How do I identify scammers?

[W8UJX]

I recently placed an ad on QTH dot com for a Yaesu FT-990.  I received four answers.  One was an obvious scam.  Broken English etc.  When I requested his call sign and QTH he never got back to me.

Two of the others looked good but I was mainly interested in the third and told the other two I would get back to them.

The third had pretty good English and sent me some better fotos when I asked for them.  I checked his call on QRZ and got a really nice web page with pictures of the gear and family members.  So far, so good. 

It raised a red flag when he told me to send payment to a different address than that listed on his QRZ webpage.  He said it was his financial secretary's address.

I did some research on Google and found a friend of the person listed on the webpage.  I emailed the friend and asked him to contact XXX and verify the sale of the rig.  Turns out it was a scam.

I am 75 with a very painful medical condition which requires lots of narcotic pain meds.  The meds leave me dizzy, tired and easily confused.  I have never been scammed before so my guard was down.  Now I am paranoid.

I am still in the market for the FT-990.

Does anyone have an (almost) foolproof way to identify scammers?

Jerry, W8UJX since 1954
 



 

[W7TFO]

Hi Jerry,

Sorry to hear of your plight.

Shopping here and at hamfests (where you can touch something) is a good way to avoid most of the pitfalls.

Run an ad here for what you want, specifically.

73DG

[KA0HCP]

In my opinion, the "wanted' ads are primarily the ones that attract scammers.

The best way to avoid blatant scams is to watch the 'For sale' ads. Takes more patience, yes.

[WQ9E]

I agree with not placing want ads, at least on well known sites if you don't want to attract scammers.  You might have better luck with a Yaesu specific mailing list if it is a members only list since that will provide some scammer deterrence.

When ebay used to provide a listing of all the bidders after auction close there were often scammers who contacted the losing bidders offering to sell them an identical item.

[SM6OID]

Hi!

 I have done some shopping "on the internet", basically boat anchors and radio related stuff.
Based on ad were things are for sale. My experience tells me that you have two instruments that can help you, gut feeling and research using Google for instance. So far, this has helped me to avoid scammers.

As far as I know, there is no fool proof way of avoiding them.

I might add, there are "real scammers" and "light scammers", people that make very positive (false) descriptions of the gear. Either they are liars or they believe that the gear is in excellent condition, near mint, when it as been modified and/or repaired in a non professional way.

[K5UJ]

I would be wary of buying any expensive plastic radio on-line from an individual over a distance.  The chance of one being owned by an appliance op. who toasted it due to some act of stupidity and now wants to unload it is too high.  Maybe eBay where there is feedback is better but I have been ripped off there too, and if they have not changed anything, good luck getting any refund.  It is all tilted towards benefiting the seller in a dispute.

I'd only buy something loaded with chips and SMT components from a local where I could see it in operation first, or from a reputable dealer selling second hand gear, such as AES in Milwaukee.  You may pay more that way but I think you get some kind of limited warranty and they will have gone through it on their bench.

I'd start contacting the dealers--AES, HRO...there are a few others but I don't remember what they are--and ask if they sell used radios and take it from there.

[KD0HUX]

GO WITH YOUR GUT I PLACED AN AD HERE FOR A TUBE MICROPHONE AN AUDIO TECHNICA  AT3060  DEC 22 2011. I GOT 3 SCAMMERS FROM THE UNITED KINGDOM.   WHAT GAVE THEM AWAY??? STOCK PHOTOS         WESTERN UNION ONLY    BROKEN ENGLISH  HI JACKED OR FAKE CALL SIGNS.

[WA3VJB]

I agree with advice to buy from an Amateur Radio merchant who will warranty the radio. No arguments and they take credit cards. You can stop a transaction through your issuer if for some reason you don't get direct satisfaction and the radio has been misrepresented.

Perhaps you can limit your search to the region you're willing to travel within.  Then, you get a seller and offer to meet them at the next hamfest or at a public area to take a look. That should get rid of most of the scammers.  Take a friend with you and a camera.

I buy and sell inexpensive non-radio stuff on various local web pages for Craigs List, which in recent years has become dominated by scammers.

Yet, there are still effective ways to weed them out, and the methods ought to work on the Amateur radio classifieds where you will find what you're looking for.

The MOST effective way to avoid scammers corresponding over an ad is to list only my cellphone # and request a phone call or a text message. This requires them to disclose their own contact phone number and provides a way to interview the buyer or seller to try to determine if they're legit ahead of a deal.

Craigs List, being local, provides an opportunity to say that you must meet with them to see a potential purchase or display what you're selling. No shipping, and cash only.  Then you name a public place near a law enforcement surveillance camera. Personal security is important since a "buyer" could simply rob you, knowing you've got a few hundred dollars on you for the purchase.

The same thing could work regionally as you draw interest to your "wanted" posting or respond to an ad you've found. Simply say, right in the posting, no shipping, face to face deal only.

Tough world out there.

[W3GMS]

Another option is buy a used one from one of the Amateur Radio dealers that sells used gear.  You may even have one local to you.   I know Universal Radio has lots of used gear for sale.  True, you may pay a little more, but your on more solid footing! 

Good luck!

Joe, W3GMS 

[WBear2GCR]

OTOH, paypal has returned my money on more than one occasion when the item was NG. It is something of a hassle and takes a bit of time. You need proper documentation.

The scammers seem to have boundless energy.

I read that people who send out those stupid "viagra" emails typically pull in $7k per day!
Apparently, if you send out *millions* of emails a day, there are a percentage of dupes that respond. PT Barnum had it right. Or was that W.C. Fields?

The famous "Nigerian" scam - the money is in the bank, but I need a few thousand to cover expenses - made a lot of Africans money too... it really makes me wonder.

Hope you feel better Jerry...

                    _-_-bear

[W8UJX]

Thanks for the advice guys.  I am going to see if I can find some dealers offering used gear.  One that comes to mind is Associated Radio.

HUX - Are you saying that the scammers showed up here on AMFONE???  I have never been scammed before so my “shields” were down.

I received four answers to my ad and my gut tells me they are all scammers.  Un-frigging-believable.  One was obvious.  Here is the text of his reply.

Hello ,
How is your day going?
I saw your WTB advert,that's why am sending this mail.
I have YAESU FT-990 up for sale in an excellent condition.
Looking to read back from you soonest.
73

Could anyone actually believe that came from a legitimate seller?  I asked for his callsign and QTH and he never got back to me.

Another gave a callsign but asked that I send the money order to a different address than that listed on QRZ.  That raised a red flag and further investigation revealed that it was a scammer.

Three of the replies listed a callsign.  I noticed that when I looked at the webpage associated with each call sign that not one webpage listed an email address that I could use to contact the seller.  I’m not sure if that means anything.

Jerry, W8UJX

[W8ACR]

I guess we all have our tales of woe to tell, but I have come to the conclusion that no website is completely safe when you are dealing with private individuals who are located far away. If you are going to play the buy/sell on the internet game, sooner or later you will be burned in one way or another. Some people are scammers, and cheat others for a living. Some are just opportunists. I once made a deal to trade a Ten Tec Scout for an oscilloscope. This was from another website. I sent the Scout but 1 1/2 years later, I have never received anything in return, even though I was assured that the Scout would be returned to me. He is a legitimate ham, but the man is a thief, and guess what, he is a member of this website! Caveat emptor.

Ron W8ACR

[W2PFY]

He is a legitimate ham, but the man is a thief, and guess what, he is a member of this website! Caveat emptor.

Ron W8ACR

I would send a note to the management of this site, perhaps he does not belong here?

[W8ACR]

Nah Terry,  I'm over it. My point was that even a relatively small community like amfone has a few bad apples. If you play the game, you must accept the risk. There is no foolproof way to know for sure that you are dealing with an honest individual. The vast majority of hams are honest and delightful to deal with. A few are not. That's just the way it is. Deal with it.

As far as I'm concerned, this website is as good as it gets. You guys are great.

Ron

[K1JJ]

If I don't know the seller,  I closely watch the way he responds when axed this question:

"Is there anything about this used item electrically, cosmetically or operationally that does not make it perfect?"

If they brush it off and say "it's perfect," then beware.  

But most legit hams will then spill their guts and this gives you a chance to evaluate them.  In addition, they see you are a discriminating buyer and may think twice about selling you a clunker that may be returned and create trouble for both of you.

Some cons are slick and will pass the tests, but a good interview will usually give you a gut feeling of whether to proceed or not.

T

[K4RT]

I have never been scammed before so my guard was down.  Now I am paranoid.  [...] Does anyone have an (almost) foolproof way to identify scammers?

Jerry, W8UJX since 1954

Jerry,

Sounds like your instincts kicked in and your response was about as foolproof one could hope for.

Even if the ham radio dealer you contact doesn't have the FT-990 in stock at present you could ask them to let you know if they get a trade in.

I enjoyed the photos on your web site.