Bomber 4D32 tube

[KC2TAU]

Frank I think the logic was it ran cooler. Imagine trying to take a high speed turn with that spinning mass.
did the french ever build a good car?

Yes, quite a few. For a start there is the Peugeot 205 GTI which was the main competitor to the Volkswagen Golf GTI. It provided an affordable high performance compact car that still had plenty of space for storage and still returned reasonable gas mileage. It shined, though, in it's sheer willingness to be driven enthusiastically. It may not have had much power but with the chassis being so competent it could cover ground on back grounds at an exceptionally quick pace. The French have always been very smart when it comes to designing cars that handle well but also offer good ride comfort. Another example would be the Citroen SM which used Maserati power with Citroen's hydropneumatic to create a long legged GT that is still regarded today as one of the best of its class.

The French were also very good at integrating art into practical design. They made cars that not only looked ahead of their time but also offered technological advancements that, up until that time, were reserved only for luxury cars. The Citroen DS was the first mass production car with front disc brakes. It also featured a semi-automatic transmission as well as an adjustable suspension that always self leveled. The DS was so popular that when it was unveiled at the 1955 Paris Motor Show 743 orders were taken in the first 15 minutes.

[WA1GFZ]

I thought the citroen was an ugly HOS.
My wife bought an allience new. I had better steering on the wood thing I built using my baby carriage wheels we rode down hills. After 2 years it started falling apart and she unloaded it. It was the worst POS I ever drove.
The garage she traded it in was a friend of her family. He couldn't sell it so he mounted a blade on the front and used it to push snow.

[KC2TAU]

Which Citroen are you referring to? The Alliance was by Renault, not by Citroen. The Alliance was not made by Renault, though. It was made by American Motors in Kenosha, Wisconsin. American Motors was in quite a bit of trouble financially from poor sales due to questionable build quality and models that were being updated less and less frequently. Renault eventually bought a controlling share in AMC. This kept AMC afloat and gave Renault a dealer network in the US.

[KM1H]

I could always tell when I was in France as it had the ugliest and most dilapidated cars of any major country, I thought I was in Portugal or maybe Senegal.

[KC2TAU]

I could always tell when I was in France as it had the ugliest and most dilapidated cars of any major country, I thought I was in Portugal or maybe Senegal.

I find this peculiar considering how the vehicle inspections in Europe are far more stringent than those in the United States. Some of the things I've seen on American roads beggars belief.

[w3jn]

Frank I think the logic was it ran cooler. Imagine trying to take a high speed turn with that spinning mass.
did the french ever build a good car?

Yes, quite a few. For a start there is the Peugeot 205 GTI which was the main competitor to the Volkswagen Golf GTI. It provided an affordable high performance compact car that still had plenty of space for storage and still returned reasonable gas mileage. It shined, though, in it's sheer willingness to be driven enthusiastically. It may not have had much power but with the chassis being so competent it could cover ground on back grounds at an exceptionally quick pace. The French have always been very smart when it comes to designing cars that handle well but also offer good ride comfort. Another example would be the Citroen SM which used Maserati power with Citroen's hydropneumatic to create a long legged GT that is still regarded today as one of the best of its class.

The French were also very good at integrating art into practical design. They made cars that not only looked ahead of their time but also offered technological advancements that, up until that time, were reserved only for luxury cars. The Citroen DS was the first mass production car with front disc brakes. It also featured a semi-automatic transmission as well as an adjustable suspension that always self leveled. The DS was so popular that when it was unveiled at the 1955 Paris Motor Show 743 orders were taken in the first 15 minutes.

Having wrenched on a Citroen SM years ago, it's one of the sorriest POS ever made.  I think only the Maserati BiTurbo was worse.

The Citroen DS, while certainly an engineering leap forward, didn't even begin to be in the same class as a contemporary Chevy, Ford, or Plymouth in the reliability department; one reason was the combined hydraulic steering/self-leveling suspension.  In its favor, it at least wasn't a rolling fire hazard like the SM.

[w3jn]

I knew a B17 driver who blew a bottom jug off when he lost a ring and it filled up with oil. He had the piston sitting on his desk that held his smoking pipes.

And therein lies the achilles heel with radial engines.  The bottom jugs can fill with oil and cause a hydro lock if care isn't taken in the starting process.  Either pull the prop through several revolutions by hand, or count a half dozen or so blades when cranking the starter before you hit the magnetos.  That's the reason radials are so smokey on startup.

[KC2TAU]

Frank I think the logic was it ran cooler. Imagine trying to take a high speed turn with that spinning mass.
did the french ever build a good car?

Yes, quite a few. For a start there is the Peugeot 205 GTI which was the main competitor to the Volkswagen Golf GTI. It provided an affordable high performance compact car that still had plenty of space for storage and still returned reasonable gas mileage. It shined, though, in it's sheer willingness to be driven enthusiastically. It may not have had much power but with the chassis being so competent it could cover ground on back grounds at an exceptionally quick pace. The French have always been very smart when it comes to designing cars that handle well but also offer good ride comfort. Another example would be the Citroen SM which used Maserati power with Citroen's hydropneumatic to create a long legged GT that is still regarded today as one of the best of its class.

The French were also very good at integrating art into practical design. They made cars that not only looked ahead of their time but also offered technological advancements that, up until that time, were reserved only for luxury cars. The Citroen DS was the first mass production car with front disc brakes. It also featured a semi-automatic transmission as well as an adjustable suspension that always self leveled. The DS was so popular that when it was unveiled at the 1955 Paris Motor Show 743 orders were taken in the first 15 minutes.

Having wrenched on a Citroen SM years ago, it's one of the sorriest POS ever made.  I think only the Maserati BiTurbo was worse.

The Citroen DS, while certainly an engineering leap forward, didn't even begin to be in the same class as a contemporary Chevy, Ford, or Plymouth in the reliability department; one reason was the combined hydraulic steering/self-leveling suspension.  In its favor, it at least wasn't a rolling fire hazard like the SM.

The only issue I can remember with the SM was the fact that the valves would shear at their stems. If I remember correctly this was due to Maserati having used sodium filled valves which were failure prone. Time and research has since fixed these issues and now, beyond regular maintenance, they're reliable cars. Most of the bad press comes from people who didn't take care of their cars. You can't expect to defer maintenance and hide from the consequences forever.

The only time the self leveling suspension would give issues would give problems is when it wasn't looked after. That was it. It's not that difficult to work on and provides a ride quality that a contemporary Chevy, Ford or Plymouth could not match. I wouldn't speak too highly of Mopar built quality, at least from the 1960's and 70's. Have you ever seen the variances in panel gaps on one?

[KM1H]

I find this peculiar considering how the vehicle inspections in Europe are far more stringent than those in the United States. Some of the things I've seen on American roads beggars belief

.

We are talking about France and not the continent. When was the last time you were there and where?

[KB2WIG]

I knew a B17 driver who blew a bottom jug off when he lost a ring and it filled up with oil. He had the piston sitting on his desk that held his smoking pipes.

And therein lies the achilles heel with radial engines.  The bottom jugs can fill with oil and cause a hydro lock if care isn't taken in the starting process.  Either pull the prop through several revolutions by hand, or count a half dozen or so blades when cranking the starter before you hit the magnetos.  That's the reason radials are so smokey on startup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IACjOvyx5hs


" We are talking about France and not the continent"

I like their fries.

klc

[KC2TAU]

I find this peculiar considering how the vehicle inspections in Europe are far more stringent than those in the United States. Some of the things I've seen on American roads beggars belief

.

We are talking about France and not the continent. When was the last time you were there and where?

Yes and I was explaining that as a whole (France included) Europe's vehicle inspection program is far more stringent than it is here in the United States. I was last in northern France in 2001.

[WA1GFZ]

I'm so ticked off at my 2001 silverado with 140K miles. I had to replace my first light today. The little wire inside the bulb was intermittant.

[KC2TAU]

I'm so ticked off at my 2001 silverado with 140K miles. I had to replace my first light today. The little wire inside the bulb was intermittant.

That's impressive to see you have 140k on it. How is the body?

[KM1H]

I dont even expect any of my American cars to need more than consumables before 200K. Except for a few 60's Brits that I installed Chevy V-8's in the 60's and 70's the closest thing to foreign in this family has been a pair of Volvos, built in MD and a few older 240's that also got V-8's to have fun with and flip for a nice profit.

My last EU trip was last year on a visit to my USAF Major son who lives in Germany and the side trip into France didnt look much diferent than any other time, plenty of shitboxes everywhere. Ive always considered it a 3rd world country since my USN visits in the early 60's.

[W2PFY]

France didn't look much different than any other time, plenty of shitboxes everywhere. Ive always considered it a 3rd world country since my USN visits in the early 60's.

Did it stink over there?

[KC2TAU]

I dont even expect any of my American cars to need more than consumables before 200K. Except for a few 60's Brits that I installed Chevy V-8's in the 60's and 70's the closest thing to foreign in this family has been a pair of Volvos, built in MD and a few older 240's that also got V-8's to have fun with and flip for a nice profit.

My last EU trip was last year on a visit to my USAF Major son who lives in Germany and the side trip into France didnt look much diferent than any other time, plenty of shitboxes everywhere. Ive always considered it a 3rd world country since my USN visits in the early 60's.

It certainly seems like our opinions differ greatly.

[WA3VJB]

So we've gone from tubes to bombers to cars.  
Cool thread.

Got the '64 out today for a cruise ... came back and it's 10 miles short of 207,000


Started right up. Hasn't been run since September.

Even the dashboard is more fun than what's out there now.

[KC2ZFA]

It certainly seems like our opinions differ greatly.

You know you're in a third world country when you see things like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TGV or this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France or this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel or this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde

[KM1H]

Did it stink over there?

Soap still seems to be in short supply but the perfume industry is profitable.

Got the '64 out today for a cruise

Gotta love those old Dynaslows or does that one have a PG?

You know you're in a third world country when you see things like this

Several visible frills while the population is in turmoil and parts still are in the medieval ages. Sorry but Im not a lockstep Francophile.

[WA3VJB]

Got the '64 out today for a cruise

Gotta love those old Dynaslows or does that one have a PG?

It's a little newer than the DF.  SuperTurbine 400.  That's what came in the Electramobile, Riviera and Wildcat. The LeSabre got the ST300.

Turns out KA1KAQ/Todd's sister had a boyfriend with a '64 Wildcat he was telling me about last night on 3707Kc.  Convertible !  That's a chick magnet, then and now. Mine?  It's a sedan. Bench seats. My grandfather was the original owner,  and now I guess I'm closer to his demographic these days ...

Let's see - let me do the math.  Yeup, he bought it new when he was 67.  That's a little scary for me, whoa.

[W2VW]

Which Citroen are you referring to? The Alliance was by Renault, not by Citroen. The Alliance was not made by Renault, though. It was made by American Motors in Kenosha, Wisconsin. American Motors was in quite a bit of trouble financially from poor sales due to questionable build quality and models that were being updated less and less frequently. Renault eventually bought a controlling share in AMC. This kept AMC afloat and gave Renault a dealer network in the US.

This taught me magazine authors can be bought.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/dishonorable-mention-the-10-most-embarrassing-award-winners-in-automotive-history

[KC2TAU]

Which Citroen are you referring to? The Alliance was by Renault, not by Citroen. The Alliance was not made by Renault, though. It was made by American Motors in Kenosha, Wisconsin. American Motors was in quite a bit of trouble financially from poor sales due to questionable build quality and models that were being updated less and less frequently. Renault eventually bought a controlling share in AMC. This kept AMC afloat and gave Renault a dealer network in the US.

This taught me magazine authors can be bought.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/dishonorable-mention-the-10-most-embarrassing-award-winners-in-automotive-history

I remember reading about how the Alliance earned Car of the Year. That certainly was a bit peculiar. Sometimes, though, a car, when new, can be impressive but it might not hold up very well over time. There also can be biases at play as well but the Vega, really?  

I read an article where Joe Oldham, writer for the magazine Hi-Performance Cars, had tested an AMX around 1971. He was with his test driver in the middle of NYC. They came to a stop at a traffic light and one of them pointed out that they found it odd that there was a tired wheel rolling down the street next to them. After some investigation they had realized that the wheel was their own! The wheel had sheared off at the hub! AMC made some great cars (the drag ready Rebel "The Machine", anyone?) but by 1971 the lack of sales were really starting to cut into their profits.

[K5WLF]

When it comes to automotive writers, I still miss "Uncle" Tom McCahill, who used to write for Mechanix Illustrated. Great writer and called it like he saw it.

[W2PFY]

How about Click and Clack in Car Talk

http://www.cartalk.com/

[KM1H]

It's a little newer than the DF.  SuperTurbine 400.  That's what came in the Electramobile, Riviera and Wildcat. The LeSabre got the ST300.

Id of guessed 63 and I never could keep track of Buick transmisssions after the DF, Seeemed they aded a turbine every year and then tossed on numbers and sdjectives.

This is one of my summer toys, 68 Impala SS 396