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Author Topic: Samsung Home Theater Amps with Tubes  (Read 2705 times)
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Tom WA3KLR
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« on: April 26, 2012, 09:42:10 PM »

I am going through the May issue of Popular Mechanics tonight and on the back inside cover page is an ad for Samsung which mentions vacuum tube technology.  There are two tube/digital technology home theater amplifiers offered.  The ad illustration shows two tubes side by side which look identical and appear to be 12AX7-like.  

Here is one of the related webpages :

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/home-theater/HT-E6730W/ZA
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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2012, 10:43:01 PM »

see: http://www.live.samsungus.webcollage.net/server/abtelectronics/samsungus-product-content/httpb?ws-action=http://www.live.samsungus.webcollage.net/samsungus/feed/products/ht-e6730w-za/features.html?tab%3dfeatures-cc9bfc30%26channel-product-id%3d59847%26wcpc%3dht-e6730w-za%26tab-caption%3dFeatures%26tab-code%3dfeatures%26tab-var%3dcc9bfc30%26showtabs%3dtrue%26format%3dpopup%26is-in-showcase%3dfalse~&ws-containerurl=http://content.webcollage.net/abtelectronics/product-content-page?channel-product-id%3d59847%26wcpid%3dsamsungus-ht-e6730w-za%26report-event%3dproduct-button-click%26usemap%3d0&wcpc=ht-e6730w-za&enable-reporting=true&showtabs=&channel-product-id=59847&MarkupType=document&PresentationFormat=html

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Pete, WA2CWA - "A cluttered desk is a sign of genius"
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« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2012, 12:23:49 AM »

Interesting disparity in product weight and shipping weight:

Dimensions & Weight

    Product Dimensions: 16.93" (W) x 2.48" (H) x 12.4" (D)
    Product Weight: 8.49 lbs.
    Shipping Dimensions: 36.26" (W) x 15.63" (H) x 17.56" (D)
    Shipping Weight: 60.63 lbs.

I wonder what they're using for a power supply for the tubes. 1330 watts out of 8.5 pounds is quite an achievement with tubes.
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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2012, 02:56:55 AM »

Interesting disparity in product weight and shipping weight:

Dimensions & Weight

    Product Dimensions: 16.93" (W) x 2.48" (H) x 12.4" (D)
    Product Weight: 8.49 lbs.
    Shipping Dimensions: 36.26" (W) x 15.63" (H) x 17.56" (D)
    Shipping Weight: 60.63 lbs.

I wonder what they're using for a power supply for the tubes. 1330 watts out of 8.5 pounds is quite an achievement with tubes.
The 8.49 pounds is just for the amplifier. The rest of the poundage is the speakers. I'm sure the tubes have little to do with the power output. Most of these systems use switching supplies. A lot of bang with a small footprint. Eight channels boils down to roughly 166 watts each but no clue if RMS, IHF, IHF +/- 1 db, or some other screwy output rating.
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« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2012, 06:38:03 AM »

They will use tubes in the front end of an amp and the rest is solid state. They also use LED's in the base of the small tubes to give more glitter and glam.
Are the KT88's mounted sideways? Are they using a different technology that doesn't require output transformers for the tube finals? No way that 8 lbs is a complete tube amp.
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« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2012, 07:04:14 AM »

How much does it list for?  Sounds like a big glass audio ripoff.  12ax7 is a pre-amp tube.  It probably is "starved plate," glass audio lingo which means B+ ridiculously low so the tube essentially is not functioning but sits there with 12 v. looking pretty.
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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2012, 09:54:36 AM »

Probably using a transformerless power supply, and then the tubes are running in something like a cathode-follower.
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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2012, 10:35:28 AM »


Are the KT88's mounted sideways? Are they using a different technology that doesn't require output transformers for the tube finals? No way that 8 lbs is a complete tube amp.

What are you looking at?HuhHuh? The model in this thread makes no reference to a complete tube amp much less KT-88's.
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2012, 10:38:28 AM »

How much does it list for?  Sounds like a big glass audio ripoff.  12ax7 is a pre-amp tube.  It probably is "starved plate," glass audio lingo which means B+ ridiculously low so the tube essentially is not functioning but sits there with 12 v. looking pretty.

$999.99 list
$899 or $897 at the retail/mail order  level.

Tubes are probably in front-end design simpler to the tube/solid-state computer sound card on the market. It's easy to add a "high voltage" using simple DC to DC converters with a switching supply. In a A/V receiver I have, the power supply provides 5, 12, 18, and 48 volts to power various circuits. 48 volts powers the display.
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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2012, 10:51:02 AM »

$999.99 list
$899 or $897 at the retail/mail order  level.

Jeez, it's worse than I thought.  You could get a couple of vintage Heathkit p.p. amps at a flea market for 1/10 to 1/5th the list price.  Probably even better deals at garage sales.  Lots of Grommes, and Stromburg Carlson old amps out there that mostly just need recapping.
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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2012, 11:02:08 AM »

$999.99 list
$899 or $897 at the retail/mail order  level.

Jeez, it's worse than I thought.  You could get a couple of vintage Heathkit p.p. amps at a flea market for 1/10 to 1/5th the list price.  Probably even better deals at garage sales.  Lots of Grommes, and Stromburg Carlson old amps out there that mostly just need recapping.

This is not a system that flea market or garage sale crawlers would probably embrace. This is designed for the 3D Blu-ray DVD/Network viewing people and those people who have money to burn on "wowness".
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Tom WA3KLR
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« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2012, 02:56:25 PM »

I think we need Mike Raide to write "Reading Comprehension 101 for Amateurs".
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« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2012, 08:36:14 PM »

There was one so called tube amp that had a glass window behind which two similar tubes were placed. the filaments were connected but nothing else. A complete scam.

Some might be satisfied with a cathode follower but to me it's the compression when cranked that makes for part of the tube sound as well as a push pull circuit with a transformer.

They could at least put the 12AX7 sections in push pull through a small transformer with an appropriate non inductive load resistance and used that to drive the power amplifier.

Samsung is surely not at the top of the list when I think of "wowness". I don't know what they make today but when their appliances were first available, they made the most self-burning-out and cheaply designed TV sets I had ever had the dubious pleasure of servicing. The things would burn the circuit board under too-small resistors and also arc around leads burning the board, and eventually pop the flyback, almost insuring them to be not economical to repair.
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« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2012, 09:20:29 PM »

Quote
I think we need Mike Raide to write "Reading Comprehension 101 for Amateurs".

I run into this across almost all forums. This is one of the better ones by far.

"Reading Comprehension for Dummies" should be in every electronics and ham store.
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« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2012, 09:39:49 PM »

But long before we had the fake tube amps there was Midwest Radio corp. with their floor standing radios with inflated tube count and "power saver" circuit.   Some models had tubes with no other connection other than the filament but for even more marketing mileage they included an economizer switch so these tube filaments could be shut off when "full performance" wasn't needed for local coverage.

They did make some interesting looking receivers and many command high collector prices.  The old ads were interesting and they used a number of Hollywood personalities in their advertising campaigns.
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« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2012, 09:41:18 PM »

They probably don't care how perfect it sounds, just as long as it says "tube", then the idiots will bite. Makes me think of those little plastic fishing lures that look like a worm, problem is most fish aren't dumb and know the difference (believe me, I know). Something makes me think fish are smarter than audiophools.
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« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2012, 10:40:09 PM »

Samsung is surely not at the top of the list when I think of "wowness". I don't know what they make today but when their appliances were first available, they made the most self-burning-out and cheaply designed TV sets I had ever had the dubious pleasure of servicing. The things would burn the circuit board under too-small resistors and also arc around leads burning the board, and eventually pop the flyback, almost insuring them to be not economical to repair.
Their TV's (Smart TV and/or 3D versions) are rated quite good by a number of sources.  Likewise, their home theater systems are also rated very well. I also heard that they OEM several TV models to other well known names.
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« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2012, 10:56:41 PM »

For those that don't want 7.1 channels, this version is available:
Home Theater System with Vacuum Tube & Digital Amp (HT-E6500W)
Features: http://www.samsung.com/us/video/home-theater/HT-E6500W/ZA-features Looks like same box less two channels.


And, here is the operating manual for the model (HT-E6730W) mentioned by Tom in the opening thread:
http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/201203/20120319210742201/02464A_HT-E6730W_ZA_01_0314.pdf  Note: reading comprehension is required.
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Tom WA3KLR
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« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2012, 01:56:40 PM »

I found this sketchy review on the web for related Samsung products.  The reviewer mentions JJ Electronics 12AU7ís in the hybrid design :

http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/27/samsungs-vacuum-tube-driven-speaker-lineup-gets-priced-for-us/

So does Tom Vu have a vacuum tube side business now? No.  JJ Electronics is a Slovak Republic tube company.  They make quite a few types of the dual-triodes :

http://www.jj-electronic.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11&Itemid=2
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« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2012, 02:40:05 PM »

As an added touch, its JJ Electronics 12AU7 tubes (the same you could use for guitar amps) are sunken in from its top under glass, allowing for clear view of their glow.

The "glow":



A lava lamp on top of the unit would give you better glow:

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Pete, WA2CWA - "A cluttered desk is a sign of genius"
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« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2012, 05:47:22 PM »

A much better glow.  You could have it behind glass.


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« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2012, 07:46:17 PM »

As an added touch, its JJ Electronics 12AU7 tubes (the same you could use for guitar amps) are sunken in from its top under glass, allowing for clear view of their glow.

The "glow":



A lava lamp on top of the unit would give you better glow:



The glow looks suspiciously like an orange LED's color. I suppose if people are pleased with their purchase, it does not affect my listening. let them have at it and be happy.
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