Broadcast Transmitter prices?

[WD4LUR]

What kind of prices are broadcast transmitters actually going for these days? I would love to get my hands an a 1940s-1950s vintage 1KW transmitter.
I think the Collins 20V-2 is one of the best looking transmitters made. Also really like the Gates with the 833s all lines up behind that window!

Thanks,
Dan

[Detroit47]

I would love to have a Broadcash transmitter too, but they see to have gottemn a bit pricey. I don't seem to be lucky enough to run into a free one.

John N8QPC

[W7TFO]

1kW's like the Gates, RCA, and Collins are averaging between $500 and $1,000.

The Collins 20V- series commands a bit more, mainly for the style and not the performance over the others.

The later Collins 820D- series are popping up from time to time, but are not the easiest to convert nor operate over the earlier jobs.

The Gates with their 833's are prolly the best deal for the money, as they run a long time, sound good, and tubes are easily available

'Free' ones always involve a lot of physical effort getting them from one place to another, so are never 'free'.  

Not to mention they are not 'plug N play', nor do most hams have the proper interface setup to run one correctly.

All of it winds up costing more than you thought.  It is well worth it, tho.

Just a bit of experience from a guy that has moved a lot of them over the years.

73DG

[WA3VJB]

Dan, they are around, often free for the taking.

Like this one:

http://amfone.net/bta1m.html

If you're willing to do the legwork, start by making a list of all the older AM stations within driving distance of your place. You want to find one that goes back to the vintage of the sort of transmitter you're looking for.  Start with the old local stations that have been authorized to run 1000 watts over the years, even if they today run far higher than that.  Include those with nightttime authorizations at lower power.

Next up, Google their call letters and get phone numbers for their business office.  Make calls, find the name and phone number of their engineer.  The person will probably NOT be on staff, but rather, someone on contract who works a number of stations in the area. Sometimes a station is reluctant to disclose, so you may have to leave your number or an email for the person to get back to you.

It's important NOT to initially disclose to the business office the purpose of your call.  You need to delicately research whether a given station has such a transmitter in the first place.  The front office will immediately shut you down and say they don't, even if they do. But the guy who keeps the place running can become your friend.

Once you have a few leads, it's time to figure out whether station management needs to be involved at all.  Smaller, family run stations take a different approach than corporate-owned stations that are part of a chain.  The strategy is to elevate your inquiry just high enough not to trigger interest among accountants and attorneys, while still finding someone who can grant permission to let you have the transmitter.   (liability, depreciated assets, etc. etc. make it easier to say no than yes)

I located and helped retrieve an RCA BTA-1 from a station in Uniontown, Penna. about ten years ago.  Family owned station, the engineer had been there for years, everything about the "deal" was known all the way up to the owner. Rig tuned right up on its original frequency, and spare 833A accompanied.

By comparison, I helped retrieve a Gates BC1-G from a corporate-owned station in Washington DC, about a dozen years ago.  The chief engineer was more management than technician, and it was on his authority alone that we pulled the thing up from a subterranean vault that was once a Bell System switch.  Not only had the station relocated its transmitter site, he made it clear that this transmitter was long off the books, as was anything else we happened to find in this vault, and that we were welcome to take any and all of it.  The property later became a high-rise office building, and the vault was filled in and paved over.

Here's an article I wrote on the topic.
http://rwonline.com/article/chrome-and-glass-shine-again/17197

Good luck, and don't wait too long.  In the 20+ years I've been rescuing retired BC transmitters, many of them have not gotten saved as stations change hands and the physical plant relocates and downsizes.  But I've been involved with a couple dozen projects when we got there in time to send these beasts to good homes (among us), and it's a very satisfying experience.

Write again if you need moving advice.  Hint: Think about the Egyptians and the Pyramids.  OH, and a lift-gate rental truck.

[k4kyv]

Another thing to look for is smaller (250w-1kw) stations that have recently gone dark.  There are a lot of them these days.  A month or so ago there was a photo in Radio World magazine showing what looked a Gates BC-1 something that had been rusting away out in a field for years. Sometimes when defunct stations are sold, the new property owners just bulldoze the transmitter building, contents and all.

If you hear of one that is about to be bulldozed, maybe a little reverse psychology from the usual might help convince the owners to let you have the transmitter.  Tell them that they might be held liable for the mercury, lead and PCB residue, but that you would be willing to take the problem off their hands for salvage rights. 

But be careful and use your best judgement about bringing up that subject.  I know of one somewhere out west where the station owner wouldn't let anyone have the transmitter because he was afraid the station might be held liable for what the recipient of the transmitter did with the PCB in the capacitors.  The ham even offered to remove all the oil caps and leave them behind for proper hazmat disposal, but the owner seemed to think everything inside the cabinet was somehow tainted, and he wouldn't even let him have the tubes. He must have paid a fortune to have an entire 1000+ lbs. transmitter hauled away by a licensed hazmat disposal team to be deposited in a certified toxic waste dump.

[K5UJ]

It looks to me like it is getting harder to find a bc rig now compared to a few years ago.   It helps to have some connections, but another thing to do is watch the broadcaster email reflectors--sometimes there will be a "rig available" email sent out on one of them. 

The days of being able to get one for no more than the work of hauling it away seem to be ending or over.   Not sure what changed with that.   Maybe it has to do with stations strapped for cash more now. 

I had a line on a BC500J back in early fall, an 833  modulated by a pair.   It would have been fantastic on 75 and 160 and the cabinet dimensions seemed to make having it in the basement with me somewhat feasible.  The station was in S.C. and the engineer there wanted around $500 for it.   Like an idiot I dragged my feet trying to decide whether I wanted it or not and someone else got it first. 

If you do find one, grab it don't wait.   Have a truck, dolly, moving mats, tools and at least one other guy to help and be ready to go before they change their minds hi hi.    Bring a camera and take a lot of photos of the rig all the innards before you pull anything out prior to moving the cabinet.  Everybody loves CASH MONEY.   Don't be showing up with a check book.   Have Benjamins.   Nothing says I'm serious like a wad of 100s.   The seller may even give a discount when he realizes he's getting cold hard cash.   

[N0WEK]

I paid $730 for my BC-1J a year or so ago. The guy who I bought it from bought two storage units full of transmitters and such, that one of the local stations had defaulted on. Nobody else bid on them and he bought the contents of both units for $200 figuring to scrap them out. He eventually sold all 3 or 4 transmitters to people who were going to use them. The other transmitters were 5 and 10 KW units. The BC-1J was in great shape, just a little dusty. I had to pick it up in Denver, 1,000 miles each way, but that was defrayed by my company having me working for two weeks in Grand Island, NE and paying mileage and motels. I drove the other 500 miles to Denver, disassembled the transmitter, loaded the whole thing into my 15 year old Mazda PU over the weekend and drove back to NE for the second week of work and then back home.

Getting the whole thing into my basement and on wheels was another whole adventure. I've yet to get it converted but that's waiting on getting the house remodeling done, and the shack is about the last to get done. I'm hoping to have it on the air by this time next year.

[DMOD]

Recommend you join:

http://www.broadcastengineering.info/index.php

Go to the HAM thread and state that not only are you a HAM, your setup, etc, but let them know you are interested in a BC transmitter.

You don't have to be an engineer to join the site.

Phil - AC0OB

[KB5MD]

A little tidbit or suggestion when moving a BC transmitter.  Take along a roll of masking tape and a felt tip marker so that whenever you disconnect the iron you will have a way of labeling all the leads and terminals.  This doesn't seem like much but try putting everything back in place without them being marked.

[KA3EKH]

I have been on both sides of this being that I have worked in broadcasting for around thirty years now and back before they allowed “no code” tech + hams like me to become general I had no interest or use for anything on HF or AM. At several stations there were things like Gates BC-1 and RCA BTA-1 transmitters and I had offered them to local hams and always it was “oh, I want it and will take it” but when they showed up it was its too big or too heavy or its to cold today or I cant get my brothers truck and I would have space that I need to clear for a new transmitter or some other project and have to deal with unreliable armatures.  I ended up cutting up and scraping at least two or three because I got tired of dealing with the locals. I did finally discover a couple AM sites back in the nineties and would list that I had parts for free and do remember getting a group of die hard AM operators that drove down here in a snow storm from somewhere up north just to get a 5 kW modulation transformer and other parts from a BC-5 that I junked. Because of the internet I was able to find good homes for a couple BC-1 and a RCA and oddly enough because of seeing what others were doing with this stuff on a trip to remove a old RCA BTA1-M along with transporting some newer AM transmitters to a sister station I decided to do the RCA BTA-1M that I have on 160 today, will say that its also fun now going around to other sites and scrounging anything that is old like Volumemax sets and modulation monitors. The problem today will be that when many stations were consolidated back in the nineties the big companies had money they all replaced most of the old AM transmitters back then. The stuff Hams want today like 20V, RCA and Gates were only kept around for backups back then and when you get a new transmitter the first thing you do when installing it is get rid of the oldest and keep the one that was online as the backup so most of that stuff went back then. The stuff like the Harris MW-1 and MW-5  that are backup transmitters today are way harder to convert for Ham service and do not appear to be in demand, if you want a MW-1 think I can set you up with that. The last MW-5 I got rid of I squashed with a backhoe. Also know of a Collins 5 kW three hundred series in NJ that’s just sitting outside under a tarp looking for a new home but that old stuff is getting hard to find today.

[KM1H]

Id drive a fair distance for a mod transformer and reactor that would handle 1500-2500W of audio. The 7500W unit Im using now is a bit ridiculous.

Carl

[WD4LUR]

Thanks for all the info.

KA3EKH: I was looking up the Collins 300 series and all the models I found where 250 watt output. I would be interested in one of those, but 5kw is a little much  .

[K5UJ]

Thanks for all the info.

KA3EKH: I was looking up the Collins 300 series and all the models I found where 250 watt output. I would be interested in one of those, but 5kw is a little much  .

I think Ted KC3OL got a 300 to work with 4-400, or maybe 4-250...but anyway, he got one to put out a bit more suds with a tube change--I don't think it is hard to do.

rob

[kb3ouk]

i'm curious to know what it would take to convert an MW-1 to the ham bands. could you just change out a bunch of parts and modify everything, or rip out the original modulator and RF stages (PA and low level) and replace them with something built for the ham bands, but keep the original control circuitry and low level audio stuff?
shelby

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

There were a couple down here in Fo-Land that were free for the taking in the last year. They're still showing up, probably just less hype since fewer folks are recovering or posting about them.

I did speak with a guy at the event who located a nice 300G in the last year that was taken out of service over 40 years ago and stored. It's out west in a new location, but he may be moving it at some point. Condition is VG-Exc from his description, since it was stored in a dry, low humidity area.

Converting a 300 series to 4-400s is certainly doable as there is ample room inside. But since it's a pair of 810s modulated by a pair, there would be a fair amount of work and changeover required. Easier to go with a 20V-2 or similar, and leave the 300G as is. Several folks I've talked to including the fellow I got mine from have said they'll put out 300 watts without much effort. The 250w is probably down rated for 24/7 service or to meet some FCC requirement.

Well worth the effort in my book. A lot of radio for the price, which sometimes ends up being far less than the cost of moving it. Still need to get a 160 aerial up so I can get mine back on the air.

[KL7OF]

There is the 300-J series....looks like a 20v cabinet but with different plate iron and has 4-125s inside....Built as a 250 watt tx...I run mine at 325 watts carrier altho it is capable of more...built in 1953-54....Also used as the rf and audio driver for the 5 KW collins TX of that same era...See my QRZ page for a pic of this TX..taken 10-12 yrs ago on the day we got it home...I still have it in the lineup

There were a couple down here in Fo-Land that were free for the taking in the last year. They're still showing up, probably just less hype since fewer folks are recovering or posting about them.

I did speak with a guy at the event who located a nice 300G in the last year that was taken out of service over 40 years ago and stored. It's out west in a new location, but he may be moving it at some point. Condition is VG-Exc from his description, since it was stored in a dry, low humidity area.

Converting a 300 series to 4-400s is certainly doable as there is ample room inside. But since it's a pair of 810s modulated by a pair, there would be a fair amount of work and changeover required. Easier to go with a 20V-2 or similar, and leave the 300G as is. Several folks I've talked to including the fellow I got mine from have said they'll put out 300 watts without much effort. The 250w is probably down rated for 24/7 service or to meet some FCC requirement.

Well worth the effort in my book. A lot of radio for the price, which sometimes ends up being far less than the cost of moving it. Still need to get a 160 aerial up so I can get mine back on the air.

[Steve - K4HX]

Yep, driver for the 21E.

[K6IC]

Am not a BC engineer,  but think that it is a fairly difficult job converting the Modular SS transmitters to ham bands.

Some broad-brush info on the MWs,  from just Googleing about:
http://www.engineeringradio.us/blog/2012/01/the-harris-mw1a/
I know nothing of them,  Vic

[KA3EKH]

If anyone were so inspired to do a Harris MW-1 I know where one can be found. The MW-1 is a 1 kW solid state transmitter designed around a bunch of parallel modules that each contain a series modulator that drives a small PA, from what I recall they have about ten or twelve PA/Modulator cards in two rows in the top of the cabinet that are all combined together. All this is feed from a common DC supply and common exciter card. Nothing fancy like later PDM or PCM transmitters just lots of 1970s era TO-3 devices and lots of stupid little incandescent lamps in line with the output of each stage 220/240 volt signal phase and small blower so none of the problems with bigger transmitters so maybe it would just be building new driver and output tanks. The MW-1 also has a internal dummy load and last but not least if you have any experience with the MW-5 (5 kW) you will find that the MW-1 has nothing in common with it except maybe the exciter card, knobs and paint scheme. The one MW-1 that I know of is located in Delaware at WSUX, yes that’s right! Sucks radio. Think they did change the call a couple years back but I still have a "SUX' radio coffee cup.

[W7TFO]

I set a brand new MW-1 at KAWC in Yuma, AZ, back in 1978.  It is still there, and serves as backup.

(Yuma is the home of the regional ARRL fest in the next couple weeks)

I don't see why you couldn't retune the PT networks on the PA modules for 160, maybe 75.  The transistors used are not that finicky at that speed, and the output LC stuff is pretty much like that in a tube rig.

Those little lamps on each RF module did duty as indicators of activity, letting you have a visual notice of a problem.  Really not a bad idea.

In all the years I've babysat that transmitter, few modules have failed and those were pretty easy to resurrect.  The best advice is don't be too anal about those little bulbs lighting up a bit.  Brightly lit is another thing.

One thing that WAS a problem is the servo-driven Variac in the automatic power control circuit.  It had a habit of hunting about a single spot, wearing out that area and zorching. 

Most of the time it was due to beacon flasher load causing a bit of cycling line voltage drop.

Maybe not the best transmitter built by Gates, but one of the more durable.  It was efficient, sounded good if you didn't use the onboard clipper, but just big for what it did.  Lots of 'air' in the cabinet, no crowding

I heard it was designed that way to match the footprint of what it replaced, in the case of KAWC a BC-500T.

That MW-1 went to standby when I installed a new small rackmount 1kW job from Broadcast Electronics.

73DG

[KA3EKH]

Don’t think I ever saw all the bulbs lit equal. Yea, when a card dies they light up real good. Also fun when you worked in the area of the PA and anything you drop would be funneled down thru the scoop to the fan so it would be easy to find. They had the same diode clipper thing in the MW-5 and was always told never to use it, never knew why you would have diodes across the audio input except to create some level you cannot exceed? Everyone I have ever seen was bypassed.

[WA3VJB]

Another good rescue story here:

http://www.radioblvd.com/Gates%20BC-250L.htm

The layout of this transmitter, above, is similar to the Gates HF-1M, below, a model I have always wanted to find somewhere.

http://www.transmitter.be/gat-hf1m.html

[N0WEK]

Another good rescue story here:

http://www.radioblvd.com/Gates%20BC-250L.htm

The layout of this transmitter, above, is similar to the Gates HF-1M, below, a model I have always wanted to find somewhere.

http://www.transmitter.be/gat-hf1m.html

Both of those share the cabinet and meters of my BC1-J; it looks like the 250 is pretty much the same transmitter with a lighter power supply and 810s instead of the 833s.

The short wave version has quite a few extra knobs in the RF section.

I love the look of those things.

[WA3VJB]

Yeah, the "look" of a chrome and glass BC transmitter is very alluring.  The waist-level meters are really cool, like it's a laboratory apparatus of some kind, with an array that measures Something Very Important.

I got my first one 20 years ago, a General Electric BT-20A. Made a road trip from Maryland all the way to Syracuse and paid a dollar a watt. Pair of 828s modulating a pair of 810s, 250 Watts. Steve K4HX, who accompanied me on that trip, eventually got that one up and running on 160M and it's been through a few homes since then.

Soon after, I got a call from WYRE, a little station in Annapolis, with a much prettier alternative.  When we were disconnecting the conduit AC power, we had to go find the panel and throw the circuit breaker.  On the load center were various bits of masking tape marking which breaker = which item.

The transmitter I was about to take away, a 1946 Collins 300-G, was marked "old transmitter," appropriately enough. Looks like the one in the photo Todd posted in this thread.

Years later,  I again got a call from WYRE, to come get a Gates BC1-H.  You guessed it, the breaker marked "new transmitter" was now switched to off, and it went to a new home in Culpeper, VA, W3TIM.  The station had replaced it with a little rack mounted solid state job that plugged into a conventional 120VAC duplex outlet in the room.

Couple of inspirational vids to watch over your morning coffee:

RCA BTA-250L on 160 (demonstration):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZ9dDTm7CBw

Gates BC1-G fits in minivan (rescue):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOfAGCq0SY0