New Boat Anchor No 19 Wireless Mk11

[VE3LYX]

I acquired this week after some long term wheeling and dealing a pair of no 19 wireless sets. One appeared in good condition and was a Canadian Mk11. Today I fired it up with clip leads and an old 57 ford car radio vibrator supply (12 volts. Using an old pair of Brandes earphones clipped in the receiver works well. In fact very well. (may sell my HR10B ) Tomorrow if all goes well I will try the transmitter (single 807 output) They are apparently very low power , just a few watts on AM. Why so low I am not sure but that is the spec and the skinny as well. I wish to be able to use the transceiver as an exciter for 80m and 40m. It covers 2 to 8mcs in two bands. The second set (non Canadian MkIII) appeared very rough and was missing both its HF output tube and its VHF output tube. (Sets also have a low power 235mcs AM transceiver know as B set) However closer look showed much if it to be superficial or cosmetic. It would be great if it worked as well. It has no outer case. I have no cabling so have to make the connectors and sort out the schematic but so far so good. Did the same with my AR5s BTW so should be OK. New page in the projects section. Always fun!
don

[KA0HCP]

They were used mostly in tanks, and really didn't need more than a mile or two range.

[W6TOM]

 Over the last month on of the guys on the Saturday night West Coast Military Radio Collectors Net, 3985, AM, 7:30 PM PST, has been on with a wireless 19 into a long wire. He has managed to be heard from the Bay Area down to LA, a 400 mile path.

 I even got my BC-1306 out last Saturday night and was also heard down in LA from the Bay Area. On a winter night with good conditions and a good antenna those low power rigs can get out.

[VE3LYX]

I too use a long wire antenna, natural for 80M effective on 40M.
I understand why no more then a few miles was needed or desired. What I don't understand yet is how does a tube with 30watts plate dissipation manage to only put out 3 or 4 watts on 500 volts with 250 screen voltage. Or what can I do to get it up a bit so I can drive my twin 811A amp with it. If I can do that I will sell my Heath Dx60B station and Rx and use only the ARC 5s , the No 19 and my homebrews. Can you put me in touch with the No 19 guy in your group?
don
Re tank radios as  predriving teenager I had a pair of No 11 Wireless sets restored and working. Now there was a radio!
I think you could drop it from the CN tower and it would still work. The No 19 which was its replacement is pretty flimsy mechanically in comparison.  However they are nowadays non existant

[W6TOM]

 Email to your QRZ email address.

                                      Tom, W6TOM

[AJ1G]

A great forum for WS19 fanatics:

http://www.qsl.net/ve3bdb/

Dave Lawrence VE3DGB hosts the page, The Original WS 19 Group,  There are a large number of WS19 collector operators that frequent the forum, mostly in Canada, and the UK,  I used to check into their weekly CW nets, where most of the guys ran 19s, and their SSB nets (definitely not 19s!), but have not done so in a few years. 

The sets do have a fairly good but broad receiver.  The MKII sets do not have an RF gain control, so strong CW and SSB signals overload the BFO, you can add a simple RF gain control, which was an upgrade in the MK III version to deal with that issue.  They key  fairly well on CW, put out about 20 watts CW and  about  4 to 6 W on AM,  I used mine to drive an SB200 to about 50 watts AM, it was the first set I used on my return to AM in the late 80s in the early days of the Old Milrad Net.

One thing to watch out for is spurious signal emissions in the vicinity of 3700-3750, there is something about the mixing scheme that causes them to be pretty strong.

As far as I know, its one of the earliest single dial frequency control HF transceivers.  Used widely by the UK and Canadian forces in all sorts of applications besides tanks, including ground "portable" field applications.

[N8ETQ]

  Congratulations Don,

        They were what they were, Mine had the Russian
panel markings with the "Radium Paint". Probably not an issue
now but you may want to wash your hands after playing
with it.

GL

/Dan

[WQ9E]

Good point Dan,

I have a few knobs with radium paint and I sealed them under a couple of coats of clear lacquer and I would do the same if I had radium doped paint on the panel.  It would be very bad to inhale the paint, ingestion wouldn't be good either.  I wouldn't use a radioactive radio as my bedside radio either

It is the same issue if you drop one of the radioactive VR tubes, clean up properly with damp paper towels and seal and dispose of the debris properly.  Of course avoid inhaling anything during cleanup.

[VE3LYX]

 The No 11 was previous single control. Thanks for all the info. If you could push a SB200 then it will probably push my twin 811A Hb linear enough to get some usable level of power. I didn't know about the radium. I will seal them. Both mine have dual language panels. I have to make a Hv supply for the PA tube. It says 500 volts but I run my Arc5s at 770 with 1625s so I think an 807 can stand that too. I will feed the linear through a tuner which should clean it up I would think.
I could just steal it from there I guess but i have a vibrator supply I made from an old car radio Ps and would like to keep it all on 12 volts. I found an article on the Canadian Linear , a single 813 which was vibrator supply powered however since I have the linear already I just need to supply the HV for the PA tube.   What is the function of the NET button. It makes a difference when I push it but I don't know what it does. I tried to get back on the no19 group as I was already a member but can't find the right hoop to jump through.
Going to try the Tx today on 300 volts just to test and see..

[VE3LYX]

TX test was good. Carrier heard on nearby RX. Started making the 6 pin connector today to mate it to my vib supply
don

[WU2D]

Mine is an early 1942 RCA, US made with all English markings. It could be from the first US line. I cheat and run mine on regulated medium voltage and 500V on the plate of the 807 and get about 25 Watts out of pure CW. It sounds too good for a WS-19 - HI. I have worked over the pond many times with it on CW. One mod I did was to add a 5K trimpot to the cathode of the RF amplifier as an RF gain control. You need this on a decent antenna as it was made to work with a whip antenna and has too much gain for the BFO and overloads easily.

The modulation method on this rig is very advanced. It is control grid modulation with RF feedback drive control on the EF50 superMu driver. You will not find much on this in the Handbook but the idea is that control grid modulation requires a very low Z driver to keep the grid current into the PA stabilized for proper linearity. This can be done by overkilling the driver and using a big swamping resistor (The 807 driver in the BC-653 does this with its control grid modulation) or by using automatic RF drive gain control, which is how the WS-19 works on AM.

The EF50 driver tube was a very high tech tube indeed and this is the stage they vary the gain on to keep the drive Z constant with modulation. For information on the very interesting EF50:   http://www.dos4ever.com/EF50/EF50.html

[W3RSW]

Absolutely fascinating Walt. I've not yet read the entire link but it's a comprehensive window into those critical prewar and WWII times as well as explaining detailed methods and materials necessary to advance the state of the art. --Really puts all the dimensions and personalities together.

[VE3LYX]

Thanks For all the great info. I am making a cable connector by hand today. Do you think It will drive my twin 811A linear enough to boost AM performance any worthwhile amount? The other burning question in my mind which I should understand probably but don't is why is it only 3 to 4 watts out on AM? Seems to me an 807 should be able to produce a bit more then that. I was thinking like maybe 10 or 12W. I just want to know why. I am not going to butcher this radio (although I have a rough one that might succumb.) I have a set of ARC5 which have a parallel pair of 1625s which are I am told essentially a 12 V 807 and they do an amble job on AM. Not huge but enough to use when conditions are good and the receptor has a good low noise set up. I would like to use this one similar and drive my Linear with it if possible to a "useable " level. 20W to 25W out?
Since my only AM is 40M and occasionally 80M I would enjoy that but don't know if it is too much to expect. CW should be fun with it too. My Dad during the war was an instructor at No1 Wireless School for Wireless Mechanics as they were called and loves the 19 sets so he told me. He is 91 now so I hope he doesn't get too excited when I tell him I have a pair.
don

[VE3LYX]

I have been learning a lot about No 19 sets that I didn't know. As I mentioned my Dad was always blowing their praise horn from his wartime experience teaching their repair and maintenance. In researching their history I discovered they were designed by Pye Electronics at the request of British Military Supply offices in the early days of the war. Dad in the mid 1960s was chief Engineer of PYE Canada. I wonder if he knows that Pye designed these sets he was so fond of. He also worked for GE Canada and Collins Radio of Canada so maybe I should find an old ART13. I wonder if GE did any HF radio during WWII.
don
It gets worse! I was reading the history of how the No19 design was updated and brought to Canada or Canadianized.(No 19 was in Canadian Military use from 1942 to 1963) Four engineers from Canada were flown to Pye England during the war to learn the radio and design the special Canadian mods. The last surviving engineer of that group was the late Sidney Stillitoe of Belleville Ontario. My mailing address? RR#1 Belleville Ontario. Some things are just meant to be I think.

[W6TOM]

 Get an ART-13, I have a few and one of them has some parts have Canadian military stamps.

[VE3LYX]

What does an ART13 go for these days in repairable condition? Probably the last thing I need but I am curious. I now have 18 transmitters although many are HB. Maybe I should settle down. The less I want the more the deals come along!
don
Update.Cabling and connectors made and installed. Rig is running on low (1/2) power and hook ups all made. May push it through the 811A pair so if you hear a squeak be nice.
Tried it after lunch. I assumed a normal carbon mic. WRONG! Had a crystal mic and it functioned but not right. Apparently I need a dynamic moving coil type. I see a talking listening speaker in my future. As I don't have a 500 volt vib supply yet I stole the 275 from the Rx and main TX. This is about 1/2 required for the PA butit worked. Fed the 811A linear and the two get along well. Even with that miniscule input the linear pumps it up quite noticeably. Probably had 1.7 watts out. maybe 2 or 3 even. Went ahead and called on 7290 just in case.  Anyway it works. Now to find a decent mic and figure out audio output impedance rating. 600ohms? 2000ohms , 8 ohms 16 ohms ?
don

[VE3LYX]

Found it all. Output is 100 ohms approx. Found a suitable transformer. It works nicely AND with switching one wire the speaker with this transformer works nicely as a mic. Sits right in front of me anyway so I'm in, on air and smiling. Now to make a 500+ volt supply for PA tube. Linear seems to have no objections with the No 19 driving it. Hopefully at full power (3 to 4 watts) it will still be happy. A real fun project for me here. Will be working around 7290kcs + or _ with it. May even try a little 80M Cw
don

[W6TOM]

  I should probably not encourage you to go in my direction of insanity!!

  Henry Rogers, WA7YBS, has some good info on his website.

    http://www.radioblvd.com/art13.htm

  An ART-13 in repairable condition goes for $200 or $300, the three I have were in that price range, I had to fix each one. These are a PITA to work on, in once case all I needed to do is replace the 837 oscillator tube. The other ones were more complicated.

  I bought a very heavily modified one for $25, well worth it for parts, got another basket case for $50 which I bought for a friend who got it working.

   The ones I have I run off a dynamotor and a military power supply, a PP-1104, I'm told these were made to charge forklift batteries, I believe it too!! I call the power supply AMPSZILLA, 150 lbs, can be strapped for 14 volts at 100 amps or 28 volts at 50 amps. The ART-13 was made to run on a 24 volt aircraft electrical system.

   Real Radios Glow in the Dark and go WHIRRR!!!!! But you knew that!!

[VE3LYX]

You are having far too much fun I can see. BTW I was in Murphy Central (Killkenny Ireland) several years ago. There is a whole flock of Murphys living near us here as well. One is related. Re ART13 What I think I will do is keep an eye peeled for a deal. I got these No 19s for peanuts as everyone wanted to argue and no one wanted to buy. I put in a if you dont sell I will give you xxx rather then see them go to landfill. The seller got fed up with the nonsense after about 5 weeks and said if your offer still stands I will accept it. I send him the gold in the next outgoing mail and dealt with the shipping etc later. I really wasn't that interested in them but that has changed. I used to run my No 11 sets on the dynomtrs and loved the sound. I have a 24 volt dynomotor 110v output. I took it apart to service it and discovered a Hd dropping resistor inside the 24 volt section. I guessed it is really a 12v and the resistor was designed in for 24v use so i could rig it up however I have gotten really into these vibrator supplies and since the No 19 has nly one measely 807 loafing along at a few watts I know it would be the easiest supply for me. I use the Rx and low power on that now. (A vibrator supply) If I had a ART13 I would have to have the whrrin dynomtrs. I know where there are a few up here. For now I will just dream but if a deal comes along who knows? I am having so much fun with this No 19 I cant believe it.
I also use these from time to time.

[W6TOM]

  I had some ARC5 stuff but sold it all when I realized how difficult it was to find connectors and other parts.

  My Father's parents were from Waterford Ireland, they were born in the 1860's, my father was the last born in a large family. He was born in Cambridge, MA, I still have relatives there. My mother was a Sullivan, I got the double whammy!! She was from Boston. I have two sisters who live south of Boston on the South Shore.

  I've seen a number of ART-13's that had Canadian markings including the crown stamp.

  When I retire next year I plan to spend a lot of time playing with this stuff. I also find the history to be interesting too.

[WA2TTP Steve]

Mike,
Thanks for posting the EF50 link. What a history lesson. Very interesting from start to finish.

73,
Steve

[W1RC]

I have a Wireless Set No. 52 receiver and transmitter which is the base station version of the WS19.  Also have a power supply and the antenna variometer, still in the box. There are complete but I am sure there are cables, etc, that are needed to make it operational.  I don't think I will ever do anything with it so I'm thinking of selling it, any one want to talk me into it?

Email me at    w1rc@near-fest.com

It's on the heavy side so pickup is highly preferred.  Locates just north of Boston, Massachusetts.

73,

MeMike, W1RC

[VE3LYX]

Man there are a lot of temptations around but being retired not a lot of gold. Now why wouldn't you drag that 52 out a fire it up. 100 watts I think it is. I was not really interested in the No 19s but didn't want them to vanish in a land fill. I was wrong in my judgement. They are a very interesting radio and a real joy to run.
re ARC 5s I ran cabling through the socket holes and soldered them to the pins inside. That way i had not butchered the radio in anyway and if PS and cables appeared a few minutes would put me back in business. I did not 6 volt them which has to be one of the dumbest recommendations ever. I removed a few series links and paralleled them so they run on 12 volts. took all in all about 1 1/2 hours to take them to running. I made several modulators basically cathode modulators and have used them all on air successfully. One modulator is for crystal mics and two for carbon mics. The crystal mic gives the better performance although if I added a speech amp to the carbon ones I think they would be right there. They all work which is fun. The BC454 receiver is a bit of a disappointment but it does work.  The receiver in the No 19 is very sensitive and clean. Not particularly narrow but not a problem to use. Makes my HR10B look like a piece of junk. Runs a speaker with ease. I wish the transmitter had a bit more power. They say 3 to 4 watts AM and I still don't understand how they keep an 807 tied down so low. However even running the TX just at 275 volts on the PA everything works and it pushes my HB linear without complaint so that impresses me. Hopefully when I finish the PA tube 500+volt supply that will give me enough drive on the linear to enjoy the radio on the air in regular daily use. That is my goal. I want to sell the DX60B and HR10B and use this instead. I got back way more then i planned when I rescued these sets.
ReWaterford. Been there too when the crystal factory was still operating. It isnt that far from Kilkenny where the many Murphys are known to have come from. I told our B&B lady in Kilkenny that my nieces hubby Kevin Murphy had told me the Murphys in Ontario had all come from Kilkenny and there were none left there. She said "Well he lied to you boy. There are still a few around here. " I had to grin.
don   

[VE3LYX]

Had a very interesting morning. Batteries had been charged all night so I had a bit of play room. I dug out my homebrew simple antenna tuner /matcher loosely interpreted from the 1940 RADIO Handbook. I stuck it in the circuit to the twin 811A amp and switched the coax switch on its output to dummy load. (100watt light bulb) I warmed up the No 19 and turned on the tx tuned to 7290kcs feeding through the tuner to the Amps input. I am running the Tx on only 275volts , rx power basically as I dont have the 500 v vib supply made yet. Imagine my surprise to see the bulb load come immediately to just under half brightness. Slightly orange or dirty yellow. I spoke into the speaker mic and was pleased to see the output jump nicely with modulation. I am guessing around 30 watts out conservatively. Enough on a good day for a QSO. The Amp seems to like being driven by the No 19. So inspired by this success I pulled the key out of my TNT and stuck it in the No 19 switching to CW mode. I hit the key at the same tune up and bingo full white lamp. Almost 100% brightness. That is the good news. The bad news was the XYL reported that "whatever you were doing just before you came up it was causing the Tv to flicker or speckle. Not something I wanted to hear. However I do have sufficient power if I use the 19 to drive that amp even at the 1/2 power PA voltage. I will look into the TVI deal. could be a ground or too many long loopy wires at the moment. Hopefully nothing major. So I hope to work some of you nearby folks in the near future.  I am surprised it drives the amp so easily. What was that old 7 up ad. "The smell of success is never too sweet!" I am pleasantly surprised by all of this. I didn't expect it.
don 

[W4EWH]

I just remembered: there's a group on Yahoo for Wireless Set #19: it's a great place to get answers, parts, and Elmers.

It's at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Wireless-Set-No19/info

W1AC