X-10 Waveform Quality

[W3GMS]

Not directly related to Ham Radio but could be.  In trouble shooting which turned out to be a bad GFI outlet I noticed the feed to the GFI was only 102 volts as read on my digital meter as well as my Simpson 260.  That circuit is controlled by a X-10 remote controlled wall switch.  We have a bunch of them on our outside lights and when the work, they work well.  So I figures well just a bad X-10 wall switch.  Replaced it and noticed the exact same thing.  Then I took the scope out to see the waveform and it explained the lower average voltage.  I have designed AC controller using Triac's and never had as much "off time" around the zero crossover point as the X-10 switch has. 

Just thought I would mention it for anyone using X-10 switches. 

Joe, GMS

[N0WEK]

Not directly related to Ham Radio but could be.  In trouble shooting which turned out to be a bad GFI outlet I noticed the feed to the GFI was only 102 volts as read on my digital meter as well as my Simpson 260.  That circuit is controlled by a X-10 remote controlled wall switch.  We have a bunch of them on our outside lights and when the work, they work well.  So I figures well just a bad X-10 wall switch.  Replaced it and noticed the exact same thing.  Then I took the scope out to see the waveform and it explained the lower average voltage.  I have designed AC controller using Triac's and never had as much "off time" around the zero crossover point as the X-10 switch has. 

Just thought I would mention it for anyone using X-10 switches. 

Joe, GMS

I'm assuming that the switch isn't a dimmer type and is an appliance/devise switch?

[Steve - K4HX]

The off time or zero crossings are where X-10 does its communicating - 120 kHz bursts, one bit at each zero crossing. Use that nice delay vernier on your scope and zoom in on a zero crossing. I bet you see a 120 kHz burst.

[W3GMS]

The off time or zero crossings are where X-10 does its communicating - 120 kHz bursts, one bit at each zero crossing. Use that nice delay vernier on your scope and zoom in on a zero crossing. I bet you see a 120 kHz burst.

Steve,

Ah, that certainly makes sense Steve since I do remember reading that is when the info is received during the zero cross time.   

I just assumed I would get near 120V from the switch but not the case.  So for device such as light bulbs its not an issue.   The the small load current with our outside LED's in the sconces do not provide enough current to keep them on.  So we have one 10W incandescent in with the others and it works fine.

Joe, GMS
   

 

[W3GMS]

Not directly related to Ham Radio but could be.  In trouble shooting which turned out to be a bad GFI outlet I noticed the feed to the GFI was only 102 volts as read on my digital meter as well as my Simpson 260.  That circuit is controlled by a X-10 remote controlled wall switch.  We have a bunch of them on our outside lights and when the work, they work well.  So I figures well just a bad X-10 wall switch.  Replaced it and noticed the exact same thing.  Then I took the scope out to see the waveform and it explained the lower average voltage.  I have designed AC controller using Triac's and never had as much "off time" around the zero crossover point as the X-10 switch has. 

Just thought I would mention it for anyone using X-10 switches. 

Joe, GMS

I'm assuming that the switch isn't a dimmer type and is an appliance/devise switch?

The original or older ones are strictly on/off.   The new ones can be used for dimming if you want to use it that way.  In our case we just use it as an on/off.  I looked at the old and newer style and the scope waveform was pretty much the same and both dropped about 20 volts.  We have this small controller which is the transmitter which talks to the remote units.  It will handle something like 16 devices.  They have controllers you can program from your P.C. as well.  Its real handy for turning the outside lights on and off at preset times. 

Joe, GMS         

[KA2DZT]

What exactly is a X-10 switch??  Never heard of it.  Some new type of dimmer??

Fred

[Steve - K4HX]

It's ten times better than a regular switch.

[W3GMS]

What exactly is a X-10 switch??  Never heard of it.  Some new type of dimmer??

Fred

Hi Fred,

It a home automation solution.   We have had it for many years and it can be problematic at times but overall it has worked well for us. 

Here is a more comprehensive answer to your question:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X10_%28industry_standard%29


73,
Joe, GMS

[W3RSW]

Steve, you crack me up.  Was half way throught the wiki when it hit me. ...times 10.   -And off to the complex plane for you. 

[W1RKW]

I use an X-10 system for controlling the christmas lights at the QTH. I can turn them on or off at the flick of a switch/timer. I had a devil of a time getting some lights to trigger when the others would trigger without any issue. Came to the realization that the lights that would intermittently trigger were on a different buss in the panel. Put a HV capacitor across the busses and all work OK fine.

[Opcom]

It's ten times better than a regular switch.

It's also an inexpensive and low performance implementation of powerline modem and control.

Its industrial counterpart contains a more serious 'power line modem' having greater range, different modulations and transmission protocols, higher data rate, and a system-level peripheral of wider or custom variety.