Gates 250GY Story

[Steve W8TOW]

Hi guys, well, I got my newly acquired Gates 250GY home...
But my elation was short lived...

http://www.msu.edu/~wb9tow/250GY.html
73 steve
w8tow

[2ZE]

Well,
Sounds like some valuable lessons learned the hard way.
 Check out SYQ's 21E adventure in East Coast sound, thats the ultimate in measuring twice and cutting once. Also, it helps to aquaint yourself with Pythagorian therum, then you can determine the longest lenght when the rig gets tipped up from its belly. Also, if your going to get aquainted with B'cash rigs, an investment in a come along, a 1 ton dolly (4 wheels) and a 10' foot piece of schedule 40 steel pipe cut into 4 pieces will be worth it! Also a large pry bar is useful as well.
 However, since you already have the rig in the garage, any way to convince the XYL to keep it there and you can remote control it from there? Check out N3WWL's website about my former Raytheon, and how Jay is remoting his, very interesting and ingenious!
 Sorry to hear of your misfortunes, but all is not lost, thats fer sure!

Mike, 2ZE

[Steve W8TOW]

Thanks Mike but even Pythagus would have had a headache over this one!
The 250GY left the QTH already...destined for another shack with more headroom!
My next BC rig will just have to be shorter....
dit dit dit dah!
73 steve

[2ZE]

Too bad...
If you can find one.....
Gates made a 250 watt tx that used a pair of 812's modulated by a pair of 811's. It was built as a low cost standby option for stations that may have had like a Collins 300G or similar. It stands about 4 feet tall and weighed in at a paltry 500 lbs. I cannot remember the model number, but the only one I have ever seen is in backup service at one of my OM's stations in Oswego, NY. A rare bird indeed!

[Mike/W8BAC]

Hi Mike,

Are you referring to the Gates Vanguard? I think I saw a request in Electric Radio a few years ago from somebody looking for information about that one.

That transmitter, unfortunately, earned a fairly bad reputation. Very problematic. I'm attaching a bit of a thread from a recant post on the Broadcast BBS that started out asking "What Was The Worlds Worst Transmitter". The Vanguard was very high on the experts list.

Mike
W8BAC


Even 40 years ago I thought they looked like the incinerator in our back
yard when I was growing up.  I understand they operated in a similar way.

Burt

At 10:00 PM 3/18/05 -0800, you wrote:
>Subject: Re: [BC] Boring Transmitters
>To: Broadcast Radio Mailing List <broadcast at radiolists.net>
>Message-ID: <423B6803.3770.AC205694 at localhost>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>On 18 Mar 2005 at 22:54, Alan Alsobrook wrote:
>
> > I don't think I have seen a Gates Vanguard,
>
>He means the Vanguard I, (0-1kW) the first linear
>single tube with SS exciter and 30% efficiency. It
>had a sort of low profile console cabinet that stood
>about 4' high with slanted control panel on top with
>vertical meter panel at rear. Quite futuristic for
>40 years ago. The Vanguard II mostly worked and
>was housed in a standard 1kW cabinet same as BC-1H.
>
>Phil Alexander, CSRE
>Broadcast Engineering Services and Technology
>(a Div. of Advanced Parts Corporation)
>Ph. (317) 335-2065   FAX (317) 335-9037

Burt I. Weiner Associates
Broadcast Technical Services
Glendale, California  U.S.A.
biwa at earthlink.net
K6OQK

[W8ER]

Too bad...
If you can find one.....
Gates made a 250 watt tx that used a pair of 812's modulated by a pair of 811's. It was built as a low cost standby option for stations that may have had like a Collins 300G or similar. It stands about 4 feet tall and weighed in at a paltry 500 lbs. I cannot remember the model number, but the only one I have ever seen is in backup service at one of my OM's stations in Oswego, NY. A rare bird indeed!

Mike,

There is one in ham service, believe it or not! I think the call is K4VL. Mike WN3B picked up a Gates 250 from him and in one of the pictures I saw it. It was really gorgeous and just the right size for a ham shack. Like you said .. if you can find one .. then the problem is talking the guy out of it!

--Larry ER

[Steve W8TOW]

There was a MI ham a couple of years ago with a GATES SW TX...this used a pair of 812A's x 811A's....this model worked well and reallly looked nice too...
I am also researching a RCA 250 watt model that was a bit shorter and not as wide as a 250GY.... but I can't find out the model nr...any ideas?
73 steve

[Paul, K2ORC]

Here's a pic of Vanguard with the hood up from Barry Mishkind's website.  
http://www.oldradio.com

[Steve W8TOW]

Interesting pix...
I think Gates made yet another MW BC TX using 812's....this was class C
rf...19" rack or so....
no idea what the model was...
73 steve

[2ZE]

Mike, BAC:
Not the Vanguard, but a different model that was only 250 watts. The Vanguard believe it or not is actually a 1Kw, but a piece of crap. Thats why they are rare, nobody was stupid enough to buy one. The little 250 watter was designed especially for standby service in case your main went down for an extended period of time. Thats how Gates marketed it.
Pretty rare tx, and impossible to talk someone out of. Not many were sold, and the one's that were, many were tossed into dumpsters because when you strip out the iron and chassis, 1 man can lift into a trasheap.
The only other gates 250 is the earlier model Gates 250 C1. Same lineup as the GY (810'sx810's). I believe the the cabinet is wider, but 6" shorter and not as deep. I think you could slide it inside upright, but the door needs to be 36" into the shack.
Also Steve, don't forget; many of these transmitters run on 240VAC not 120VAC. Install 240 service from your electrical panel.

[Steve W8TOW]

Oh ya, 240 VAC has been there since I built the shack 2 years ago...all ready  running my HB on 240 vac...no more line voltage sag!
73 steve

[VA3ES - Piss-Weak Ed]

Yep, and that's why my own BTA1R3 lives in my garage. It's 84 inches tall. No way it's going to fit either through the door to the house, or down the stairs, or even in the basement.  On the other hand, my BTA1S is only 6'6" tall, resides in a 19" rack, and the side panels come off.  Easy! (Phew!)

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Wow Steve - sorry to hear about the problems. I seem to recall that GE or WE (maybe RCA?) made a small(er) 250 watt rig, about the size of a refigerator. Maybe that would be the ticket?

Between the two of us we could probably write a good book about the "DON'T's" of moving BC transmitters. Two summers ago my dad and I made a 5 day/5K mile round trip from VT out to the 4 corners area of Colorado to pick up Barry Wiseman's 300G. I spent a lot of time planning, even brought pipes and 2x4s along for loading. Barry already had the iron out, side panels off, and one helper as well when we got there, so loading didn't go too badly. It rolled right along the pipes into the trailer once we got it laid down. We tied it in nice and snug right on the pipes to facilitate removal. Guess what? No one thought about it sliding sideways on the pipes! Fortunately no damage was done (thanks to judicious padding), but I recall feeling the trailer snap around as we went up through Wolf Creek Pass.  :oops:

After letting it sit in the trailer for a couple days at home, dad and I unloaded it with the pipes, right into the front foyer. Added some H.D. casters then got KC1BT, W1RC and my dad to come back over a few weeks later for a tipping party to stand it up. Doorways from the foyer into the rest of the house weren't wide enough to let it through as it sat, but the floor in the foyer wasn't stout enough to leave it there, either. Sooooo... removed the front door from the transmitter and just squeaked it through into the livingroom. Wide doorway into the dining room, so no problems moving it into there. But that's where it will stay. Side panels and front door are back on, need to get the big ceramic coil reinstalled that I messed up while trying to remove a zorchmark (another big DON'T), find a source for that black HV wire on the oil filled caps (hacked up when someone added a Gates unit to regulate the power), reinstall the iron, and give her some juice. 240v into the dining room...hmmm...did I mention that I'm not married?

So it looks like I'll be running all of the wiring from the mixing console in the radio room down into the basement and back up in the dining room about 30 feet away. Not quite like Jay's closed-circuit TV set up, but along those lines. It's an old house with high ceilings, and I even had the measurements beforehand. Guess I wanted it so badly I just imagined it had to fit?

Here's hoping the next move goes better for both of us!

~ Todd,  'KAQ

[Steve W8TOW]

WOW Todd, you made me feel soooooo much better!
But gee, a 300G, what a nice rig...
congrats on getting it at least inside...
Our living room has a 20 ft tall vaulted ceiling, I wish I had my camera ready for a picture of my xyl when I suggested putting it in there!
Gosh honey, I was only joking...really!


vri 73 and may we find some smaller TX...
steve

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

'Tis true. I heard that guy on 40 meters once. He was running a D-104 straight into a low-Z broadcast mixer board and them into the transmitter. Needless to say, it didn't sound like a broadcast rig. :cry:

Too bad...
If you can find one.....
Gates made a 250 watt tx that used a pair of 812's modulated by a pair of 811's. It was built as a low cost standby option for stations that may have had like a Collins 300G or similar. It stands about 4 feet tall and weighed in at a paltry 500 lbs. I cannot remember the model number, but the only one I have ever seen is in backup service at one of my OM's stations in Oswego, NY. A rare bird indeed!

Mike,

There is one in ham service, believe it or not! I think the call is K4VL. Mike WN3B picked up a Gates 250 from him and in one of the pictures I saw it. It was really gorgeous and just the right size for a ham shack. Like you said .. if you can find one .. then the problem is talking the guy out of it!

--Larry ER