Neighborhood noise level

[Detroit47]

I have a new noise in my neighborhood that only comes out at night. It covers the Hf band all the way from 80 to 10 meters. I have a solid S9 right across the band. I haven't pin pointed it yet but a street light is my guess. I cruised the immediate area and determined that it is strongest on the next block directly behind my house. I need to come up with a directional antenna that I carry with me and do a little hunting. Anybody have a proven method for tracking down RFI. I was thinking about a lil beam or a loop. I have never taken part in a fox hunt so this is a new sport for me. I might add that the street lights are vapor no LED's.

John N8QPC

[KA2DZT]

I have a new noise in my neighborhood that only comes out at night. It covers the Hf band all the way from 80 to 10 meters. I have a solid S9 right across the band. I haven't pin pointed it yet but a street light is my guess. I cruised the immediate area and determined that it is strongest on the next block directly behind my house. I need to come up with a directional antenna that I carry with me and do a little hunting. Anybody have a proven method for tracking down RFI. I was thinking about a lil beam or a loop. I have never taken part in a fox hunt so this is a new sport for me. I might add that the street lights are vapor no LED's.

John N8QPC

I was in the TV antenna business for over 45 years.  Traced interference 100s of times.  I used field strength meters and a VHF antenna.  The noise most likely is up into VHF.  It can be tricky to pin point.  You must get away from the street poles and power lines.  Try to take readings in open areas wherever possible away from the street poles.  Once you have zeroed in on the area then you can do more tracing much closer to the poles and power lines. 

Interference, on average, came from the grid about 50% of the time.  The rest from inside homes and other buildings.  Anything is possible, good luck.

Fred

[Jeff W9GY]

I've used a 3 element hand held yagi cut for the aircraft band (approx 125 MHz) and a hand held scanner operating in the aircraft band (your interference is essentially AM and so is aircraft radio).  Between the antenna and receiver input there is a a variable attenuator, which allows you to get closer to the noise source to better define its location.  There's a QST article 10 + years ago detailing all this..

[flintstone mop]

Only at night and all across the bands of 80-10M. No peaks or dips?
I have some intermittent RFI from transmission lines about a mile from the house on 40M and they do not cause a problem on 160M.
There were some cycling street lights that were killing me on 160M and found those by dialing the auto AM radio to 1700. I would drive along streets about a mile radius around the QTH and would look for a street light out to be out, and then trying to re-start, IF there was any RF noise I would compare that to what I hear in the shack, and if it was the same, I got the pole number and turned it into the local power company.
PennPower has an online service to turn in defective street lights. Pole number or closest house address and a call back number. In two days they are calling me to say that they replaced the entire lamp.
A steady, entire band(s) signal should be fairly easy.......I thought Plasma TV's were not popular anymore.
There's a lot of possibilities out there nowadays.
Only at night gives you some hope to find it quicker.
Fred

[N8ETQ]

Hey John,

    An old buzzard I used to do service work for would carry
a sledge hammer. When he thought he had the pole located
he would give it a good whack.. said you could hear it in
the RX.

YMMV

/Dan

[Jim, W5JO]

Hey John,

    An old buzzard I used to do service work for would carry
a sledge hammer. When he thought he had the pole located
he would give it a good whack.. said you could hear it in
the RX.

YMMV

/Dan

The power companies here discourage that.  Seems as if they have had insulators break and allow the line to fall.  The some of the insulators are two piece and develop cracks at the mounting point over the years because of heating and cooling.   I would not want to be under one when that happened.  If it has a guy wire I will gently shake that, it doesn't take much.

[KD6VXI]

Check how many hours a day / night  total.   If it's 12 or 16 hours of noise,  I'll bet your local grow house upgraded to digital ballasts.

When I lived in Santa Cruz,  Ca I could pinpoint each grow house with my mobile right g.

--Shane
KD6VXI

[N8ETQ]

  Really?  Poor Things...



The power companies here discourage that.  Seems as if they have had insulators break and allow the line to fall.  The some of the insulators are two piece and develop cracks at the mounting point over the years because of heating and cooling.   I would not want to be under one when that happened.  If it has a guy wire I will gently shake that, it doesn't take much.

[/quote]

[WD8KDG]

John,

I've used a cheap Elton shortwave portable receiver to pin point RFI coming from homes in my neighborhood. Tune in one of the stronger harmonics, maybe not "the" strongest. Have the antenna extended full length and start walking. As the signal gets stronger, shorten the antenna. This has walked me the their front door.

After finding the source of the RFI, the work begins. Not all neighbors give a damn.

Might add: The RFI levels in my hood suck! S9, 24/7 on the riceboxes. 20DB on the R390/A's.

Plasma TV's are the invention of the devil. And then the grow lights from the house two doors down the street

Craig,

[Detroit47]

I am doing some investigating of my own to pinpoint the  source. I have a call in to the FCC, I am awaiting their response. I don't want to piss off my neighbors but I can't have my ears plugged.

John N8QPC

[WD8KDG]

I am doing some investigating of my own to pinpoint the  source. I have a call in to the FCC, I am awaiting their response. I don't want to piss off my neighbors but I can't have my ears plugged.

John N8QPC

John,

Hope your search finds the source. If it related to the electrical power system or TV cable leakage the FCC will be of help. I've found the FCC here in the PNW to be as useful as titts on a boar hog if the source is a neighbors home.

Craig,

[KA2DZT]

One of the big problems with noise nowadays is cable TV, sat TV and digital TV.  I spend over 45 yrs in the TV antenna system business.  Over that time I traced hundreds of interference problems.

So why is modern TV at fault, you ask.  The first place noise would show up was on folk's TV screen.  So when I would trace a problem it was no problem if it was coming from  someone's house.  I would knock on their door and tell the homeowner why I was there.  I knew for sure they had the same problem with their TV even if they hadn't complained.  They would be so excited that I was there to help. I would get invited in, offered dinner, or anything if I could fix the static that was on their TV screen.  Usually I would find the source in short order.  Everyone was happy, I got paid by whoever called me out in the first place.

Nowadays, the same problem is not so easy to resolve.  If you knock on someone's door they'll call the police.

Fred

[Detroit47]

John,

I've used a cheap Elton shortwave portable receiver to pin point RFI coming from homes in my neighborhood. Tune in one of the stronger harmonics, maybe not "the" strongest. Have the antenna extended full length and start walking. As the signal gets stronger, shorten the antenna. This has walked me the their front door.

A

Craig I used your method with a portable receiver and walked up on the offending house. There doesn't seem to be anyone living there but the noise goes on and off like clockwork. I got a hold of the FCC and they gave me an Email address for ham interference complaints.  The email is FCCHAM@FCC.GOV  SO I wrote a detailed letter with all the info including the times of interference and the address of the offending party. So lets see what they do about it.

John N8QPC

[flintstone mop]

Strange problem there. Must be a night light or a light on a timer to make the house look occupied. Any way to go the local court house and see who owns it? You can use the story to the owner that the interference that is coming from his house might be an electrical problem that he needs to correct.
I had a problem with a neighbor, who understood my situation, and her under counter fluorescent light. EVERY evening ON and at 12 midnight OFF. Blanked out most of 80M and parts of 160M. I bought her a new fixture and everything was goodness.
Fred

[wa3dsp]

Several years ago I found a noise problem that was only happening at night by using the method of whacking the pole. I just used the bottom of my foot squarely hitting the pole. But first I narrowed it down to an area with a portable VHF AM (air band vicinity) radio. I just used my THF6 with a short whip.

I copied the pole number, took some photos of the pole during the day, and called the utility company. The "noise guru" emailed me and I sent him the photos. The entire pole was replace in about a month. Problem gone.

Power companies are required by law to fix noise problems and many have been fined for not doing so. If you have a good "noise guy" at your utility they will help you immensely. In my case I got his personal email and in the future I will be able to contact him directly.

Using an AM broadcast or HF radio is usually useless at finding the exact location of a problem. Most utility companies use VHF/UHF frequencies for narrowing down the location.

[Detroit47]

Update on my noise war. I had a nice conversation with Laura Smith of the FCC S.C.A.R.E. (Special Council for Amateur Radio Enforcement)today on the phone. Laura was very pleasant and quite helpful. She assured me that this situation will be rectified but it will take a little time. The first step was a formal complaint which I already  did. Next they will hand the information over to the ARRL, and they will send out a letter to the guy. If that doesn't resolve the matter. Then the FCC will send him a letter, if that is not enough to get him to clean up his act. They will send out the FCC enforcement guys with the local police. She told me that they have to go through these steps before they send out the men in Black.I am satisfied with what is happening so far. I was happy that they are taking an interest in my problem. 

John N8QPC

[w1vtp]

This subject has been covered in detail on this forum.  Basically, one needs a VHF directional finder (DFer) that operates on AM, like the aircraft band (NOT a 2 meter FM receiver).  For this, look for an article in May 2007 written by W1TRC for a portable yagi built out of measuring tape.  To pinpoint the location on power line arcs one needs an ultrasonic DFer.  For this, see April 2006 QST also written by W1TRC.

MFJ has a couple of products for this subject:  part number MFJ-853 for a VHF DFer and MFJ-5008 for an ultrasonic DFer.

Otherwise, perhaps the sledge hammer will do the trick - just don't walk around the neighborhood in a threatening way 

Al

[Detroit47]

Al
I have tracked down the source of the interference. It is coming from a house on the next street from me. It is not a power line or a street light, but rather something inside this persons house. I don't want to have any interaction with the offending party. I don't care what he is running as long as it don't bother me. I tracked it down with my Drake SW8 receiver. When I got in front of this house the s meter was full scale. I then put the antenna fully down and the signal went down to 2 s units. When I walked up to the door of the house with the antenna still down the s meter was full scale bingo. I am confident that this is the source of my problem. So I let the proper authorities deal with it. I don't want a confrontation with some fool who is growing weed. I don't know this to be a fact, but the interference is on a exact schedule. I don't know what else it could be and I really don't care. Being as it is legal to grow medical marijuana in Michigan it is a safe bet. I have been told by Laura Smith herself that they have been having a lot of complaints about Chinese ballasts emitting a rainbow of interference. I don't live in the country this is the Detroit area and there are a lot of kooks out there. I don't need the grief of some fool having a personal vendetta against the guy with the radio. Also I gave Laura a detailed account of what I did, and she told me that was exactly what she would have asked me to do. She stated that they don't expect a ham to have the same equipment as the FCC to find interference. If they have to make a visit to this person they will bring out their RDF equipment to prove it.

John N8QPC

[WD8KDG]

This subject has been covered in detail on this forum.  Basically, one needs a VHF directional finder (DFer) that operates on AM, like the aircraft band (NOT a 2 meter FM receiver).  For this, look for an article in May 2007 written by W1TRC for a portable yagi built out of measuring tape.  To pinpoint the location on power line arcs one needs an ultrasonic DFer.  For this, see April 2006 QST also written by W1TRC.

MFJ has a couple of products for this subject:  part number MFJ-853 for a VHF DFer and MFJ-5008 for an ultrasonic DFer.

Otherwise, perhaps the sledge hammer will do the trick - just don't walk around the neighborhood in a threatening way 

Al

Not to disagree or agree:

It all depends; is it a power line noise, leakage from TV cable, or a Part 15 device in someone's home?

The detection method has to be correct or it could turn into a witch hunt. I'll wager most RFI is now caused by Part 15 devices.

Craig,

[Detroit47]

Craig

I did my best to track it down. Now the FCC said they will handle it. No witch hunt. No burning at the stake this isn't Salem.

John

[w1vtp]

OK John.  Just follow through and stay out of trouble.  I have florescents in my back room that are very raunchy.  I keep all flourescents off in my shack.  Neighbors?  That's another subject.

GL, Al

[WD8KDG]

Craig

I did my best to track it down. Now the FCC said they will handle it. No witch hunt. No burning at the stake this isn't Salem.

John

Hope all goes well and an easy fix takes care of the RFI. The RFI at my QTH is terible. Binh Nguyen, Resident Angent-Electronics Engineer/Enforcement Bureau found the same source that I did, same house, etc. He did nothing. Even Laura Smith called me and said the owner of that house threatened to harm me. So much for the legal system.

Craig,