Help me ID this receiver...

[W8KHZ]

Hi all,

I picked up this receiver at a swap today. It is a full featured communication receiver with crystal filter. Some aspects of the receiver seem homebrew, other aspects look commercial in build quality and materials. Maybe a kit? Maybe the builder was just really good at his craft? I have some vague recollection of seeing a homebrew receiver that resembled this with the Millen dials on the front described in one of the old handbooks but can't seem to find it. There are no tags on the receiver that I can find. Does anyone have an idea what I have?

Thanks!

Brian - W8KHZ

[KA2DZT]

Looks like an RME receiver of some type.  Those dials I think were the type they used.  I think I see a lip along the bottom front that is another RME style. Someone here may know more.

Fred

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Some of the insides match an RME69 but yours has the all seeing eye, and don't recall any RME equipment using one of those.

RME69:




Further, look at your bottom view, front side. Looks like a new panel, dials and new knobs were added to your unit. Left and right sides on the inside chassis, shows two empty holes on your receiver. Now look at the front of my posted RME69 picture. There is a jack mounted on one side and a toggle switch mounted on the other side.



Still looks like a modified RME-69 but why change the meter to an eye tube.

[n1ps]

The RME70 is close.  Same style and meters....except the 70 shown in the Moore book has a S meter.

p

[W8KHZ]

I am curious how it compares to an RME-9D. I can't find a good inside photo though. I looked carefully and it does not appear that the receiver I have ever had a meter, only the eye tube. Also, the Millen dials appear to be original. No signs that they are replacements.  I'm convinced that this is an RME of some sort... maybe a prototype? Close inspection revealed details such as tube shield bases riveted to the chassis, wiring harness professionally laced, etc. I no longer believe this is homebrewed. It will be interesting to get the opinions of the receiver gurus here at amfone!


Brian - W8KHZ

[W3GMS]

Brian,

My vote is that its an RME.  The owner and founder of RME told me way back in 1982 at an AWA converntion, when I asked him why no labels on his early receiver, and his reply was "any Ham worth their salt would know what the various controls were and no need to label them!   

Now to find the exact model of which RME it was.  As you said, it may have been a prototype.  Does it work? 

Joe-W3GMS   

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I am curious how it compares to an RME-9D. I can't find a good inside photo though. I looked carefully and it does not appear that the receiver I have ever had a meter, only the eye tube. Also, the Millen dials appear to be original. No signs that they are replacements.  I'm convinced that this is an RME of some sort... maybe a prototype? Close inspection revealed details such as tube shield bases riveted to the chassis, wiring harness professionally laced, etc. I no longer believe this is homebrewed. It will be interesting to get the opinions of the receiver gurus here at amfone!

Brian - W8KHZ

If it was a 9D it would have 9 tubes, the audio output tube would be a 2A5, and would have 5 bands (.54-22 MHz).
If it was a 69 it would have 9 tubes, the audio output tube would be a 42, and would have 6 bands (.55-32 MHz).
If it was a 70, it would have 11 tubes, chrome strips on the front panel, knob control labeling, and visible screws holding the two dials in place.

I still say the front panel is a replacement. Notice the two small countersunk holes under the top left and right knobs which really don't line up to anything. The Millen-type dials were probably added and maybe after mounting them, there wasn't enough physical front panel room to mount an S-meter between them.

[Carl WA1KPD]

What a cool radio. It seems to have 7 tubes. There were several other west coast manufacturers at that time. I agree with Pete, I t looks like the front panel is a replacement.
I think you had better send it out here for investigation!

Carl
WA1KPD

[w8khk]

This thread has piqued my interest to study more on the various RME-69 configurations.  Attached (i hope)  are a couple pictures of an RME-69 I purchased at Dayton, I think in 2006, still to be restored.  In a later post I will try to share pics of my dad's original RME-69, with notable differences.

It seems mostly original, with several exceptions.  The meter is obviously a replacement, with the bezel modified to fit it the available space in the dial cut-out.  There are several extra holes in the panel, and at the top left is a toggle switch which originally contained a pot with a switch.  The power and output transformers have been replaced, but I am not sure about the filter choke.  The space where the component was removed on top of the chassis used to be an electrolytic capacitor.

Notice the front panel has a toggle switch at the bottom right, and a headphone jack at the lower left.  In this receiver, and several pictures I have seen on the web, the holes for these components in the panel are about the size required for a standard octal socket.  See this link:

http://www.qsl.net/k5bcq/RME/RME.html

 It appears the panel is held in place only by the four bolts to the chassis, and the four holding it in the cabinet.  Is it possible they used larger holes so that the nuts to hold the switch and jack could be mounted, then the panel attached later, to simplify production process? 

The ridge normally seen at the bottom of the panel is actually part of the bottom of the cabinet.

Here is another link on AMFone regarding an RME-69 restoration which may have some helpful information:

http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=35379.0

All the RME-69 receivers I have seen have had the cast-aluminum chassis.  Looking at the pictures Brian posted, it appears there are holes in the chassis for the toggle switch and headphone jack, but no holes in the panel.  This would lead me to believe that either this is a modified, replacement front panel, or perhaps a prototype prior to manufacturing release of the RME-69.  I recall National used the "magic eye" tube in their earlier NC-100 and NC-101 series of receivers, while the later ones used an S-meter.  The same might be true of the RME, but those with the magic eye may never have made it to production.  Just speculation on my part. 

Another thing that makes me wonder about the vintage is the pic that Pete posted showed rectangular IF transformers, while Brian's had round IF cans.  Both my RME-69 and my dad's purchased new in 1935 had round cans.  I know that earlier HRO 5-series receivers used round cans, and later ones used rectangular IF transformers.  This makes me wonder if Millen sourced some of the parts for both National and RME?

I also noticed that all the iron (power transformer, output transformer, and filter choke) in the factory RME were painted a silver gray, while some of those that have replacements have the black painted iron.  Notice also that the output transformer on the production unit is mounted 90 degrees from the power transformer orientation, probably to reduce hum pickup.

[w8khk]

Here are a couple photos of my dad's (W2DU) RME-69 purchased new in 1935.

The two switches on the bottom left of the panel were mods my grandfather, (W8YNG) added.

Notice this unit also has round IF transformers, and the iron is painted silver gray.

The interesting thing here is that the panel has holes for the headphone jack and toggle switch just large enough to fit these components, and the nut is on the outside of the panel, while almost every other picture of the RME-69 I have seen has the octal tube socket sized holes for these two components.

In my mind, it is clearly obvious that Brian's receiver is manufactured by RME, but it is not clear whether this might be an early prototype, or a modification after purchase.  It looks like it uses the Millen dials, so I would think it is likely an early prototype, very rare indeed.

[WB6NVH]

I have some of those Millen vernier dials and they are modern plastic and date from the 1950's, suggesting the item wasn't available much earlier than that.  They should be in some of the Millen ads in the old ARRL handbooks, which might narrow down the date a bit. 

My RME 69 also has the round IF transformer cans.   The round skirt knobs on this one look like BC-610 tuning unit knobs.

I'll vote for an RME-9 or 69 as what the basis of this one was.

[WA2SQQ]

This definitely looks like an RME-69. I found seceral references, though none show the magic eye tube. One reference does say, "now with a calibrated meter."
Did the RME-69's predecessor have a magic eye tube?

http://www.qsl.net/k5bcq/RME/RME.html
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio/30s/Radio-1938-01.pdf Page 99 & Contd
http://www.radioblvd.com/Pre-WWII%20Ham%20Gear.htm
http://www.clarisonus.com/Archives/Ham%20Radio/Newark%201937%20Ham%20Radio%20Flyer.pdf

http://www.richardmcwhorter.com/vacuumtuberadio/The%20Vacuum%20Tube%20Shortwave%20Radio.pdf
Password: allamericanfiveradio

[Joe Connor]

One thing you can do to see if it's RME is to look under the chassis at the cans and the underside of the chassis. See if you can see any initials. Apparently, the RME employee who built the set often wrote his initials to show his pride in his work product. Here's a good article by Al Klase giving more information. After reading Al's article, I checked and my RME69 has these initials.

http://www.skywaves.ar88.net/commrx/RME/RME%20Article.pdf

[W8KHZ]

This has been a really interesting discussion and exercise in detective work! I want to thank everyone who took the time to lend their thoughts on this. I am now convinced that it is in fact an early RME-69 that someone replaced the front panel, dials, knobs and incorporated an eye tube in place of the meter along with a few other modifications. I can only imagine why so much rework was done on this receiver. None of the changes or modifications appear at all recent. One of those mysteries I guess. This receiver reminds me of a homebrew DX-100 I used to have... Amazing resemblance to a real DX-100 but was without a doubt all homebrew.

Brian - W8KHZ

[WA2SQQ]

I agree, this research was most interesting. Thanks to all for sharing

[WBear2GCR]

...most buzzardly, indeed!

[KA3EKH]

I recognize the W8khk receiver as the one I sold in Dayton back around 2006! I came by that radio a couple years earlier I think at the Gaithersburg Ham fest. When I bought it did not have a meter and the transformers were all removed and in a separate box. Don’t think any of the transformers are original to that receiver but the large audio output transformer may be the closest. When I bought it the radio had several additional pots and a lot of poorly done work on it and although I do not consider myself a restorer I did remove all that crap and returned it to as close as practical to the original circuit, recall there were couple issues with a multi tap power resistor that had one section burnt out that I had to install a new wire would over top of and several other bad capacitors along with the missing power supply filter and I used new style capacitors under the chassis. Did like the late thirties design with the round IF transformers and tube shields. I did paint the front panel again along with trying to seal most of the holes that were put in by other and also replaced a lot of missing hardware. From what I recall the radio worked well with the only issue being the S meter circuit had a little brass pot on the rear apron that was at screen potential and adjusting it tended to be a shocking experience if you were not aware! I have a bad habit of buying basket case radios and somewhat putting them back together but then tend to not be interested in them once they are up and running again so it’s not uncommon for me to be selling something that I rebuilt for not a lot of money at Dayton. First time I have seen one show up anywheare.

[w8khk]

I recognize the W8khk receiver as the one I sold in Dayton back around 2006! I came by that radio a couple years earlier I think at the Gaithersburg Ham fest. When I bought it did not have a meter and the transformers were all removed and in a separate box. Don’t think any of the transformers are original to that receiver but the large audio output transformer may be the closest. When I bought it the radio had several additional pots and a lot of poorly done work on it and although I do not consider myself a restorer I did remove all that crap and returned it to as close as practical to the original circuit, recall there were couple issues with a multi tap power resistor that had one section burnt out that I had to install a new wire would over top of and several other bad capacitors along with the missing power supply filter and I used new style capacitors under the chassis. Did like the late thirties design with the round IF transformers and tube shields. I did paint the front panel again along with trying to seal most of the holes that were put in by other and also replaced a lot of missing hardware. From what I recall the radio worked well with the only issue being the S meter circuit had a little brass pot on the rear apron that was at screen potential and adjusting it tended to be a shocking experience if you were not aware! I have a bad habit of buying basket case radios and somewhat putting them back together but then tend to not be interested in them once they are up and running again so it’s not uncommon for me to be selling something that I rebuilt for not a lot of money at Dayton. First time I have seen one show up anywheare.

My apologies for the apparent thread hijack, but I could not resist replying to Ray after his post!

Ray,

Now I remember more about buying the radio.  I recall you left it on your table with a price tag, and I considered it a very fair deal, because I was very interested in having an RME-69 like the one my dad was using.  I waited until you returned and then completed the transaction shortly before leaving the fest for the day.  Yes, the power and output transformers are a bit larger than the mounting hole spacing, but are mounted well and oriented correctly.  The filter choke appears to be the same size, although probably not original.  The S-meter is not original, and I would like to find a matching one at some point in time.  I have replaced a few capacitors, and the only problem now is the standby switch connected to the audio gain shaft is intermittent.  Speaking of HV on the S-meter adjustment, I temporarily taped the meter terminals after carelessly shocking myself with them.  The band switch works perfectly, while my dad's does not on 40M.  The main tuning and bandspread dials move smooth as silk. 

Other than replacing a few other caps and resistors, the meter, and the toggle switch on the upper left with a tone control and switch, the only other mod I plan is to replace the front panel with a thicker aluminum panel, with no extra holes, so that I can rack mount it.  I have no original cabinet, and rack mounting will provide good ventilation and hopefully a long service life.  I always enjoyed using my grandfather's RME-69, and this is one of my favorite receivers.  Thanks for bringing it back to life and making it available for a fair price.  That is a good habit and should give you a real sense of satisfaction!

73, Rick

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

That's a bit ironic for me, because the first radio I ever saw for sale that I had owned before was a RME-69. Sold it at a yard sale my parents had, saw it years later at the CVARC Fall Foliage Hamfest in Randolph, VT. Easy to recognize as I had removed its dymo labeled panel and repainted it along with the cabinet, and then added dry transfer labels. No idea at that time (early 1980s) that it never had labels to start with, figured the silk screening had been lost in a previous re-paint.

As to the receiver in question, it definitely has some RME lineage, if only in parts. The tube count difference would be easy enough to account for if the previous owner removed the top plate of the chassis and replaced it with one of his own design, utilizing whatever he wanted from the model 69 and incorporating newer bits like the Millen dials (late 40s-early 50s?). Overall it doesn't look 'factory' or even like a prototype, more likely a private project for some ham decades ago.

That's my SWAG. BTW Carl, the left coast manufacturer you might've been thinking of was Sargent. That was my guess at first quick glance.

[w8khk]

Todd, I originally assumed that the receiver might have been a prototype prior to RME-69 manufacturing release.  But after the mention of the plastic vernier dial vintage being much later than the original RME manufacture date, I tend to agree with you that the receiver in question has been modified with a new front panel, and the job was performed with very good workmanship.  Pete pointed out the two extra countersunk holes under two of the knobs, which also supports the theory of a modified panel.

In all other respects (with the exception of the replacement transformers and the tuning eye) I believe it really is an RME-69.  You can visibly count seven tubes (not including the tuning eye).  The other two tubes are the 6D6 BFO under the cover plate with the hole in it on the left, and another 6D6 RF Amplifier in the space near where the wires from the tuning eye go under the chassis.   From the under-chassis view, you can clearly see the tube sockets for these two tubes are in their proper locations.  Therefore it does appear to be a 6 band, 9 tube RME-69, matching the nomenclature that Pete pointed out earlier.  In summary, I see no evidence that the chassis top panel has been replaced. 

The mechanism for the volume control and push-pull standby switch appears different than my factory unit and the unit in Pete's picture, but that is probably not significant.  Also I notice a choke on the underside of the chassis in my units and Pete's picture that is not in the unit under discussion.

The tuning eye gives it a unique character, and the general condition looks like it is a candidate for restoration to perfect operating condition, while not going to the time and expense of restoring it to the original design.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I suspect with those two tuning dials and frames, you probably couldn't fit the same S-meter between them as was the original.

[Carl WA1KPD]

Carl, the left coast manufacturer you might've been thinking of was Sargent. That was my guess at first quick glance.

Sargent, Pierson, Breting, Patterson. So many radios, so little time....