Need to build a fiber optic link- need advise from the experts (which I am not!)

[steve_qix]

I have a "situation" at my QTH.  I cannot get high speed Internet to my QTH, at least not directly.

Since 1998, I've been using a microwave link from the QTH down to the center of town 3 1/2 miles away.  It is pure line of sight, so no problem.  No fade, no issues other than very occasional (3 times in 10 years) lightning damage to the equipment.  I've upgraded the link over the years, and now it's a 45 megabit link.  Have Comcast high speed Internet at the center of town. The problem:  I'm losing the space in the center of town, and won't be able to keep the link.

But, not to be dissuaded, I have an arrangement with my neighbor (about 2000 feet from me) whereby I have can space in their basement for my stuff, and have moved my 50 megabit link up there.  Ok, sounds good except I cannot see his house at all, nor any part of it from the top of my tower.  My 45 megabit link works marginally at about 20 megabits, but there is considerable weather fade, and during the summer when the leaves are thick on the trees, it is unusable.  Putting a tower up over there - yes, I could do it, but why?

But, what about running fiber from my place, over next door?  I own all of the land between the houses.  The distance of the run, in total will be around 2000 feet - maybe just shy of this (1800 ft or thereabouts).  One big advantage of fiber is this - no more lightning damage !!!!!  And, it's fast.  I'd need 2 fibers to make a good full duplex link.  Maybe I could even run video, as we have no cable TV here either - just get TV off the air, which is just fine except that I miss the Red Sox games.

I have never done anything with fiber at all.  Is this idea practical?  How strong is the cable?  I could string it up between trees, etc. but it seems as if laying it along the ground might be better.  If trees fall on it, etc. it won't be damaged.

I'm sure we have some real life experience here in the community about this sort of thing.  Is this a cockamamie idea?

Any thoughts on the price?

I really appreciate any advise, technical experiences, etc. etc. etc.

Thanks and Regards,  Steve

[Opcom]

I've only scrapped a transceiver. Inside was a 1W laser, not 808, I think 900 something, RF modulator looking circuit of some kind and a splitter/receiver basically looked like a little box soldered shut, I didn't open it. Just took the laser out for evil but eventually useless purposes. Sorry for the worthless reply but the laser being 1W is one point, meaning some fraction of that might be needed.

There's got to be some scrap telcom gear like that. I know for certain the fiber has to be compatible with the laser wavelength and beam characteristics, you need special tools to precisely make the ends of the fiber optic 'cable' and it takes some skill. I have seen techs do this at time warner and in a lab I worked in connecting DSL's ATM backbone over fiber. I was told the basics, they use several lasers on different wavelengths going into the fiber to get more bandwidths. 1300nm is common.

Whomever can give a personal answer will give us all an education! I assume you want to build this yourself?

Try asking here in this forum. There is a wide expertise in lasers there, maybe a tech for this can answer too:
http://www.photonlexicon.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1365087

http://www.thefoa.org/tech/ref/contents.html self learning

http://www.lawrencelabs.com/fiber-optic-links.html?gclid=CKuc5qWupLsCFSvl7AodoDkA8Q gear

OK well sorry I just got excited about it!

[steve_qix]

Whomever can give a personal answer will give us all an education! I assume you want to build this yourself?

Hi Patrick,

Well, in this case I think C.O.T.S (Commercial Off The Shelf) is the best way to go as things have to be small and very reliable.  The Internet is crucial to my business.  In fact, right now I'm using my "back up" connection - through the Verizon 4G network using the smart phone as a so-called "hot spot".  Hey, it works pretty well, so what the heck.  But, the data is expensive so I try to keep a lid on it.

[KA0HCP]

http://www.blackbox.com/Store/Results.aspx/Networking/Media-Converters/n-4294953610

-Media converter at each end (size of a cigarette pack) connect to your hub/server
with a copper CAT/5/6 jumper.

-Buy fiber optic pre-terminated, ST connectors are the standard, in a convenient length.  I suggest buying a 2 fiber cable for redundancy.  Lay it in the ground down a few inches just like a radial.  Modern fiber optic is made from plastic and are quite rugged compared to decades ago.

Black Box has quality products in my experience.  If nothing else their catalog is a good reference on the technology.   No doubt you can find bargains particularly on the cable, probably with custom length and terminals.

I first worked with fiber networking about ten years ago on a navy project for portable command base.  I had no problems buying COTS gear and setting up, that was dead reliable.  I had more problems with the copper networking and durned RJ45 connectors, by far. BTW, even with as many as 10 radios from HF - SHF within feet, I could never induce any network problems.  Couple dozen of these base stations went straight to Iraq/Afghan for operation in ambient conditions/tents.

[K4RT]

Steve,

You might consider contacting Dave WA3GIN. Dave has installed fiber from his home to operate his ham gear remotely. It's been a while since I've been over there, but I think the fiber run is perhaps a thousand feet give or take.  I believe Dave successfully addressed some attenuation issues. You can find Dave's e-mail address on qrz.com.

73,
Brad K4RT

[Steve - K4HX]

100% agree. I've done a few of these at work. I think Black Box even sells protected (sort of semi-rigid outer cover) fiber (IIRC it's called loose tube). It's kinda pricey though. The less expensive option is the duplex zipcord style. It's Kevlar coated and plenum rated, so it's pretty tough. I've never used this outside though.

BTW, what is the RF freqy of your current link?

http://www.blackbox.com/Store/Results.aspx/Networking/Media-Converters/n-4294953610

-Media converter at each end (size of a cigarette pack) connect to your hub/server
with a copper CAT/5/6 jumper.

-Buy fiber optic pre-terminated, ST connectors are the standard, in a convenient length.  I suggest buying a 2 fiber cable for redundancy.  Lay it in the ground down a few inches just like a radial.  Modern fiber optic is made from plastic and are quite rugged compared to decades ago.

Black Box has quality products in my experience.  If nothing else their catalog is a good reference on the technology.   No doubt you can find bargains particularly on the cable, probably with custom length and terminals.

I first worked with fiber networking about ten years ago on a navy project for portable command base.  I had no problems buying COTS gear and setting up, that was dead reliable.  I had more problems with the copper networking and durned RJ45 connectors, by far. BTW, even with as many as 10 radios from HF - SHF within feet, I could never induce any network problems.  Couple dozen of these base stations went straight to Iraq/Afghan for operation in ambient conditions/tents.

[steve_qix]

BTW, what is the RF freqy of your current link?

The 5.8gHz band

Thanks for the suggestions so far.  I will have to price out the cable.  I see some on Ebay from time to time.

[KA2DZT]

Steve,

Why can't you just use coax cable or hard line for the link??

Fred

[N2DTS]

I work with fiber every day, and you need outdoor commercial stuff like they have on the poles if its going to hold up for long.
You could put indoor fiber jumper type stuff in a conduit I suppose, as long as it stays dry.

I do not buy it, just use it, but I think its all expensive in any length, then you need to buy the converters, and there are different ranges and speeds.

If you do not buy pre made jumper stuff, which will not come in 2000 foot lengths, you need to splice it onto a patch panel with special tools and supplies.
The actual fibers in a cable are hair thin, and thin hair at that, and brittle.
There are special trays to break out the fibers, then they splice them onto the patch panel pig tails.
You can also terminate fibers directly, but I have not seen them do it to know what is involved.

Lots of info here:
http://www.jkyfiberoptics.com/23-fiber-optic-connector

The ofnr stuff can be much thicker of a cable, but its not designed to be weatherproof.

Here is the problem with running fiber outside:
http://www.occfiber.com/main/index.php?p=31

For customers that can not get dsl or other service, many use 4G service:

http://getwirelessllc.com/Airlink_Raven-XT.php

I think the wireless providers have plans just for data access, and I have seen everything from a dial up modem replacement, to stores running their computer systems plus live video feeds (many camera's) over it.

Dunkin Dog nuts uses that a lot, the owner keeps an eye on many stores remotely, even on their phone.
If the workers slack off, they call and yell at them.

If you have 4G service, it might be an option.
Peak speeds are 100mb.

[Steve - K4HX]

Have you looked at the 900 MHz stuff? The path loss is less and the effects from the trees are reduced.

BTW, what is the RF freqy of your current link?

The 5.8gHz band

Thanks for the suggestions so far.  I will have to price out the cable.  I see some on Ebay from time to time.

[w3jn]

We use fiber all the time for video feeds, sometimes several thousand feet at a time.  We only do this where coax is impractical due to attenuation or lightning problems as the system is considerably more expensive than coax.  For outdoor use it's gotta be in conduit, particularly if you have meeces or other varmints that are gonna chew on the stuff.  Stringing it thru the trees is a recipe for disaster as it's not meant to swing repeatedly in the wind.  The FO connectors aren't that expensive but the proper tool to attach them isn't cheap.

Adding up the cost of the fiber, 2000' of conduit (PVC will work FB), the FO interfaces, the connectors, and the connector tool - I think you're better off talking to the cable company or Verizon to see if they can't extend service to your QTH.  Since you depend on this for your business it would probably be worth the expenditure as whatever you do here won't be cheap.

[steve_qix]

Have you looked at the 900 MHz stuff? The path loss is less and the effects from the trees are reduced.

Yes, I have been seriously thinking about going to 900mHz if the fiber link is too expensive or impractical.  I used the 5.8 gig equipment because I had it around, and everything was already installed up on the tower at my end.  But, the non-line-of-sight aspect really makes 900mHz attractive.  You can get equipment that will run at 150 megabits for reasonably short money these days.  And because my link length is relatively short (less than 1/2 mile), at 900mHz it should be reliable.

I use 2.4gHz up at Rattlesnake Island to get high speed Internet from the mainland to the island (line of sight over about 2 miles of water), and 5.8gHz works extremely well in similar line of sight situations and over many miles.  But put a few trees in the way and everything goes to pot at those frequencies!

[steve_qix]

Speaking about 900mHz equipment, check this link out:

https://www.radiolabs.com/products/wireless/900-mhz-wireless-bridge-link.php

Up to 150 megabits at 900mHz?  Talk about "taking up the whole band" !!!!  I wonder how true the thruput really is....  That's a lot of bandwidth at 900mHz.

[Steve - K4HX]

Looks a lot, if not exactly like the M9 Nanobridge by Ubiquity. You can get these from Microcom Technologies for $300 less than the Radio Labs item.

[steve_qix]

Looks a lot, if not exactly like the M9 Nanobridge by Ubiquity. You can get these from Microcom Technologies for $300 less than the Radio Labs item.

I think it is essentially the same item.  The RadioLabs price is for 2 units, but it's still $100 more than Ubiquity for the pair.  I use Ubiquity quite a bit, including for my existing 5.8 gHz link.  It's pretty good stuff.

[steve_qix]

Ok, after pricing out the fiber optic cable itself, the interfaces at each end, the connectors and of course the tools to build all of this, it was coming out to be pretty expensive......

So, I'm going to try 900mHz and see how that shoots through the trees.  I've used 900 megs in the past and it has worked OK, but the throughput was very poor - because that was the limitation of the equipment at the time (more than 10 years ago).

Now, there is 900 meg equipment that will move data at least 100 megabits per second, and this is what I'm going to try.

I truly appreciate all of the responses to the query, and if worst comes to worst, I may end up deploying the fiber after all, if the 900 meg link isn't up to the task.  I will report back once the 900 meg equipment is up and running.  Should be interesting !!!

Regards,  Steve

[KI4YAN]

This is my day job. None of what has been listed will work very long, fiber-wise.

Modern fiber is NOT plastic. Not what gets used for data links anyway.

Outdoor fiber is very expensive, but you can get it in armoured direct burial if you have the money. It will come on a single reel and will be one piece, with no connectors attached. It will be minimum of six-strand; I would probably put in six, but 12 is not out of the question. It's not that much more. It will need to be down at least 12", a few inches deep will not cut it. It's sensitive to shear loading and even the armoured can be broken easily by an ATV running over it if it's not down far enough. Unarmored is very easily broken just by being stepped on.

If you have never worked with fiber, it's got a steep learning curve for terminations and you will need good eyes and a light touch. With practice, it's about the same as terminating coax half the size of RG174, but no shield contact.

I would go with a 900Mhz link, myself. It'll be more reliable than a 2.4ghz link and less costly than fiber.

[steve_qix]

Thanks for the good info!  I'm going to see if the 900 mHz link will do the job - hopefully it will !!  I'll let you know.  The equipment is on order.  Should arrive sometime between Friday and next week, with next week being a more realistic time frame.  Then I'll have to wait for a good, not too windy day to climb up the tower and install everything on my end, and climb up on the roof of the building that's down near to the road and install the other (originating) end.

I have high hopes 

Regards,  Steve

[flintstone mop]

Fiber is wonderful until there is a problem. I have seen Verizon trucks that look like rolling labs where I guess they are repairing fiber or installing..
Fiber has been simplified somewhat to install the connectors, but still needs the special tools and know-how.
TV over fiber really does look better than the other services.
You have quite a project ahead of you, Steve. I hope your 900mhz hop is robust and basically speaking a good radio. Are you going to use panel type antennas or multi-element yagis? You'll have to consider losses in the length of the coax. I am guessing license free freqs.
There were articles in QST of folks using WIFI routers that were adapted with a real external antenna and they got some long distance out of those units.
Fred

[kb3ouk]

No coax if those things are like the 2.4 GHz link I set up down at the farm to get internet across the PA turnpike to my dad's parents. Just a single ethernet cable up to the unit, which carries power and data. With that setup, I was having trouble keeping a connection between the two units, so I got to messing around with it and realized I could hear the router down at my dad's house with the unit up at his parents' house, so I connected to that instead, and it's been working ever since.

[steve_qix]

The 900 mHz units I'm getting are integrated - antenna and transceiver - all in one unit.  The antenna is a parabolic reflector, and it uses power over ethernet.

I've installed quite a few point to point links and also point to multipoint links using 2.4gHz and 5.8gHz equipment.  They are super-reliable if you have true line of sight.  Up at Rattlesnake Island, the Internet is delivered using a 2.4mHz link over a couple of miles of water.  Here at the house, I have been getting Internet over a 5.8gHz link that's about 3.5 miles long.  Flawless for both of them !!!

If the path is unobstructed, you can get MANY miles and a very reliable link.

[W3LSN]

Satellite broadband is also worth considering.  DirectTV and several others offer Internet broadband packages including phone and TV.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/packages/internet?ACM=false&lpos=Header:3
http://www.hughesnet.com/
http://www.satellitebroadbandisp.com/

[flintstone mop]

Satellite broadband is also worth considering.  DirectTV and several others offer Internet broadband packages including phone and TV.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/content/packages/internet?ACM=false&lpos=Header:3
http://www.hughesnet.com/
http://www.satellitebroadbandisp.com/

Not a bad deal with SAT internet. About same price as cable TV internet. Not as fast as cable TV internet, kinda in between DSL and cable TV. Some latency in SAT internet so a voip is questionable.

Our Comcast cable internet is 25mbs down and 3mbs up.
Steve the units you describe are perfect. Connect Ethernet and away you go.
Fred

[W1ITT]

I hope you can build a 900 mhz system with a strapping path margin.  Around here the "smart meters" are running in the 900 mhz band, periodically banging away at each other until the data gets to a cellular distribution point down the road.  Perhaps some of the lads who use our amateur allocation in that band can give some information on the effects of congestion.  It might be informative to procure an adult beverage and sit down in front of a spectrum analyzer hooked to an antenna and see what that part of the ether looks like.

[W1RKW]

1000ft of 2 strand multimode fiber will run somewhere between $600 and $800 for indoor/outdoor in a conduit. Single mode will be a lot more. Like the cable  a multimode transciever will be less expensive. They average around $200 each. You'll need 2.  No repeater would be needed for 2000 ft.  Multimode cable will provide the throughput you're looking at. Going 900Mhz might be a lot cheaper and easier in the end especially if you're considering burying the fiber.