6m local rag chew suggestions

[n5ama]

I?m interested in joining some of the local AM gang in playing with 6m AM. I have located a combo Clegg Zeus/Interceptor but it will be a few months before I can get it in the shack and probably some additional weeks before I get it operational. For starters, I?m using a copper pipe J pole antenna that will be located on the top of my 50? tower.

In the meantime I would like to get something on the air a little quicker to see if I?m wasting my time on 6m.  I?m thinking maybe either a Heathkit Seneca or a Johnson 6N2. If I go with the 6N2, it looks like I can modify either my Viking 1 or 2 to supply and modulate the 6N2.

As an alternative that won?t require modifying my Vikings, would be use a Clegg Thor supply/modulator. This looks like a fairly simple cable assembly, using the 6N2 vfo, a PTT mod and an external meter on the Clegg to monitor modulation current.

Any suggestions/advise would be greatly appreciated.

Tom N5AMA

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I?m interested in joining some of the local AM gang in playing with 6m AM. I have located a combo Clegg Zeus/Interceptor but it will be a few months before I can get it in the shack and probably some additional weeks before I get it operational. For starters, I?m using a copper pipe J pole antenna that will be located on the top of my 50? tower.

In the meantime I would like to get something on the air a little quicker to see if I?m wasting my time on 6m.  I?m thinking maybe either a Heathkit Seneca or a Johnson 6N2. If I go with the 6N2, it looks like I can modify either my Viking 1 or 2 to supply and modulate the 6N2.

As an alternative that won?t require modifying my Vikings, would be use a Clegg Thor supply/modulator. This looks like a fairly simple cable assembly, using the 6N2 vfo, a PTT mod and an external meter on the Clegg to monitor modulation current.

Any suggestions/advise would be greatly appreciated.

Tom N5AMA

The majority of 6 meter activity seems to be digital today. There are still localized 6 meter AM nets I'm told. I'm located in the NY/Philly metro area and I haven't heard a 6 meter AM signal in quite awhile. The last time I heard any phone activity was during an aurora opening around the beginning of the month. 6 meter phone activity, and even CW activity, is not like it was years ago. The majority just want to play digital.

Most of the 6 meter activity I'm aware of (except for FM above up 52 MHz) runs horizontal-type antennas.

I have a Clegg Zeus transmitter and an Interceptor and Interceptor B receiver. There are several members here who also have similar combos. The Zeus, if a problem, can be a real head scratch at times.

I also have a Clegg Thor. Great AM rig. You don't need an external VFO. It has a VFO built in. It has PTT. I've never had need of an external meter to monitor modulation current (WHY?)

[KD6VXI]

It's not so much that people want to play digital.

It's more that it's the only mode left when you have S9+ levels of static now.

--Shane
WP2ASS  / ex KD6VXI

[n5ama]

Hi Pete,
Thanks for the reply! I don?t expect any 6m AM activity until the AM group gets all their 6m junk pulled down from the attic and tries to put it on the air. I?ve got a Icom (ugh) SS rig to listen to until I get some hollow state gear on the air.

I looked around for a Thor but could only find a supply (on epay) so if the supply will work with a 6N2, I thought it might be easier than modifying my Viking 1 or 2. If the Thor supply/modulator works for the 6N2, I would like to have a way to monitor/set modulation current. The Thor has a connector to make that easy.
Thanks again,
Tom

[n5ama]

I also looked at a Heathkit Seneca but couldn?t find any positive (or negative) feedback on it and the only one I ran across on epay was $260. Without knowing more about it, I?m reluctant to spend that much on the normal epay crap shoot involved in not knowing exactly what you are buying.
Tom

[KA3EKH]

50.40 is considered the National AM Simplex Frequency, 52.525 is the National FM Simplex Calling Frequency. If the band is open you can cover some considerable distance but never open any time I listen. Think serious operators run digital or SSB. Think the first thing you will need is someone in your local area that you can operate directly and build up experience on what works.
Did a lot of six meter FM when I was a Tech Plus but the last twenty years or so just play around with 51.0 FM Simplex because that's where all the people playing with old military stuff hang out and we use that as a push at shows and events. We all do vertical because its hard to do otherwise on a jeep or truck but DX is unheard of in our world.
 

[n5ama]

You are right. It will take a few guys to get on the air with some gear to determine if this is a colossal waste of time and I think we are going to try vertical polarization first.

The good news is we are already on 75 and 40m, so we can talk while we are trying to get 6m working.
Tom N5AMA

[W3JKO]

I'd like to hop on 6M but I will wait until I buy a new HF rig with 6M and do it.  Since most include 6M now Im not spending extra $$$ just to try a possibly dead band.  Heck the old timers used to talk about it being dead back in the 80's when I was first licensed, but then it may have been because of the fear of TVI. 

[KD1SH]

   It's great to hear another op expressing interest in 6-meter AM! I've always felt that 6-meters is one of our best bands, but very much underappreciated. We have a good amount of 6-meter AM activity up here in the Northeast, but you'll need to be realistic in your expectations; you probably won't find regular, every-night activity in your area. Even up here in the Northeast, most of our 6-meter AM activity centers around regularly scheduled nets.
   Unless you expect most of your local 6-meter activity to be very local, I suggest you put a beam up on your tower. Something like a 3-element Yagi will have enough gain to make a huge improvement in coverage, yet with a broad enough pattern so as not to be too cumbersome in a net. Most serious 6-meter ops will be using horizontal polarity, too.
   If you do have the opportunity to acquire a Zeus and Interceptor, go for it! I can't say enough about those rigs; they are simply the best commercially made 6-meters AM rigs out there. The Zeus will give you ~120 watts of clean, good-sounding, plate-modulated RF, and the Interceptor receives at least as well as my modern IC-7300. Watch out, though: Zeus transmitters often show up on the market without their power supply/modulators. Likewise the Thor, also a great rig but often separated from its power supply/modulator.
   I won't go through every classic rig out there, there are many, but I can also recommend the Gonset G-50, lower powered than the Zeus at around 25-30 watts but still a superb rig. Either a G-50 or a Thor would be my next choice after the Zeus/Interceptor. The Clegg 66'er is fine, but only 10 watts out, and the 99'er as well, at only 5 watts, but both are crystal-controlled on transmit so you'll need either the appropriate crystals or an external VFO. The Seneca is a nice looking rig, though very heavy. It's also controlled-carrier, so if you're not fond of that type of modulation you might want to steer clear of it.
   Kludging up a method of using a Thor power supply/modulator with a Johnson 6n2 might turn out to be more trouble than it's worth. Even if the B+ voltage and current requirements are similar, the modulating impedance of the final PA almost certainly would not be correct for the Thor's modulation transformer's transformation ratio, and by the time you got all the cabling worked out, you'd likely wind up with poor performance after all the trouble. You'd be better off, I suspect, going with the Viking. Better yet, go with the Zeus/Interceptor.

I?m interested in joining some of the local AM gang in playing with 6m AM. I have located a combo Clegg Zeus/Interceptor but it will be a few months before I can get it in the shack and probably some additional weeks before I get it operational. For starters, I?m using a copper pipe J pole antenna that will be located on the top of my 50? tower.

In the meantime I would like to get something on the air a little quicker to see if I?m wasting my time on 6m.  I?m thinking maybe either a Heathkit Seneca or a Johnson 6N2. If I go with the 6N2, it looks like I can modify either my Viking 1 or 2 to supply and modulate the 6N2.

As an alternative that won?t require modifying my Vikings, would be use a Clegg Thor supply/modulator. This looks like a fairly simple cable assembly, using the 6N2 vfo, a PTT mod and an external meter on the Clegg to monitor modulation current.

Any suggestions/advise would be greatly appreciated.

Tom N5AMA

[n5ama]

Hi Bill,
Thanks for the reply and the feedback on the gear. I?m sure you are right about mating the Clegg with the 6N2 but I hate the thought of modifying either of my Vikings to work with the 6N2. The mod is well documented in the 6N2 manual but rather not do it.

I have a Icom 551 for a receiver that has AM capability but I?m guessing a rice box won?t do the job on power out or audio quality. I feel the vertical polarization will work better for our local rag chew and the J pole should be adequate.

I have the Clegg Zeus and supply/modulator along with the Interceptor already rounded up but not picked up which will happen in June. I?m looking forward to playing with that gear but would like something to test the water before then while there is some interest in our local rag chew group.

Tom

[KD1SH]

   I've never had an IC-551, but I suspect it would work fine for "testing the water," as you say. Unless it's the IC-551D, I think, it will only put out a maximum of around 4 watts on AM, and like most of the earlier Icom rigs the transmit bandwidth is probably quite narrow.
   If the locals you'll be working aren't far away, and they're running vertically polarized, your J-Pole at 50 feet should work fine, especially if your surrounding terrain is flat for many miles around. I predict, though, that if you start getting really enthusiastic about 6-meter AM, and your group starts attracting attention from other ops out over the horizon, you'll be looking at beams.
   Maybe we'll work on 6 someday; I've worked into Texas and Florida a number of times during band openings.

Hi Bill,
Thanks for the reply and the feedback on the gear. I?m sure you are right about mating the Clegg with the 6N2 but I hate the thought of modifying either of my Vikings to work with the 6N2. The mod is well documented in the 6N2 manual but rather not do it.

I have a Icom 551 for a receiver that has AM capability but I?m guessing a rice box won?t do the job on power out or audio quality. I feel the vertical polarization will work better for our local rag chew and the J pole should be adequate.

I have the Clegg Zeus and supply/modulator along with the Interceptor already rounded up but not picked up which will happen in June. I?m looking forward to playing with that gear but would like something to test the water before then while there is some interest in our local rag chew group.

Tom

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I have a Icom 551 for a receiver that has AM capability but I?m guessing a rice box won?t do the job on power out or audio quality. I feel the vertical polarization will work better for our local rag chew and the J pole should be adequate.

I have the Clegg Zeus and supply/modulator along with the Interceptor already rounded up but not picked up which will happen in June. I?m looking forward to playing with that gear but would like something to test the water before then while there is some interest in our local rag chew group.

Tom

There were two IC-551's offered in the 80's. IC-551 at 10 watts and the IC-551D at 50 watts. Many 6 meter DX'ers loved the IC-551 for it's receiver.
Set your IC-551 for 50.4 MHz and listen for all the activity  

Most of the Icom equipment that offered HF plus 6 meter capability over the last 25 years, can do AM at roughly 5.9 KHz.
6 meters is not a band where Hi-Fi audio and wide bandwidth are really important. It serves no real purpose. It typically generates nothing more then a yawn.

Th Gonset G-50 is a great 6 meter AM rig. Some drift but not that bad. After short period of operating, cabinet gets so hot, you can fry eggs in a skillet on the cabinet top or, at the very least, keep the coffee in the pot very hot.

Over the years, I found new homes for many of my "vintage" 6 meter receivers, transmitters. and transceivers.

But, I've kept the Clegg 99'er, Clegg 66'er, Clegg Thor, Clegg Venus, Clegg Zeus, Clegg Interceptor and Interceptor B, Clegg All Bander(in case I get the urge to listen to HF), and a few other Clegg related equipment and accessories.

I also held on to my big 6 meter shoes, the Gonset 913 linear (single 4CX250B) and the Johnson 6N2 Thunderbolt (two 4CX250B's).

AND, of course, my pride and joy: Whippany Labs Li'l Lulu receiver and transmitter (I have 2 pairs - only 6 receivers ever made):

[KA3EKH]

I know the Gonset Communicator was called the "Gooney Box" but is the G-50 also a Gooney Box?

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I know the Gonset Communicator was called the "Gooney Box" but is the G-50 also a Gooney Box?

NO - Trivia: it was called that due to the magic eye tube tuning indicator on the front panel

But you could call the G-50 a "6 Meter Hot Box". Likewise, you can probably call the G-28, the 10 meter version, a "10 Meter Hot Box"  

                  

[KD1SH]

Th Gonset G-50 is a great 6 meter AM rig. Some drift but not that bad. After short period of operating, cabinet gets so hot, you can fry eggs in a skillet on the cabinet top or, at the very least, keep the coffee in the pot very hot.

AND, of course, my pride and joy: Whippany Labs Li'l Lulu receiver and transmitter (I have 2 pairs - only 6 receivers ever made):

Yes indeed, the G-50 is a fine winter space-heater, thanks in part to its pair of 6L6's in single-ended class A, and the 5U4 rectifier.
Very little drift, compared to a Lafayette HA-460, which doesn't just drift; it goes over the falls in a barrel!

Yes, the Li'l Lulu! I've got only the transmitter, but I keep my eyes open at every hamfest for the receiver, though my chances are about on par with seeing Hiram ride by on a unicorn.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Yes indeed, the G-50 is a fine winter space-heater, thanks in part to its pair of 6L6's in single-ended class A, and the 5U4 rectifier.
Very little drift, compared to a Lafayette HA-460, which doesn't just drift; it goes over the falls in a barrel!

Yes, the Li'l Lulu! I've got only the transmitter, but I keep my eyes open at every hamfest for the receiver, though my chances are about on par with seeing Hiram ride by on a unicorn.

One of the major heat problems with the HA-460 and HA-410 is the short chassis height  and the cramming in of several high wattage resistors that generate a lot of heat and there is no adequate air circulation to vent out the heat.  Years ago a bought a laptop cooling pad from Amazon and my HA-460 or 410 would sit on it. I think I powered the cooling pad from a wall wart. Worked great to pull the heat out and keep drift to a minimum.

Last I heard, there is one Li'l Lulu receiver in Iowa, one in Michigan, one was destroyed and underneath a landfill, and the last one was somewhere in the Phoenix, AZ area(this one is old news (the original owner would be about 110 years of age now) so I really don't know). And added trivia, the designer Ed Ladd was sent the AZ receiver/transmitter combo for repair back in the late 80's and I had a hand in getting it back up and running.

The receiver was actually a work in progress; the designer couldn't decide on some circuitry, I think, relating to AGC components so he built three versions (2 of each type). He had several pre-orders for the receiver, so he requested feedback on performance, etc. so that he could hopefully decide on the final design.

Unfortunately, the final decision was to not move forward with further receiver manufacture and shortly thereafter, the transmitter was also discontinued.

[n5ama]

Well, I guess I can abandon my plans to find one working and two extra for ?parts? units. LOL
Tom

[KD1SH]

   When I bought my HA-460, I replaced all the electrolytics before powering it up, and immediately figured it'd be drifty, the way everything was jammed in there so tightly. The G-50, on the other hand, is quite roomy inside and easier to work on.
   On the good side, if you can live with the drift, the HA-460 has decent receive; doesn't need a crystal; and unlike most comparable rigs it uses a push-pull class-B modulator (with a phase-inverter driver, no less) instead of the more common Heising (not that I have anything against Heising).
The Zeus, Thor, and HA-460 are the only 6-meter AM rigs I can think of at the moment that don't use Heising. You might know of some others, Pete, with your impressive knowledge of classic rigs. It would be an interesting bit of radio trivia to know.
   

One of the major heat problems with the HA-460 and HA-410 is the short chassis height  and the cramming in of several high wattage resistors that generate a lot of heat and there is no adequate air circulation to vent out the heat.  Years ago a bought a laptop cooling pad from Amazon and my HA-460 or 410 would sit on it. I think I powered the cooling pad from a wall wart. Worked great to pull the heat out and keep drift to a minimum.

Last I heard, there is one Li'l Lulu receiver in Iowa, one in Michigan, one was destroyed and underneath a landfill, and the last one was somewhere in the Phoenix, AZ area(this one is old news (the original owner would be about 110 years of age now) so I really don't know). And added trivia, the designer Ed Ladd was sent the AZ receiver/transmitter combo for repair back in the late 80's and I had a hand in getting it back up and running.

The receiver was actually a work in progress; the designer couldn't decide on some circuitry, I think, relating to AGC components so he built three versions (2 of each type). He had several pre-orders for the receiver, so he requested feedback on performance, etc. so that he could hopefully decide on the final design.

Unfortunately, the final decision was to not move forward with further receiver manufacture and shortly thereafter, the transmitter was also discontinued.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

   When I bought my HA-460, I replaced all the electrolytics before powering it up, and immediately figured it'd be drifty, the way everything was jammed in there so tightly. The G-50, on the other hand, is quite roomy inside and easier to work on.
   On the good side, if you can live with the drift, the HA-460 has decent receive; doesn't need a crystal; and unlike most comparable rigs it uses a push-pull class-B modulator (with a phase-inverter driver, no less) instead of the more common Heising (not that I have anything against Heising).

Over the HA-460 and HA-410 life cycle in the U.S. two versions appeared. Both versions had changes in the type of audio output/modulator tubes used with some wiring and component changes. Trio never made any announcement as to why.
There was also a reported version, at least of a HA-460, that had a smaller physical chassis. I find it hard to visualize a smaller chassis given all the stuff they jammed into the size that we are familiar with.

The Zeus, Thor, and HA-460 are the only 6-meter AM rigs I can think of at the moment that don't use Heising. You might know of some others, Pete, with your impressive knowledge of classic rigs. It would be an interesting bit of radio trivia to know.

You might find it interesting trivia, but not high on my list of worthless things to remember.
  My wife use to say my mind was full of worthless things along with lots of good stuff 

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Well, I guess I can abandon my plans to find one working and two extra for ?parts? units. LOL
Tom

Depends on what it is 

[KD1SH]

Over the HA-460 and HA-410 life cycle in the U.S. two versions appeared. Both versions had changes in the type of audio output/modulator tubes used with some wiring and component changes. Trio never made any announcement as to why.
There was also a reported version, at least of a HA-460, that had a smaller physical chassis. I find it hard to visualize a smaller chassis given all the stuff they jammed into the size that we are familiar with.

It's like looking under the hood of a modern car. Even worse, I think, was the Utica 650, the shiny chrome 6-meter AM rig, but at least it had a matching external VFO so the thermal drift problem wasn't nearly as bad.

You might find it interesting trivia, but not high on my list of worthless things to remember.
  My wife use to say my mind was full of worthless things along with lots of good stuff 

Well, at least you do have a list of worthless things to remember; that's important.

[WB6NVH]

If the idea is just to get a temporary rig while you are working on the main one, and signal paths are decent, why not just use a Gonset Communicator II, III or IV? You wouldn't need to put a lot of work into one, just a couple capacitors and a cleaning usually. Of course, you need the crystal(s) unless you get the accessory VFO.

It is going to be a case of what finds you, more or less, rather than what you find. Unless money is no object.