan was my real dream.

DEMCO

Dosy Electronics Manufacturing COmpany.

Owned by Emil Dosy.

Sister company to Wawassee BlackCat Electronics.

My friend Dennis has warehouses full of stuff from Dosy (demco) all the way to multiple TWT, large ceramics, etc.

He thought it would be his swan song multiple warehouses filled with prototypes (he had a W6SAI 2 X 500Z prototype, etc from Eimac) but a few rats and other critters destroyed multiple acres of electronics history.

Spent over a decade going over his stuff.  It's mostly crap now.  All lost to time, tech, etc. In the mid 2000s his collection would have been in the half million dollar category.  Today, maybe 10 grand.  All junk destroyed by time, rust, rodents and a lack of people whom cared.



--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

[W1RKW]

I just bought a reel to reel tape deck to gut for spare parts for a tape deck that I have. The price was right and I only needed a few things out of it to support my machine. What I got was good but when I got the box from the seller, something told me to open it up outside which I did. It had a slight odor to it. Opened it up and the interior was a mouse nest. Nothing living in it fortunately but mouse crap all over the place. This machine evidently lived in a barn or worse in someones basement/house for a period. I always worry about what bugs are being shipped around.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Dave Popkin >>  https://www.qcwa.org/w2cc-17294.htm

What amazed me was that both of these ?dealers? were running sweep tube amplifiers, likely around 500w, openly using their assigned call sign, and neither ever got caught. We had a very aggressive FCC field engineer who invoked his rath quite often. After I got my amateur license I would get to know him, Dave Popkins, at a. more sociable level. Dave was also a ham. Browning and Demco were out of my financial reach, but having a Tram Titan was my real dream.

[W4EWH]

Why not make it a three-way rumble and include the GMRS jockeys?

Let's go back a bit ...


My perspective comes from being a commercial radio repairman after I got home from Vietnam in 1972. both CB and my memories ate older now, so YMMV.

• The original Citizen's Radio Service was located at about 470 MHz. These were the original "class A" and "Class B" services,although I don't remember which was for talking and which was "radio control".
• The radios originally used on CB class "A" or "B" were commercial units designed to make vacuum tubes operate at UHF: IIRC we fixed Motorola "TWIN V" rigs, which needed quarterly tune-ups to remain on frequency,even though (IIRC) they had crystal ovens. Now that I think about it, ISTR that "class B" units had slightly looser tolerances and could go a little bit longer between tune-ups, but the point is that the only off-the-shelf units available at that time were the same ones used for taxis and police cars - the "low cost" goal of CRS was dead on arrival because the radios were too expensive for the farmers or other casual users to use.
• The radio manufacturers here in the states knew that cheaper transistorized designs were already in the pipeline around the Pacific Rim
• They were very scared that they might be stranded with the vast stores of vacuum tubes which were still in their warehouses after WW II and Korea
• The manufacturers needed a frequency band which would work well with vacuum tubes, and they convinced the FCC to assign the 11 meter band,  which Hams shared with Diathermy, to a new "Class C" and "Class D" allotment for farmers, doctors, feed stores and threshers to use. At only ~26 MHz, their vacuum tubes worked fine, and they started an agressive manufacturing and  product-placement ad campaign which caused problems when moviegoers noticed that the actors in movies such as "Smokey and The Bandit" weren't pushing their "push-to-talk" switches while reciting their dialog.
• The ad agencies paid for "foot switches" to be placed next to CB rigs wherever they were sold - a ploy that worked so well that we can see the "foot switches" at CB kiosks in truckstops to this day
• The old CB class A and B assignments on UHF were reallocated to the new "GMRS" service,  still covered by Part 95 of the FCC rules, which makes good use of the pacific-rim assembly lines - so much so that many truckers use it instead of CB!

Well, that's my take on the whole thing, As I wrote before, YMMV.

Bill, W4EWH

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[Pete, WA2CWA]

The equipment required for ultra-high frequency radios, during the late 40's through the 50's were neither practical nor affordable for the average consumer. So on September 11, 1958, the FCC created CB service class D on 27 MHz or 11 meter amateur band. Over the years, the 11 meter amateur band had showed very limited amateur radio use. The near-by 10 meter amateur band was more in favor as it provided both domestic and international activity.

Through the late 50's and through most of the 60's, this new CB 27 MHz service was found to be very popular with the home owner and the casual car user.

However, with the establishment of the 55 MPH and heavy enforcement in 1974 on all the major highways, CB found a very large audience with truck drivers and other mobile users that used our highways regularly to relay "speed traps", law enforcement highway monitoring locations, along with road and travel status.

The first Smokey and the Bandit movie came out in 1977.

Many movies never give accurate representation as to how amateur radio, CB, and radio/transmitting props in general are operated. As an example. there have several movie instances where Heathkit receivers were used as transceivers.

I seriously doubt manufacturers were worried about excess vacuum tubes in their inventory after WW II and Korea War. Through the late 40's, all through the 50's and into the 60's, manufacturing of vacuum tube radios, TV's, and tons of test equipment and military equipment (we were shooting for the moon) had skyrocketed. I doubt the CB 27 MHz service saved the day for them.    Plus, after the War, the military was dumping all their storage of parts and tons of their completed equipment.