Interest in Fall AM Operating Event

[K4RT]

Some of the feedback received with the 2015 AM Transmitter Rally logs suggested adding an AM operating event in the fall.   I'm thinking it would have to be held before the contest season switches to high gear in November.  Is there interest?  Suggestions?

Brad

[KL7OF]

I would like to see an AM operating event in October (around Halloween) and/or another in November on  NON- contest weekends....The most enjoyable part for me is hearing the old military, broadcast, and homebrew rigs..

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Screw the corntests. Anyone who's tried to operate during one has seen how generally rude and inconsiderate they are toward the rest of the amateur population. Why should they get to decide which weekends (most) they want you use the bands and the rest of us sit back and cower, waiting for crumbs? Pffft, too.  That's why the radio gods invented QRO.

Actually, for several years now Steve/K4HX and I have discussed having an event over Thanksgiving weekend. Start Friday afternoon when holiday dishes are long done and the wimmins are all out enjoying Black Friday shopping, run through Sunday late day. No points, no corntest, just a laid back, come and go operating event with a nifty certificate available to those who submit a log with x number of contacts, and maybe some kind of prize for a people's or organizer's choice best station, nifty endorsement stamps for working certain key stations, etc etc.

That's about as far as it's gotten since real life tends to overrun the hobbies and other interests more often these days. Yep, it's a holiday weekend, yep - people have company or travel or whatever else. But a lot of folks are around home stuffing the wrong turkey, and with a 2+ day event and no pressure to "win" some imaginary status, it would allow the flexibility to operate when you can and (hopefully) entice more AM stations back onto the air.

Who knows? Maybe this will be the year. 

[Pete, WA2CWA]

The Classic Exchange is in September:
http://www.classicexchange.org/sep15/sep15ann.html

An "operating event" can be held any time of the year but obviously having it on a major contest weekend would be highly aggravating. State QSO parties, especially in highly populated amateur areas, can also be highly aggravating to any laid-back operating event.

[Steve - K4HX]

We should call it The Thanksgiving AM Homecoming Jamboree.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

We should call it The Thanksgiving AM Homecoming Jamboree.

What does "Homecoming" have to do with this type of activity.

[Steve - K4HX]

Either you get it or you don't.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Irb doesn't care.

[KC4VWU]

Here, here, I'm all in.

Todd, since you're in antenna mode, you can roll up here and re-string my diperpole for me. That way, I'll have no excuse not to participate.

73, Phil

[W3GMS]

I think the very low key, laid back and just getting on and chatting is the way to go.  No awards, no points but just to get on and chat with folks you have not talked to in a long time.  Stacking and racking up stations waiting in line for points just takes a lot of the fun out of it at least for me.  Also, most of us use VFO's, so have no operating windows.  Just find a clear spot and put the maw down and watch the meters dance around a bit!   Cool weather is a good time to hold such an event and conditions will generally be quieter.  December gets crazy for a lot of people since it can be a very busy time.  So November or January I think would be good. 

Joe-GMS       

[k3msb]

Irb doesn't care.

Now that brings back some memories Pete -- I was talking to Irb one time and I believe it was over Thanksgiving wherein he had the mic on "lock" and proceeded to instruct me on how to make sweet potatoes while he was washing the dishes..... could clearing hear the pots and pans clanging....!!  

[K4RT]

Screw the corntests. Anyone who's tried to operate during one has seen how generally rude and inconsiderate they are toward the rest of the amateur population. Why should they get to decide which weekends (most) they want you use the bands and the rest of us sit back and cower, waiting for crumbs? Pffft, too.  That's why the radio gods invented QRO.

Todd, no one is suggesting that AM operators cower to contesters.  But as you noted, many contesters are inconsiderate - and that's an understatement. There are quite a few AM operators who do not run QRO and so as a practical matter, scheduling a fall AM event during a popular SSB contest or QSO party(s) would likely be extremely challenging for guys & gals running low power.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

'Cower' was perhaps a little too dramatic, Brad.   The fact that anyone would almost automatically suggest making sure it's not a contest weekend pretty much has the same result. You make your operating time and enjoyment subordinate to theirs.

As to low power AMers wanting to operate - been there, done that, got a real signal. Seriously, even on non-contest nights it's difficult at best to work someone reliably on a DX-60, Apache, 32V or other low power rigs due to band noise alone. Unless it's an unusually quiet night, low power is pretty much restricted to local chatting.

And since the purpose of having such an event is theoretically to fill the bands with AM signals for folks to hear and work, running a decent signal (with enough audio to fully modulate the carrier) is a big piece of the puzzle. Anyone is encouraged to join in, regardless. I'm only saying the best results are realized with a strong, properly-modulated signal. And believe me - there are plenty of strong carriers out there with limp audio that can't be heard worth a damn. S9+ and 30-40% copy, if that.

Give it a try, though. You never know what you might be able to do. But contests or otherwise, trying to plan an operating event around low power AM in my opinion is pointless unless you want to stick to the higher bands and/or daytime operating.

I think the very low key, laid back and just getting on and chatting is the way to go.  No awards, no points but just to get on and chat with folks you have not talked to in a long time.  

That's pretty much it, Joe. No award for yelling the loudest or the most. I always liked Bill/KD0HG's original idea of a people's choice-type of award for someone heard by a lot of folks on the bands with excellent audio, good/fun operating style, etc. You can't compete for something like that other than being on the air and working folks.

'Operating Windows'...what a joke. Heard some guy ranting about that on 40m a week or so back. "Us AMers stay up here and only use this tiny piece of the band and you SSBers get the rest....". Pure BS, please don't speak for the rest of us. Yes - break loose the hardened grease on that VFO and populate the bands with signals.

Here, here, I'm all in.

Todd, since you're in antenna mode, you can roll up here and re-string my diperpole for me. That way, I'll have no excuse not to participate.

I really only got a messenger cable installed so I could mow the lawn. My aerials still need work, too. You need the HUZman and his superlauncher. So do I. Also need a better tech than me to chase the gremlin out of the RF deck in the big rig. It'd be fun just to come up to drink beer and see all the equipment you've hoarded, though.  

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

We should call it The Thanksgiving AM Homecoming Jamboree.

Heh, you just know that words like 'Jamboree' don't get anywhere near the appreciation they once did.

Listening for that little voice in the wilderness....

[WD8BIL]

I'm up for the Homecoming!!! Just waiting for deer killing to start after Thanksgiving anyway!!
With the new generator I can QRO from the cabin!

[K4RT]

Todd, it's great that you can run QRO, but I think you're looking at this entirely from a QRO perspective - exactly how hard core contesters view the world from a single perspective.  This event won't be planned around low power stations, but the realities of running lower power, among them the likelihood that bands busy with SSB stations will make it impossible for them to hear or be heard, must be considered. Even QRO stations will find reception challenging if the band's are crowded with SSB.

[k3msb]

Interesting points brought up in this thread.

The idea of having an event wherein it's just "laid back and just getting on and chatting" as advocated by Joe W3GMS is really nothing more than what is normally done.  So it's a "non event" event.

To me, the detraction of this format is that you rarely have dialogues.  You have rotating monologues where the time between getting to speak increases as more people join the round table.  This is why I don't operate a lot of 75M AM.  I much prefer the higher bands for AM where round tables are more difficult and you can actually have a nice dialogue with another station.

Brad's concern about the QRO issue is actually mitigated if you have a contest style exchange.  A 100W signal on 75M AM at night may be workable for a few minutes to make several quick contacts but otherwise not workable for a long rotating monologue type format.  Also, you can probably make more QSOs on the higher bands during the day (propagation permitting).

I suspect an AM event in which you try to work all 50 states in a 24 or 48 hour period might appeal to quite a few people.  A benefit would be that it would encompass more bands than 75M.  And let's face it, a lot of AMers are 75M centric in their perspective.   .

Ultimately, if you don't like the contest format, then spin the VFO and start your own QSO and don't participate in the event.  But remember, a contest style exchange doesn't preclude having a chat if it develops.   

[W3GMS]

Interesting points brought up in this thread.

The idea of having an event wherein it's just "laid back and just getting on and chatting" as advocated by Joe W3GMS is really nothing more than what is normally done.  So it's a "non event" event.

To me, the detraction of this format is that you rarely have dialogues.  You have rotating monologues where the time between getting to speak increases as more people join the round table.  This is why I don't operate a lot of 75M AM.  I much prefer the higher bands for AM where round tables are more difficult and you can actually have a nice dialogue with another station.

Brad's concern about the QRO issue is actually mitigated if you have a contest style exchange.  A 100W signal on 75M AM at night may be workable for a few minutes to make several quick contacts but otherwise not workable for a long rotating monologue type format.  Also, you can probably make more QSOs on the higher bands during the day (propagation permitting).

I suspect an AM event in which you try to work all 50 states in a 24 or 48 hour period might appeal to quite a few people.  A benefit would be that it would encompass more bands than 75M.  And let's face it, a lot of AMers are 75M centric in their perspective.   .

Ultimately, if you don't like the contest format, then spin the VFO and start your own QSO and don't participate in the event.  But remember, a contest style exchange doesn't preclude having a chat if it develops.    

Mark,
You raise some interesting points.    

Saying that, I often hear people signing from a large QSO and going down band and calling CQ and starting another group and if that gets to big then break away and start another roundtable.   Saying that, some people just like to keep things short and sweet and be on their way and one can do that if they like.  

Personality, I can't think of doing anything worse than trying to work all states during an event like this.  Then it becomes sort of like a contest once again and if most of the folks want that then that is the way to go.  

Having served as a Flag Ship station for the AWA QSO party, year after year most of the activity is on 75M followed by 40m and then everything else is in the grass.  Then again with no QSO count goals it does not really matter as to the activity.  Operating a lot of bands can be fun, but likely most of the watering holes will be on 75.  

So I kind of like as you put it, "non event" event!      

Joe-GMS          

[KB2WIG]

             "  .... "non event" event!  "

A Happening.

Groovey.

klc

P. S. I'll design the QSL cards 

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Yep, nothing more then a "non-event" event. It all can be satisfied with a "let's all get on the air (put date here)".  No competition, no challenges, no goals; and the curious fascination with hanging out in roundtables for hours on end. Any of this really can be done at any time of the year because, in reality, it's a non-event.

[W3GMS]

Yep, nothing more then a "non-event" event. It all can be satisfied with a "let's all get on the air (put date here)".  No competition, no challenges, no goals; and the curious fascination with hanging out in roundtables for hours on end. Any of this really can be done at any time of the year because, in reality, it's a non-event.

Always new you were a quick learner Pete 

Joe GMS

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Irb doesn't care.

Now that brings back some memories Pete -- I was talking to Irb one time and I believe it was over Thanksgiving wherein he had the mic on "lock" and proceeded to instruct me on how to make sweet potatoes while he was washing the dishes..... could clearing hear the pots and pans clanging....!!  

Not to derail the thread further, but he was unique in many respects. I recall one time at a hamfest my son Peter James was with me. He and Irb got into an over 1 1/2 hour conversation about whatever. In somewhat later times, Irb would catch me on the air and ask how he was doing, what he was doing, etc. I guess Peter James made an impression on him.  Back in the "good of days" we had some "interesting" characters on the air.

Anyway - back to the "non-event" discussion.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Yep, nothing more then a "non-event" event. It all can be satisfied with a "let's all get on the air (put date here)".  No competition, no challenges, no goals; and the curious fascination with hanging out in roundtables for hours on end. Any of this really can be done at any time of the year because, in reality, it's a non-event.

Always new you were a quick learner Pete 

Joe GMS

And I learned years ago to even read between the lines    Must be my Polish heritage

[W3GMS]

Yep, nothing more then a "non-event" event. It all can be satisfied with a "let's all get on the air (put date here)".  No competition, no challenges, no goals; and the curious fascination with hanging out in roundtables for hours on end. Any of this really can be done at any time of the year because, in reality, it's a non-event.

Always new you were a quick learner Pete 

Joe GMS

And I learned years ago to even read between the lines    Must be my Polish heritage

Hopefully Brad will get some constructive feedback on what people feelings are on the question he originally asked.   I gave mine, in what I believe to be a non sarcastic manner.  This is one of those things that will be debated forever.  So good luck Brad in coming to a decision.   

Joe-GMS

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Todd, it's great that you can run QRO, but I think you're looking at this entirely from a QRO perspective - exactly how hard core contesters view the world from a single perspective.

Wrong. Or, at least, not entirely accurate.   QRO*, sure, but I'm looking at it from a practical standpoint: as someone who ran "low power" (for low band AM) in the past and learned the hard way. If you search back through threads about this topic (there are many), you'll eventually come across my comments about running 100 watts on AM at night and being told one evening - nicely- by Tom/K1JJ that the group was having trouble hearing me and would love to have me take part, but was in danger of losing the frequency due to my pissweak signal. You see, operating locally during the morning and afternoon on weekends I was more or less a powerhouse with 100 watts. At night, I was a QRPer. Not because everyone else was QRO, but because the bands get louder and noisier at night due to more SSB activity and increased static levels.

This event won't be planned around low power stations, but the realities of running lower power, among them the likelihood that bands busy with SSB stations will make it impossible for them to hear or be heard, must be considered. Even QRO stations will find reception challenging if the band's are crowded with SSB.

Exactly my point previously, which I think you missed. This is the case most nights. Even when there isn't a contest, 40/75-80/160 tend to be noisy. It's difficult to work low power stations virtually any night, and many of us have been in a roundtable with one or two stations that couldn't be heard by some/most/any of the group at some point. There's a reason behind the old saying The ones who are the weakest talk the longest. It's different when you're working Jean/F6AQK or the other European AMers. Working DX is about searching for and digging out the weak ones. That's not what most AMers want to do when they get a few hours to fire up the rig and relax enjoying their hobby. I think it was Slab/KB3AHE who used to often make the comment 'Life is too short for QRP'. AM is already at a power disadvantage on the bands. We don't want to make it even worse by hosting an event that makes operating more annoying than it already is most nights. 

To me, the detraction of this format is that you rarely have dialogues.

Eh? That sounds like a perfect description of the contesting 'exchange'. No dialogue, just a quick, impersonal (and usually inaccurate) "5-9!" "5-9" "QSL, Good Luck in the contest!" style of operating, if you can call it that.

I'm with Joe entirely on the approach: nothing to fuel the ego and create the typically rude behavior associated with contesting. As Pete points out, yes - some groups do get pretty bloated. But as Joe says, that's when some of us jump ship and move elsewhere to start another group. I can recall events where there were 3-5 groups in the 80m portion of the band, and several more up in the 75m portion with the occasional group between. Works well, provided two things happen: people run enough power/audio to be heard reliably, and they break the chains of the imaginary 'window' mentality.

Just get on and work as many stations as you can or want to - the big difference from a typical night being that hopefully the [non]event gets more people on the air. No points to tally, no multipliers to keep track of, just a lot of different stations to work as long or as briefly as you wish. Add your signal to many others, light up the bands with AM. Yes, it should be like this every night but more and more it seems folks need some kind of reason or invitation to get on the air.

*It's as much about audio as power level. Some will recall the FT-101EE that Derb/N3DRB ran the last few months he was with us. I think Buddly has it now. No idea how or what he was doing, but Derb had audio like a 5kw signal while barely making the meter move. Stock power from the 101's sweep tubes. So even low power can be armchair copy or close if done right.