845 tubes = gold?

[KE6DF]

Wow, I just noticed someone on ebay selling a pair of NOS RCA 845 tubes.

With over 14 hrs left in the auction, the price is already over $3200 with 20 bids.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170912592750?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Given you can get a pair of brand new Chinese 845s for around $150, can these RCA tubes really sound enough better to be worth that much?

Or is this a case of more money than brains.

I've heard good things about some of the Chinese 845s, FWIW

Dave

[kb3ouk]

well let's see:
The tubes started at $0.99
Bidder A bids $2
Bidder B counters with a bid of $5
Bidder A must've wanted them so he goes to $10
Bidder C bids a dollar bringing the price to $11
Bidder B goes to $15
Bidder E thinks he needs those tubes so he bids $200
Bidder F wants them too so he bids $500
Bidder E must REALLY want those tubes, as he bids $900, then $1500, and finally $2050
Bidder G joins the battle over the 845s and bids $2100
Bidder H decides no one but him should get the tubes, as he bids $2333, $2544, $2666, $2999, $3111, and $3222
Bidder I is current bidder so far at $3272

I would laugh if the tubes were shipped via UPS and ended up smashed by the time they got to the buyer.

Now if you want cheaper tubes that are close to being the same as 845s, Russian GM70s are basically an 845 on steroids.

[W7TFO]

The "sound" of Chinese tubes is one thing.  A very subjective thing, but they are probably OK in that category.

Emission life is another entirely.  I've never seen a DHT in audio service from China hold up for long.  Some 845's went flat in less than two weeks time....

I've seen US-made 845's in a Gates AM transmitter run over 10 years.

73DG

[WBear2GCR]

betcha it gets shipped to asia.

                _-_-bear

[W7TFO]

Nobody in the US pays that kind of money.  We trade amongst ourselves...

73DG

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Actually, they do. I moved out a bunch of these a couple years back. The most expensive were a pair of Amperex in their boxes, sold to someone in 6 Land. I think the rest were RCAs that went overseas as well as to the US. I was and still am amazed at the prices they brought. The money went to other, more important needs than a bunch of old tubes sitting in the garage. Nothing I have uses them or likely ever will.

I did have interest from one tube dealer who is a member here when I first mentioned selling them. I responded that I knew he had to make a few dollars on them so I'd entertain a package deal or such. Never heard back. Left me with the feeling that he thought I was just some dumb ham who didn't know what I had, and he lost interest as soon as he discovered they wouldn't be $5 each.

Have heard that the Chinese versions work just fine, though the envelope is a tad smaller as I recall. Your report on longevity (or lack thereof) is the first I've heard, Dennis.

[KE6DF]

Have heard that the Chinese versions work just fine, though the envelope is a tad smaller as I recall. Your report on longevity (or lack thereof) is the first I've heard, Dennis.

I thought that was a interesting comment by Dennis also.

I wonder if there are still some broadcast transmitters out there that use 845s on a 24/7 basis.

That would give the chinese tubes a real test. I suspect that most hams and audio types that use 845s don't put the hours on them that a broadcast rig would.

Most of those old TXs are either in ham shacks or land fills or parted out.

I recently came by a mod driver deck from a BC-1E that used two 845s to drive 833s -- with a huge driver transformer, but alas no tubes.

[WD5JKO]

Here is a nice 2X 845 SE monobloc design good for 55 watts:

http://www.turneraudio.com.au/monobloc845se55.html

There is some discussion of the Chinese 845 used for testing, and other types. Not everybody designs, and winds their own audio output and power transformers, but Patrick Turner does.

Jim
WD5JKO

[W7TFO]

845's hardly ever do anything in transmitters now, but lots of them are used in high-end audio amplifiers.  By the same people spend >$5K for speaker cables.

Usually in Asia.  Some in Europe, scant few here in the USA.

In single-ended service, running class "A", the job is tough with lots of electron flow.  Crappy filament coatings don't cut it for the well-monied audiophool.

Todds' tubes prolly went over there anyway through a 2-stepper.

The audio $ world of DHT's is insane.  I'm sure Bear will confirm.

73DG

[WBear2GCR]

Now that there is a paw-city of NOS American tubes, the prices seem to be exponentially increasing.

So it goes...

The same is happening to certain Jfets and even small Mosfets to a lesser extent.

So far almost nobody has stepped in to buy & run the older semiconductor lines...


                        _-_-bear

[KM1H]

I sold my fairly large stash of NIB USN AX, GE and RCA 845's for ridiculous money up to about 18 months ago when I ran out. Dont remember a wide spread between brands but they were sold over about 5 years.
I played with US dealers and asked for quotes and those SOB bandits were offering $40-50 each! Never trust a tube dealer.

Almost all went to Japan and Korea.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Todds' tubes prolly went over there anyway through a 2-stepper.

I know the Amperex and some others stayed here as I exchanged email and photos of gear with a couple of the guys. No doubt some went overseas that sold here, though I had no restriction on shipping overseas. I did try that on some Collins gear I sold because I didn't have time to deal with the paperwork to ship overseas and discovered there are numerous Pacific Rim buyers with 6 Land addresses. Fine by me.

Sold a bunch of VT-4C/211s too, but for nowhere near as much. Lower power level being the reason, no doubt.

[W7TFO]

Sold a bunch of VT-4C/211s too, but for nowhere near as much. Lower power level being the reason, no doubt.

No, same Po.  Higher mU.

73DG

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Huh. I must've read the sheet wrong. Thought they were about 50% lower in overall output.

Good to know, I've still got a few of those kicking around.

[W7TFO]

Most 845's live in a single-ended audio amp world.

The 211 is popular as well, but the mU of 12 makes it a bit harder to match, plate-wise.  It is a lot happier in class 'B' PP

Both have the same dissipation, but output power really depends on what class it operates in.

Some amp guys even run 838's, with a bunch of copper on that plate...

73DG

[k4kyv]

I have a couple dozen 845s in my stash, all used, no N.O.S., but I'd bet money that a good percentage are good as new.  Saving them for class-B driver service; have the Thordarson Tru-Fidelity driver transformer to match a pair to class-B 849s or 833As, a spare Chicago driver xfmr removed from a BC1F, as well as a complete RA-1000 audio driver unit.  My present 8005/805 rig uses a pair to drive the 805 modulators (circuit and components lifted right out of an RCA pre WWII 250W broadcast transmitter). The 845s will NOT go to Asia or to domestic more-money-than-brains types, at any price. 

Eat your hearts out, audiophools.

[Opcom]

Make 'em really suffer, show pictures!!

[John K5PRO]

Some audiophools seem to have more money than brain cells. Dat's a fact.

[kb3ouk]

I have a small stash of 1930s tubes that are probably on some audiophool's wish list, but I'm not letting them go, even though I don't have any planned use for them.

[KM1H]

So sell or swap with one of us that will actually use them as intended! Im always looking for oldies for stuff here.

Carl

[kb3ouk]

If I can remember where I put all of them I would. All of them are little receiver tubes, though. A lot of low power audio triodes. No transmitting stuff.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

So sell or swap with one of us that will actually use them as intended! Im always looking for oldies for stuff here.

I'd have (and have had) no problem doing that with you and numerous others, Carl. Problem seems to be that when you advertise something of perceived value you attract the folks think you should give it to them for free or next to nothing, even in a trade. If you have it, it's worthless. If they have it, it's priceless. That kind of deal.

Nothing here uses 845s and the money was much appreciated for other projects. Sold a dozen or so, the lowest priced tube brought over double what I paid for the truckload of stuff including the tubes back in the early 80s. Funny part is, I gave away half a dozen or so NOS RCAs as paperweights, complete with new Johnson porcelain sockets. Nobody wanted 'em then.

Other side of the coin: in 2005 I saved an old Raytheon RA-1000 from WGAI in NC (how ironic) that was scheduled to be bulldozed. They had purchased another RA-1000 for parts and had a lot of extras including tubes. IIRC, I ended up with 20 845s and 20 833s. When plans changed I sold them all with the transmitter with for $1500 including new Dahl plate iron. Many folks told me I was nuts for not selling the extra tubes separately. Wasn't looking for money then and including them for the new owner who is a decent guy seemed like the thing to do. Hopefully he'll make a few bucks off the excess. So, either way, someone will think you're nuts.

Did take some photos at least, including one of the tubes. Only a few are actually visible. 845s were a mix of RCA & Penta, 833s were RCA & National (China).

[Steve - K4HX]

Move it on if you aren't using it. The stuff these hoarders cling to will more than likely wind up in the landfill. What a waste.

[KM1H]

Ive been doing that for several years especially with audiophool tubes I'll never use. Then recycle all that "found money" back into something useful.