120V LED pilot lamps Ba-9 bayonet

[Opcom]

Has anyone else have experience with 120V LED replacements in BA-9 miniature bayonet?

I recently replaced the Neon lamps in my transfer switch with LEDs. The neon-type pilot lamps, with BA-9 bases, include an internal resistor. These would seem to last only abput a year. The 'green' one, which was argon + internal phosphor, had also a short-ish life, plus it was more expensive. These look like any radio-type pilot lamp.

I'm not complaining about the prices so much, but the short lifespan and unreliability I believe I am seeing. The facts are that the transfer switch is an older relay-logic industrial type, and seldom needs attention. It needs to work when it is called upon, or at least allow manual operation if necessary. This includes the green 'normal' and orange 'emergency' power indicator lamps.

So, I pulled the pin and bought some RUIANDSION 120VAC BA-9 pilot lamps. 4 red and 4 green (no orange offered at this time). The fit in the sockets, but would not rotate to lock in. It turns out that the only unusual thing about them, a plastic ring intended to tell the color of the LED, was too thick to fit in the barrel of the heavy duty sockets in the transfer switch panel. How annoying. Removing the colored plastic ring solved the problem and all is well now.

It turns out, digging into the BA-9 (9mm) bayonet base lamps, that there is also a "T" number defining the diameter if the bulb glass itself, in eighths of an inch.
Many common miniature bayonet sockets with no insulating sleeve extending above the metal socket part shouldn't care about this.
The sockets in this older industrial gear fit only the lamps with a straight profile where the glass is the same or very nearly so, as the base portion. Not all sockets will have this ussue with the particular lamps, but it was annoying at first. The green one looks great in there. Unknown how long it will last, but we'll see.

These things were not too costly, but I wonder if there are others/cheaper 120VAC ones as well. It doesn't seem very common.
These were from 4 pcs. for $9 at amazon, https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08ZS5M81H?th=1 in case anyoine is looking for 120V LED lamps of this size.

[KA3EKH]

You know that the green light is somewhat pointless! If your standing there in the dark the shore power is off. Ok, just jerking your chain and know you need it to see when shore comes back to see if you have transferred back yet. Is that the mechanical 200 with the two motors that drive the contactors back and forth? Had a three phase 400 Kato at a transmitter site that was all mechanical and relay that was a primitive design but it worked, all of the old Onan relay-controlled ones tend to fail when you need them, but then again back in the old days Onan was the only company that I knew of that built a generator and transfer switch that was capable of killing its battery stopping while in operation. From what I recall they had battery chargers that would only charge a battery if it did not need to be charged.

[Opcom]

True it's not really needed if the lights are on. I like it because if an electrician or someone else called in my absence, it shows the equipment is live.

When it transfers either way, there's a loud Bang! from the solenoid-like linear motor that moves the 200A 3-pole switch over in an instant.

The motor's rated about 6KW, but consumes it for only a few milliseconds so the lights barely glitch when the power transfers back to the grid. (I'd have to go get the book to give the exact timing). At the end of each stoke there's some mechanism that shuts it off. It's a Zenith brand transfer switch.

[KD6VXI]

As an electrician, if you call one and they rely on an idiot light to say it's live or not, go get a new electrician.

Any electrician will yank a meter off the truck and verify.

Trust, but verify.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

[W6WAC]

To add to that, don't always trust your test leads either.  Test the meter in the ohm range first.

I'm in the electric shop here at work and we have 3 floors of equipment that have lots of idiot lights--100's, maybe 1000's.  If a light is on, something certainly has power.  If it's out, better get a meter to verify.  Even if we pull a disconnect switch or breaker, or both, to work on a piece of equipment, never assume the power has been totally removed.  If one 480v leg is live, could be disaster in waiting.

My observation with LED's, either in those bayonet style or soldered to a board, I found that they are being run to near their maximum ratings, probably just to get the light intensity out of them.  This has a drawback in that it shortens the life the LED.  We had changed the original incandescent bulbs in some of the indicators to LED and find they too were failing within a year.  They gave off a nice brightness within the indicator but I wondered if it was really necessary.  I dropped the current down to a third of what they were drawing (adding a dropping resistor of course).  The intensity did drop some but with those I had done this to are still working after several years.  Better than 95% of the indicators are 24 volt bulbs where the rest are 6 volt or 120 volt.  I never had issue with the 120 volt LED replacements as they are still working, but the 24's have been problematic in their lifespan unless the current draw is reduced.

The LED circuit board strips with 6 LED's used as backlights in the Exit signs here at work have a short life span of less than a year as well.  When replacing the LED's, I find they were using 56 ohm dropping resistors.  I replaced those resistors with values ranging from 100 to 470 and those strips lasted much longer without too much loss in intensity.

Scott

[W3SLK]

W6WAC said:

To add to that, don't always trust your test leads either.  Test the meter in the ohm range first.

I'm in the electric shop here at work and we have 3 floors of equipment that have lots of idiot lights--100's, maybe 1000's.  If a light is on, something certainly has power.  If it's out, better get a meter to verify.  Even if we pull a disconnect switch or breaker, or both, to work on a piece of equipment, never assume the power has been totally removed.  If one 480v leg is live, could be disaster in waiting.

My observation with LED's, either in those bayonet style or soldered to a board, I found that they are being run to near their maximum ratings, probably just to get the light intensity out of them.  This has a drawback in that it shortens the life the LED.  We had changed the original incandescent bulbs in some of the indicators to LED and find they too were failing within a year.  They gave off a nice brightness within the indicator but I wondered if it was really necessary.  I dropped the current down to a third of what they were drawing (adding a dropping resistor of course).  The intensity did drop some but with those I had done this to are still working after several years.  Better than 95% of the indicators are 24 volt bulbs where the rest are 6 volt or 120 volt.  I never had issue with the 120 volt LED replacements as they are still working, but the 24's have been problematic in their lifespan unless the current draw is reduced.

The LED circuit board strips with 6 LED's used as backlights in the Exit signs here at work have a short life span of less than a year as well.  When replacing the LED's, I find they were using 56 ohm dropping resistors.  I replaced those resistors with values ranging from 100 to 470 and those strips lasted much longer without too much loss in intensity.

Well added Scott. For 25 years I worked as an instrument tech, 5 years after that I became a shift mechanic which made an electrician, (not that I was qualified by any stretch!). One of the things I learned about LED technology is that they have a half-life same as an electroluminescence panel. After X hours of use, their output would be very dim. Including those LED strips on the EXIT lighting signs. The technology is much better today but there are still some lacking. I always hated pulling disconnects. We had to wear heavy PPE before pulling a bucket. Sometimes we had to disconnect at the substation. Never any fun!

[Opcom]

As an electrician, if you call one and they rely on an idiot light to say it's live or not, go get a new electrician.

Any electrician will yank a meter off the truck and verify.

Trust, but verify.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI

The only electricians I've ever called must have been fake electricians. They were caught smoking a marijuana cigarette in my garage. One climbed a metal ladder to connect the mains whip and rode the lightning. Fortunately was not injured by the fall either.

I have no idea how to tell, before paying for them to show up anyway, whether an electrican's on the level or not.

[KB2WIG]

Maybe Shane will comment. My advice contact your local IBEW - International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, and see watt they say.

Worth a try,
KLC

[w8khk]

W6WAC said:

To add to that, don't always trust your test leads either.  Test the meter in the ohm range first.

I'm in the electric shop here at work and we have 3 floors of equipment that have lots of idiot lights--100's, maybe 1000's.  If a light is on, something certainly has power.  If it's out, better get a meter to verify.  Even if we pull a disconnect switch or breaker, or both, to work on a piece of equipment, never assume the power has been totally removed.  If one 480v leg is live, could be disaster in waiting. ............snip

Scott and Mike, your words are so true and important.  I went back to my archive photo file to share evidence that this can also happen on the home front, and how important it is to NEVER trust a breaker or a disconnect.  Verify your meter's functionality, then test to make sure the circuit is not live before touching anything.

I was about to replace the run capacitor and contactor in my central A/C condenser unit outside.  The contactor in the outside unit only breaks one leg of the 240 line, but the knife switch (disconnect) SHOULD break both legs.  I shut off the disconnect, which is a double-knife switch, over 50 years old and very sloppily wired.  Very unsafe situation......

Have a look at the attached photos.  The fiber link between the lever and the knife switch is broken on the left side, so while the right side disconnected completely, the left side remained fully connected.  An accident waiting to happen!

Not trusting another knife switch, I chose a different solution.  You can see in the other two photos a disconnect which has a removable plug, providing a sure means of disconnect.  While working on the appliance, the plug may be stored in your pocket, so no one may re-insert it unbeknownst to you.  (A poor man's lockout and tagout, if you will.)  But it is still prudent to pull out the meter and do a final check before inserting fingers....