A little market research...

[W7TFO]

I was thinking of coming up with a product specifically engineered for hams with EX-BROADCAST boatanchor operations. 

I'm not trying for the D-104 & Viking crowd, not that there is anything wrong with that.

It would be a compact desktop audio mixer with two or three inputs, and the following features:

1..All transformer balanced I/O with +- 100dB gain overall.
2..Step attenuators.
3..Weston or Simpson VU meter.
4..Remote power supply to ensure low hum levels.
5..All octal tube compliment.
6..Ability to sit flat or upright on the desk.
7..telephone-type lever switches for controlling audio flow.
8..Built in muting and sequencing relay system to control TX and antenna switch.
9..Monitor level control between RX and speaker/phones.
10..Appearance of build to approximate that of the late post-war era, i.e. metal enclosure, engraved panel, professional connectors.

The topology would differ from the usual re-purposed broadcast console as they have too many inputs and too few outputs.

In this mixer, the controls would source between one or two microphone level inputs, and each could steer to drive 2 or 3 separate transmitters at 600Z +dBM line level.

Overall I see this being approximately 12"W x 6"D x 10"H, with the PSU about 6" cubic.

It wouldn't be cheap, but you would definitely get what you paid for....

Feedback appreciated.

73DG

[aa5wg]

DG:

I don't have a background in audio but enjoy listening to clean and smooth audio. If your product can help in this regard I would encourge you to persue it.

73,
Chuck

[W7TFO]

Thanks for the positive note.

I would try a fill a niche in hamdom with this, as the functions it would provide are the most difficult for some of us to provide in the situation of BC gear in the shack.

73DG

[Steve - K4HX]

I couldn't say what the market would be but your are spot on with your comment, "The topology would differ from the usual re-purposed broadcast console as they have too many inputs and too few outputs."

This is one of the reasons why I never messed with an old broadcast board. There are some out there with an appropriate number of inputs/outputs, but most have too many and/or take up too much desk space. I now use a rack mount mixer (1RU) with three mic inputs and two line level inputs and two line outputs.

[Opcom]

Sure, an all tube unit would be great. Its what many people want but few will find (with 3 channels) or build. I want to build one eventually but with time what it's worth to me, buying one might save money. Three inputs so the third one could be a test oscillator or signal.

Would you use real Daven-style attenuators, or just pot-type indexed pads?

Could the output have some 6-10 watts, like from a pair of triode 6L6's? Or is that a job for a separate speech driver?

The reason the old GE console is in storage is because I don't need all the inputs and it is huge some 40". It is Germanium, all push pull in and out, has a very nice sound to it.

[W7TFO]

Sure, an all tube unit would be great. Its what many people want but few will find (with 3 channels) or build. I want to build one eventually but with time what it's worth to me, buying one might save money. Three inputs so the third one could be a test oscillator or signal.

Don't think of a conventional mixer, as this one would have separate amplified channels for the express purpose of driving a mono transmitter or two.

Two inputs switched ahead would give several input choices, for different mics and such.

Would you use real Daven-style attenuators, or just pot-type indexed pads?

All step attenuators such a those by Daven.

Could the output have some 6-10 watts, like from a pair of triode 6L6's? Or is that a job for a separate speech driver?

It would not have a speaker amplifier in it.  All monitor levels would be from a selected receiver, then run thru muting relays, and an "L" pad on to your speaker.

The internal amplifiers would be line-level only.

73DG

[W2PFY]

Would you be using SLR connectors as a standard for input & output?


Will it have a tone generator for setting up your rig so we can put annoying tones on the band?

Perhaps the tone generator could be designed so it will only work into a dummy load

[AB2EZ]

Question: "How do you make a small fortune in the ham radio market?"

Answer: "Start out with a large fortune"

Critical success factors:

a. The equipment must be priced no higher than what the parts would have cost at hamfests in the late 1970's

b. You must provide a lifetime warranty and unlimited customer support

c. You must accept the liabilities that go along with selling equipment with high voltages inside to purchasers who clearly identify themselves as "amateur" radio hobbyists. [The jury will not be impressed by the argument that these same purchasers gained experience using similar equipment in 1932, and should know what the dangers are].

Stu

[ve8xj]

Sounds like a neat project. Right now i use a Yamaha mixer . Great little mixer but as others have said it lacks outputs,and that classic character that we all crave.

Having at least one Line input and output would be Very useful as  a lot of us play recordings of other AM signals.

And if one was adding transmitter relay control to a console if there were to be a number of contacts that both close and open upon transmit that would be handy for all those accessories such as VFO's ,receiver mute, audio disconnect, etc. The contacts could be accessible through  a terminal strip on the back.

The bigger the meter the better.

[W7TFO]

Terry:  Methinks you mean XLR connectors for the mic inputs.  Bingo.
You need tone?  Make your own and run in into the line level aux input.

Stu:  Funny you would mention this, on a forum where hams regularly have a DX-60 opened up on the bench, running into a load, poking about with a VOM.

To begin with, I will not be selling these on the open market.  Each one would be response to a private request for said item, custom built on a personal basis.

It is not about a 'financial success', rather filling a need for those smart enough to see the value in what it would do.  Each one would come only after a boiler plate hold-harmless contract is entered.

Pat:  Since most BA hams already have a good receiver, this device would just be a control pathway thru to a speaker without gain.  It would perform the muting function usually missing.

VE8:  The muting/on-air/sequencing relays (real relays BTW) would be represented via connections on the PSU.  The time elements between successive actuations would be adjustable via RC circuits only, no SS timers or open collector crap.

Onward!

73DG

[N2XD]

Sounds like something that would turn out to be very benefical to BC transmitter users amoung us.

[KC2ZFA]

Dennis, what price range do you envision ?

Also, most importantly, will it fit into a USPS priority mail box ? 

[Bill, KD0HG]

My experience with my past garage ham business, rebuilding audio modules for the R-390A...You will likely make a better return by working at a McDonald's drive through..You will get unwarranted complaints and stiffed by the occasional buyer, even one will wipe out any small profit that you might make. There's Extra Class hams that can't even wire their own microphones up, then you have to explain how to hook the thing up to them- forever. Any problems with their station will become your equipment's fault.

People will hook your console up to a DX-60 or Knight T-150 and complain about the audio quality of their rig after all the money that they spent.

But if it's something that you love doing, it still might be worth it.

Bill

[KE6DF]

To make a business like that fly, you need to have a cost-of-goods-sold of around 40% (or less) than the average selling price.

COGS includes all the parts and direct assembly labor.

So, if the product costs $500 to produce you need to be able to sell it for $1250.

Plus, to make a decent income,  you need to sell at least 10 per month -- and even then you are probably making less than most engineers make with regular jobs.

So if your product only appeals to owners of converted broadcast TX's, how many of those are out there?

You probably need to find a product that appeals to a wider market (e.g., SSB users) too.

I suspect it's really hard to make money selling stuff to hams.

During your working life, most hams have money but not enough time to really persue radio.

When they retire, they have time, but not much money.

Maybe switch to making tube audio amps you can sell to rich guys for $50,000 -- complete with oxygen free cables at $10 per foot. :-)

[K5WLF]

Dennis,

From a logical standpoint, I sort of agree with the guys who don't seem to think it'll be a big moneymaker. But, if you're just looking to have some fun and make a few extra bucks in addition to the day job, I think it's a great idea. Sure, ex-BC rigs are a niche market but so, really, is ham radio. And there are a lot of folks making money selling to us.

I can see one of these units ahead of, not only ex-BC rigs, but also some of the Class E rigs and maybe for some of the ESSB guys. Who knows.

About 20 years ago, I made some excellent after-hours money building custom panels and electrical systems for ultralight aircraft. Another niche market, true. But the guys wanted more features or utility in their planes and were willing to spend the money. It wasn't my day job, but it was fun to do and the return was excellent. Being on a custom basis, there was no stock to maintain so initial cost was essentially nil.

You'll never know until you try. Maybe build a prototype and take some pics and spread the word.

Good luck with the project,
Larry

[Opcom]

Among the first few units made, being used by a few tall ships would help, especially if it were like the old catalog ads: "Kxn uses the contraption and won DX awards", or something like that. Might as well have some of the advertising fit the era of the technology, very harmonious.