No more Peter Dahl parts sez Harbach

[W7TFO]

Harbach Electronics, which took over the Peter Dahl designs has announced on their website that they will be no longer building, selling, nor supporting the transformers, etc, that came to them when Peter Dahl retired, effective on February 14th.

http://www.harbachelectronics.com/

73DG

[W3GMS]

Disappointing, but not really surprised.  Like a lot of business, the commercial side tends to help the amateur side.  Peter Dahl had a good commercial business and that probably allowed him to support the Ham market. 

At this point, if I had an original transformer go bad in any gear around here, I would probably just send it to Gary, WZ1M to redo. 

I just hope someone buys the design information on all the transformers he had on file and is able to offer a service. 

Joe, W3GMS

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

It's no surprise. Not an easy business to run or take over, you need staying power in a market that needs fewer pieces of big iron. He gave it a go, at least. Hopefully he'll work something out with the other company to take it over.

There's a fellow down this way who builds good stuff, custom stuff, whatever you need. Also rebuilds/rewinds. I'll need to dig out his card to post the info but he's an interesting fellow from....Sweden maybe? Been here making transformers since the 60s I think he said. He's at most of the big hamfests down this way. Will see him at the Raleigh fest in a couple months. Last year he was telling me about the Hypersil transformers he was rebuilding for people a better way. Something to do with the laminations. Wish I'd taken notes.

Maybe he's the one Jeff is talking with.

[Steve - K4HX]

It's likely the commercial side is not what it used to be, so the business was unsustainable. The ham market is too small and hams are too cheap.

[WQ9E]

It's likely the commercial side is not what it used to be, so the business was unsustainable. The ham market is too small and hams are too cheap.

Bingo!  Which is why companies like MFJ prosper because they provide the quality level a majority of hams are willing to pay for even if they bitch about it.

MFJ is actually a pretty good source of parts and they make a large number of the RF parts and transformers from the Ameritron line available through their catalog.  I may be a little biased since MFJ is located in my home state of Mississippi

[kb3ouk]

I thought some of the bigger Ameritron amps used Peter Dahl transformers? In that case, MFJ might be the best choice to continue that line.

[John K5PRO]

I posted this over on the Oil Filled HV Capacitors thread:

"There are still a number of transformer manufacturers out there that can build HV magnetics besides the list posted here. For instance, Basler, SNC, American Magnetics, Stangenes, NWL are some that come to mind. They will all do small lots as well, but probably not 1 without a lot of money, as it costs to do the engineering first time."

I've bought from all of these, and they have made some good transformers, albeit using EI laminations of transformer steel. 

[W3GMS]

I thought some of the bigger Ameritron amps used Peter Dahl transformers? In that case, MFJ might be the best choice to continue that line.

My 10 year old  AL-82 does use Peter Dahl iron which that and the amp has been flawless for all these years. 

Joe, GMS

[K1JJ]

Sometimes the man IS the business. When he departs, so does the biz.  And times are changing.


Over the years, I've spent about $10K on iron with Peter Dahl. There are several  150 pound mod xfmrs floating around that I originally had custom made. He wasn't cheap and made a good living at it, but that was a different time and era.

As far as ham biz, the SDR, ricebox and solid state amplifier trend has certainly put a dent in iron sales. Though there are still plenty of tube amps around needing backup iron. And, the AM boatanchors.

Yep, MFJ has an impressive line of RF parts these days. I was very surprised a few weeks back when looking for a roller inductor.  MFJ taking over Dahl wud be an interesting spin-off.  If they are building amps and antennas, why not xfmrs too?  It wud lower the cost of their amplifier biz.   Martin is in a position to take over the ham WHIRL!


T

[Steve - K4HX]

Gotta wonder if the economics haven't moved in favor of HV switching supplies - no big iron required. Someone was selling a 2500 volt switcher for ham radio a few years ago, but I haven't seen any ads lately.

[K1JJ]

Gotta wonder if the economics haven't moved in favor of HV switching supplies - no big iron required. Someone was selling a 2500 volt switcher for ham radio a few years ago, but I haven't seen any ads lately.

Hmmmm... what a great idea.   I wud imagine the switching devices are the limitation. There are 2500V solid state devices I understand.

I wud love to build up a single 4KV HV supply and get rid of all this wasted space and iron.  
Being a high level stage, most amps are using no more than 15dB of gain, so switching noise is not an issue.

Have you seen any possible circuits there,  Big Country?

* Have you hooked up your phase rotator yet?    :-)


T

[Steve - K4HX]

Got the rotator in the mail yesterday. Gonna to some tests with and then see if I can install it in the DAP-310.

I've seen no circuits, but I would guess they wouldn't be significantly different from other switching supplies. Once one of the big amp companies jump, you'll see them more often. Or high power solid state RF tech will come along to the point that using tubes (even with a switching supply) won't make economic sense.

[John K5PRO]

There are some MOSFETs above 1 kV, but they are far fewer than the wide variety of IGBTs that can work up to 3-4 kV. Mind you, these are massive devices, not simple transistor packages. At work, a fellow designed a power supply for 100 kVDC with at least 40 Amps of pulsed output,using them.

[Steve - K4HX]

Depending on the design, the FETs, etc aren't switching 2.5 kV, only 200-300 volts. Devices in the 600-1 kV range abound.

This dude built his own: 1.5 kV, 750 mA.

http://w5jgv.com/hv-ps1/index.htm


There was an article in QEX, February, 1991 on an HV switcher.

[K1JJ]

Funny, I was just going to post that link...

Man, this technology sure is different than usual. A little like the E-rig in ways.  Using a PWM source and lots of parts. More complicated than a brute force PS. 

Still, it is interesting if it can be scaled up for a QRO amplifier. Reduce size and weight tremendosly.

The HV scare factor reminds me of my old 4X1 PDM AM rig with floating grid and screen supplies at full HV.

T

[John K5PRO]

This thread has drifted a bit from topic but....

Here are some innovative uses for switchers for HV power:
I have been using four switchers made by Glassman HV for my power amplifier design at work for several years. The IPA and final stages are both using grid bias and screen bias supplies that are non conventional (not linear regulators). Control grids run about -500 VDC, the bigger tube uses a 10 Amp supply. The screen grid for the bigger tube is 1500 VDC at 6 Amps. The filaments for both tubes are using Sorensen SGA switchers, very nice boxes. For the final stage, its 19 VDC at 950 Amps. Previously I used a SCR phased mains supply that was 700 lbs and a POS.

Plate supply for the final stage is good for 30 kV and 40 Amps DC. It has 225 uF of capacitance in the vault with a high speed active crowbar system. The charging supply is non conventional also, in that it has 96 x 1200 V power supplies wired in series, each one switched by fiber optic link from a controller. The switching is at high speed around 70 KHz, so there is not one module switched on very long. The switched device is a 1800V IGBT. The two primary transformers are fed of 4160 VAC line, and have each 48 secondary windings, each one isolated and three phase, for the 1200 V modules. Overall the power supply is larger than a living room. This morning the primary power being drawn from the line is 330 kW!

[N4LTA]

Does Sandy Glassman still run Glassman High Voltage? I used to work with him when he made ESA units for gravure printing presses. We had lots of fun getting a 2000 volt power supplied certified as intrinsically safe for use on a gravure press with tolulene solvents. CSA finally certified them and Glassman sold hundreds of them. I used to get allo my high voltage 5 KV wire from work that was used on the ESA units.
ESA was Electro Static Assist and pulled the wet ink from the printing cylinder into the paper.

Pat
N4LTA

[John K5PRO]

Hi Pat,
I don't know if Sandy is still there. I forget the chief engineer's name that I spoke with last year, but he wasn't of the Glassman family. That's a pretty neat application of HV, in printing.

I bought that Hammond transformer from you last month, its nice.
73

[WD5JKO]

Does Sandy Glassman still run Glassman High Voltage?
Pat
N4LTA

   A few years ago I needed to take a Glassman HV supply and re-scale the analog I/O to be used in a different application. I studied the schematic, and called Glassman for their input. So Sandy Glassman answers the phone, and in a few minutes there are several engineers at Glassman in a conference room. We talked about 20 minutes. They made a few suggestions beyond what I was going to do. later after I built a PCB, characterized it, made a schematic, etc. I sent them an email with the data. I get a call back from them, and another discussion took place. What a great company....

Jim
WD5JKO

[AJ1G]

Don't know why it's not posted on this thread, but there is a new posting as of yesterday from Harbach in Announcements that the Peter Dahl product line is being taken up by Hammond in Canada and NY....will be in place by the end of March or so....

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Here's the announcement on Jeff's web site: http://www.harbachelectronics.com/

[N4LTA]

I am a Hammond distributor. That is good news I hope. I fear that the prices may be high though.

They recently had a serious price increase with their audio transformers.

I have begged thm to build a line of modualtion transformers in the past to a deaf ear.

Pat
N4LTA

[WQ9E]

Pat,

I am just glad to see that someone with the capability to manufacture this line picked it up.  Dahl transformers have never been cheap for individual amateurs although I am sure ETO/Alpha, Ameritron, and others got a decent price schedule.

Much better to have them rather expensive than not available at all. 

And thanks for being a distributor!

[W7TFO]

Lots better news than it going to MFJ.

73DG

[Opcom]

Maybe if Hammond gets the high voltage tech. they can build modulation transformers as well as special output transformers for things like the Altec 1570B, 175W with 811A's at 930V

How about a 10KCT to 4/8/16 Ohm 250W@20Hz-30KHz +/-1dB unit for 811's at 1250V. No one has been willing to make this 'hi-fi' part for me.

I would expect that to run about $500 and am not one to whine about audiophool nuances, but I guess there are some things money can't buy. Geez I am sorry I just like tubes -and- a big stereo. Some one save me from a 100Hz-20K power bandwidth!

Lastly, maybe the value of the Dahl BC-5 mod iron sitting on a cart here will go up now. I have no idea what to do with it haha it was thrown in for $50 with a BTA-250 transmitter.