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Author Topic: Clegg Zeus - Design changes - Need newer schematic  (Read 5300 times)
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wx3k
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« on: February 04, 2021, 08:39:53 PM »

Hello !

Its been awhile since I have posted here...Been working on my Clegg Zeus...RF stages are working great....The replacement meter is working great.....120 watts output. That is good. What is not good is I have not GREAT modulation. Actually the modulation is nearly nonexistent. Something is hosed. Taking the troubleshooting step by step...Tubes are good. Just replaced an old dual section cap in the -80v power supply section. Almost put them in backwards....DOTE ! All good. Caught my mistake midstream. Going to do some signal tracing next stage by stage. I have a good mic.

I note on the schematic I have has 3H7 ballast tubes which are absent from my power supply. I also note a series coupling cap in the mic line that is missing and is shown on the schematic I have,

Anyone have a NEWER schematic ?
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Stephanie WX3K
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2021, 10:39:33 AM »

This is the only manual & schematic I ever came up with on the Zeus. Perhaps someone on QRZ has done some updating if no one here can help you?

Let me know if this is better than what you have been looking at? If not, I promise not to cry Grin Grin Grin

Terry




* CLEGG ZEUS MANUAL(1).pdf (3787.96 KB - downloaded 157 times.)
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2021, 12:20:19 PM »

Hi, Stephanie,
    Glad to see another Zeus owner on the forum! I got my Zeus manual from https://www.manualman.com/ and it was exactly correct for my Zeus, and as perfectly legible and clear as the original would have been. Not free, but his price is very reasonable. Not sure if he legally owns the rights, but to me it would be neither ethical nor honorable for me to scan the schematic and post it here, but I think you'll find his price very fair and the money well spent.
   Good luck -


Hello !

Its been awhile since I have posted here...Been working on my Clegg Zeus...RF stages are working great....The replacement meter is working great.....120 watts output. That is good. What is not good is I have not GREAT modulation. Actually the modulation is nearly nonexistent. Something is hosed. Taking the troubleshooting step by step...Tubes are good. Just replaced an old dual section cap in the -80v power supply section. Almost put them in backwards....DOTE ! All good. Caught my mistake midstream. Going to do some signal tracing next stage by stage. I have a good mic.

I note on the schematic I have has 3H7 ballast tubes which are absent from my power supply. I also note a series coupling cap in the mic line that is missing and is shown on the schematic I have,

Anyone have a NEWER schematic ?
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2021, 05:35:18 PM »

I look at it this way, These manuals are real old stuff that is free to all to use and download. There was no copyright attached on the copy I provided. I doubt that most manual people own the rights to most of what they sell and I have no problem with that. I too have purchased manuals that I could not otherwise find for free on the internet. The manuals that I purchased rarely if ever have a no copy provision as their terms of sale.Therefore no one should have any guilt when viewing a copy of anything not covered by a copyright. 
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KD1SH
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2021, 06:05:27 PM »

   Well, the manuals provided by ManualMan - and I've purchased a number of them over the years - don't appear to have any statements as to copying; same for his website, and I strongly doubt that anyone providing such a service could legally own the material. That being said, my personal feeling is that whoever owns the ManualMan business is providing the amateur community with a valuable service, and probably making precious little profit by it. He provides not just a simple downloadable copy, but an actual printed hard-copy product much improved over most of the free download stuff available on the web. I suspect that, rather than doing a simple scan, he's doing some sort of OCR on the textual content, and it's nicely done and printed on good quality paper with a decent binding. It's simply out of respect for this gentleman and his efforts that I can't in good conscious turn around and post it on the web for free. But, your mileage may vary, as they say, and I won't judge.

I look at it this way, These manuals are real old stuff that is free to all to use and download. There was no copyright attached on the copy I provided. I doubt that most manual people own the rights to most of what they sell and I have no problem with that. I too have purchased manuals that I could not otherwise find for free on the internet. The manuals that I purchased rarely if ever have a no copy provision as their terms of sale.Therefore no one should have any guilt when viewing a copy of anything not covered by a copyright. 
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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2021, 06:33:47 PM »

Hello !

Its been awhile since I have posted here...Been working on my Clegg Zeus...RF stages are working great....The replacement meter is working great.....120 watts output. That is good. What is not good is I have not GREAT modulation. Actually the modulation is nearly nonexistent. Something is hosed. Taking the troubleshooting step by step...Tubes are good. Just replaced an old dual section cap in the -80v power supply section. Almost put them in backwards....DOTE ! All good. Caught my mistake midstream. Going to do some signal tracing next stage by stage. I have a good mic.

I note on the schematic I have has 3H7 ballast tubes which are absent from my power supply. I also note a series coupling cap in the mic line that is missing and is shown on the schematic I have,

Anyone have a NEWER schematic ?

The ballast tubes are used to provide filament voltage regulation to the VFO tube (V1) 6BK7B. Are the tubes and sockets missing (empty holes (no holes) in chassis? If so, where are the filaments of this tube connected?
Every schematic I have shows the ballast tubes, although the schematics say 3H11 whereas the parts list 3H7.

The schematic that Terry posted is a very early one. Note name Climaster Zeus in the title. This original manual was also done on mimeograph-type paper. The name Climaster Zeus was changed to Clegg Zeus shortly after production started.
However, the power supply/modulator is significant because it shows the push-to-talk circuitry which, for whatever reason, was omitted on the later schematic.
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« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2021, 06:51:23 PM »

Hello KD1SH, I wholeheartedly agree with everything you have said.

73

Terry
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« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2021, 07:02:33 PM »

  Well, the manuals provided by ManualMan - and I've purchased a number of them over the years - don't appear to have any statements as to copying; same for his website, and I strongly doubt that anyone providing such a service could legally own the material. That being said, my personal feeling is that whoever owns the ManualMan business is providing the amateur community with a valuable service, and probably making precious little profit by it. He provides not just a simple downloadable copy, but an actual printed hard-copy product much improved over most of the free download stuff available on the web. I suspect that, rather than doing a simple scan, he's doing some sort of OCR on the textual content, and it's nicely done and printed on good quality paper with a decent binding. It's simply out of respect for this gentleman and his efforts that I can't in good conscious turn around and post it on the web for free. But, your mileage may vary, as they say, and I won't judge.

Not to derail Stephanie's thread but a quick clarification:
Ed Clegg provided me with much of this Clegg related equipment documents and internal documents(information they used on the factory floor) and full replication privileges. At the age of 15 I even had a tour of the Clegg manufacturing location where they were assembling the Clegg Zeus transmitter, Clegg Interceptor receiver, and the Clegg 99'er AM transceiver. Ed and I later connected in the late 80's and early 90's.

I do NOT provide any downloadable copies of the manuals I list on my web site. Everything I list on the web site means I have at least one original (sometimes more) to work from. I went "green" years ago and the paper is very specialized recycled material that you can't buy in your local retail store.
----------------------------------------
NOW back to Stephanie's thread
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KD1SH
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« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2021, 07:20:02 PM »

Well smack me in the head with a ten pound plate transformer - you're ManualMan? I really didn't know that! That's a cool thing.

  Well, the manuals provided by ManualMan - and I've purchased a number of them over the years - don't appear to have any statements as to copying; same for his website, and I strongly doubt that anyone providing such a service could legally own the material. That being said, my personal feeling is that whoever owns the ManualMan business is providing the amateur community with a valuable service, and probably making precious little profit by it. He provides not just a simple downloadable copy, but an actual printed hard-copy product much improved over most of the free download stuff available on the web. I suspect that, rather than doing a simple scan, he's doing some sort of OCR on the textual content, and it's nicely done and printed on good quality paper with a decent binding. It's simply out of respect for this gentleman and his efforts that I can't in good conscious turn around and post it on the web for free. But, your mileage may vary, as they say, and I won't judge.

Not to derail Stephanie's thread but a quick clarification:
Ed Clegg provided me with much of this Clegg related equipment documents and internal documents(information they used on the factory floor) and full replication privileges. At the age of 15 I even had a tour of the Clegg manufacturing location where they were assembling the Clegg Zeus transmitter, Clegg Interceptor receiver, and the Clegg 99'er AM transceiver. Ed and I later connected in the late 80's and early 90's.

I do NOT provide any downloadable copies of the manuals I list on my web site. Everything I list on the web site means I have at least one original (sometimes more) to work from. I went "green" years ago and the paper is very specialized recycled material that you can't buy in your local retail store.
----------------------------------------
NOW back to Stephanie's thread
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"Gosh, Batman, I never knew there were no punctuation marks in alphabet soup!"
—Robin, in the 1960's Batman TV series.
wx3k
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2021, 12:05:54 AM »

Hello !

Its been awhile since I have posted here...Been working on my Clegg Zeus...RF stages are working great....The replacement meter is working great.....120 watts output. That is good. What is not good is I have not GREAT modulation. Actually the modulation is nearly nonexistent. Something is hosed. Taking the troubleshooting step by step...Tubes are good. Just replaced an old dual section cap in the -80v power supply section. Almost put them in backwards....DOTE ! All good. Caught my mistake midstream. Going to do some signal tracing next stage by stage. I have a good mic.

I note on the schematic I have has 3H7 ballast tubes which are absent from my power supply. I also note a series coupling cap in the mic line that is missing and is shown on the schematic I have,

Anyone have a NEWER schematic ?

The ballast tubes are used to provide filament voltage regulation to the VFO tube (V1) 6BK7B. Are the tubes and sockets missing (empty holes (no holes) in chassis? If so, where are the filaments of this tube connected?
Every schematic I have shows the ballast tubes, although the schematics say 3H11 whereas the parts list 3H7.

>>>>>>>>>yes the sockets are missing. There is a small xfmr mounted and connected there supplying the VFO tube now. Not sure why that is the case. I am going to check PS voltages. Just replaced the old selenium rectifier today.


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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2021, 01:15:18 AM »

>>>>>>>>>yes the sockets are missing. There is a small xfmr mounted and connected there supplying the VFO tube now. Not sure why that is the case. I am going to check PS voltages. Just replaced the old selenium rectifier today.

So are there no holes in the chassis for where the two ballast tubes would be located?
Ed's point for using the ballast tubes was to provide filament regulation to keep the VFO rock solid. Using a transformer to provide filament voltage, if that's the case, doesn't provide any regulation.
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2021, 02:55:18 AM »

assuming the manual is correct,
There's a 20V winding for the relays and also to supply the VFO heater.
In series with the load is a parallel arrangement of two 3H11 ballasts.
These supply 6.3VAC @ 1.8A total to two parallell connected 27 Ohm resistors and one 6BX7 heater.

3-H-11 BALLAST $12.00
https://vacuumtubes.net/Prices%20Ballasts.htm

I thought those Cleggs had 3H7, but I see 3H11s mentioned.

Well worth it to buy a couple of ballasts for the stability, and also replace the missing sockets. Someone did a crummy hack removing those. - and why not get a couple of spares, they are not common.
Also check those 27 ohm resistors. They are only 2W and run mighty close to it I bet.

The alternatives to replacing the 3H11s are to:
1.) leave the unregulated situation in place,
2.) revert to a 7.61 Ohm 24.7W resistor in place of the ballasts. still unregulated.
3.) build up a 1.8A current regulator on a big heatsink and surround it by a bridge rectifier since the 20V supply is AC. PITA.

Unfortunately the 3H11 data is not shown in the book below, but it has value for many others and for study of ballast tubes in general
https://archive.org/details/ballasttubehandbookjacobi



my 2 cents on manualman and other competitors: best to have a good quality complete manual from him or another good vendor, than squint and cuss at a crummy internet copy. I'm willing to pay for quality. The physically large pages also make a big difference when there are schematics on paper. Therefore I have bought many and I always check manualman because I have always been satisfied with the product.

I do scan them so I can read/study on my own private terminals wherever I am.
I prefer to use the paper manuals when physically working on equipment.

On the manuals I have bought from re-print vendors for my use, I do not post those on the web because I am supporting the people who make the good quality copies of manuals available. I noticed manualman offers binding which is a plus as an option because sometimes I prefer to build multiple manuals into a folder of my own for a specific set of gear and sometimes I want a single manual bound more nicely.
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wx3k
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« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2021, 06:14:08 PM »

Thanks for the advice !  Smiley  I think I will reinstall these. I have seen the VFO drift around a bit

assuming the manual is correct,
There's a 20V winding for the relays and also to supply the VFO heater.
In series with the load is a parallel arrangement of two 3H11 ballasts.
These supply 6.3VAC @ 1.8A total to two parallell connected 27 Ohm resistors and one 6BX7 heater.

3-H-11 BALLAST $12.00
https://vacuumtubes.net/Prices%20Ballasts.htm

I thought those Cleggs had 3H7, but I see 3H11s mentioned.

Well worth it to buy a couple of ballasts for the stability, and also replace the missing sockets. Someone did a crummy hack removing those. - and why not get a couple of spares, they are not common.
Also check those 27 ohm resistors. They are only 2W and run mighty close to it I bet.

The alternatives to replacing the 3H11s are to:
1.) leave the unregulated situation in place,
2.) revert to a 7.61 Ohm 24.7W resistor in place of the ballasts. still unregulated.
3.) build up a 1.8A current regulator on a big heatsink and surround it by a bridge rectifier since the 20V supply is AC. PITA.

Unfortunately the 3H11 data is not shown in the book below, but it has value for many others and for study of ballast tubes in general
https://archive.org/details/ballasttubehandbookjacobi



my 2 cents on manualman and other competitors: best to have a good quality complete manual from him or another good vendor, than squint and cuss at a crummy internet copy. I'm willing to pay for quality. The physically large pages also make a big difference when there are schematics on paper. Therefore I have bought many and I always check manualman because I have always been satisfied with the product.

I do scan them so I can read/study on my own private terminals wherever I am.
I prefer to use the paper manuals when physically working on equipment.

On the manuals I have bought from re-print vendors for my use, I do not post those on the web because I am supporting the people who make the good quality copies of manuals available. I noticed manualman offers binding which is a plus as an option because sometimes I prefer to build multiple manuals into a folder of my own for a specific set of gear and sometimes I want a single manual bound more nicely.

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Stephanie WX3K
Eico 720/722/730  HRO50T
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« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2021, 07:47:59 PM »

"Going back to the 3H7 question that I asked in a earlier post - you say the sockets are missing but are the holes in the chassis for them there? You seem to imply that you thought there was a "newer" schematic to cover the fact that the 3H7's weren't there. I'm trying to determine if the cart came before or after the horse."

Yes, the sockets are missing but the holes in the chassis are there SO, all I need to do is put sockets back in. I hope the power transformer winding for this is ok though. Need to check that.


>>>>>>>>>yes the sockets are missing. There is a small xfmr mounted and connected there supplying the VFO tube now. Not sure why that is the case. I am going to check PS voltages. Just replaced the old selenium rectifier today.

So are there no holes in the chassis for where the two ballast tubes would be located?
Ed's point for using the ballast tubes was to provide filament regulation to keep the VFO rock solid. Using a transformer to provide filament voltage, if that's the case, doesn't provide any regulation.
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Stephanie WX3K
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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2021, 04:33:14 PM »

[quote author=pete, wa2cwa
"Going back to the 3H7 question that I asked in a earlier post - you say the sockets are missing but are the holes in the chassis for them there? You seem to imply that you thought there was a "newer" schematic to cover the fact that the 3H7's weren't there. I'm trying to determine if the cart came before or after the horse."

Quote
Yes, the sockets are missing but the holes in the chassis are there SO, all I need to do is put sockets back in. I hope the power transformer winding for this is ok though. Need to check that.

So, most likely, the schematic you have is still valid. Previous owner just removed the regulation tubes and sockets, maybe even the two resistors (R333 and R336). Transformer secondary, if working, should be 20 volts AC. Obviously, with today's semiconductors, supplying a regulated voltage to the oscillator filament is not a difficult task.
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