RCA Blower, who is Allen Bradley anyway?

[KA3EKH]

Who the hell is Allen Bradley? Today is one of those rare occasions where I decided to crank up the old RCA BTA-1 and get on 160 and when I hit the main breaker there was a snap and a burnt smell. Let me first start by saying that the last couple times I started the transmitter I had to push start the blower and one time it never came up to speed so think something is wrong with the GE motor. There is an Allen Bradley two pole circuit breaker switch thing in the 220 volt feed for the blower motor and that has failed. The thing about this is its nothing like I have seen with any modern circuit breaker. First off the entire thing can be disassembled so I did take it apart removed and cleaned the contacts that are in very good condition for being fifty years or so old but the problem is that there is a small coil that is part of the assembly that fits over a brass cylinder and I think this is the current sensing coil that trips the breaker that has burnt itself open. The coil is about an inch long and maybe a half inch wide and connected to the breaker by two screws on the back of the unit so it was designed to be easily replaced but where would I find such a coil? Maybe I can wind a new coil to replace it so I am open to suggestions on that. The breaker never tripped except for the last time it failed and it internal contacts look real good but feel I may have a problem in the GE blower. Did check and there are no shorts to ground on the motor and the motor has an internal resistance of around twenty ohms. I did take a couple cheap clip leads and connect the two feeds to the breaker to the motor circuit and when I hit the main breaker for the transmitter one of the clip leads burnt itself apart so think I will be pulling the blower and looking at that on the bench so if anyone has any thoughts on that would be glad to hear them. Won’t know until I look at it if that motor has anything like a start and run set of windings or anything complicated like that.

RF

[W7TFO]

Allen-Bradley is a high-end electronic & electrical manufacturer today, with a very long history.  They got started early in the last century (jeez, has it been that long?).

They made radio parts for a long time, namely some of the best pots (type J) ever.  That line still exists, I'm not sure if A-B is making them today.

They made a lot of contactors and breakers over the years, some of the best.  I may have some of those contactors at home, I'll check when I get back to town.

They exist today as part of the Rockwell group:  http://ab.rockwellautomation.com/

73DG

[WBear2GCR]

Pic posted of the breaker?

Internal of the coil?

In the contactor that I found and used in my table saw, the coil is a thermal element, when heated it causes the contactor to open - over current condition.

I only wanted a big switch, and it was rated too low, so I defeated the coil...iirc.

                    _-_-bear

[KA3EKH]

Yea, I know that Allen Bradley is a big deal company and I should have known better was just torked off because that one or two times a year I decide to try to operate the AB company got in the way.  Update! I built a little coil, about ten turns of #20 and used that to replace the burnt out coil, I know that probably has no relationship to the proper coil but it solves the problem. The stupid GE motor still needs a push to start draws 0.7 amps when running and is cool to the touch and if it gives it a turn and starts it draws about 2 amps starting current. Don’t know why it won’t start on its own? Turns freely when off and figure at 0.7 A @ 240 VAC that’s around that’s about 170 watts and don’t know if that’s correct for that motor. There’s a data plate on the motor and will have to look at that but that involves removing the motor from the transmitter. Would assume that it’s thermally protected and just going to run it till it dies; maybe it has bad windings or something?

RF

[W7TFO]

It may have a stiff bearing, the starting winding may be open, or if it has a starting cap, that may be open.

If you can spin it backwards and it takes off, the problem is in the starting winding.

Try looking at Grainger for a new motor, they have a lot of replacements.

73DG

 

[The Slab Bacon]

Oil the bearings good and check the cap.

[KA0HCP]

Allen Bradley was the older brother of Milton Bradley  who went into manufacture of childrens games.  Occasionally they helped out by doing work for one another. 

[W3GMS]

Who the hell is Allen Bradley? Today is one of those rare occasions where I decided to crank up the old RCA BTA-1 and get on 160 and when I hit the main breaker there was a snap and a burnt smell. Let me first start by saying that the last couple times I started the transmitter I had to push start the blower and one time it never came up to speed so think something is wrong with the GE motor. There is an Allen Bradley two pole circuit breaker switch thing in the 220 volt feed for the blower motor and that has failed. The thing about this is its nothing like I have seen with any modern circuit breaker. First off the entire thing can be disassembled so I did take it apart removed and cleaned the contacts that are in very good condition for being fifty years or so old but the problem is that there is a small coil that is part of the assembly that fits over a brass cylinder and I think this is the current sensing coil that trips the breaker that has burnt itself open. The coil is about an inch long and maybe a half inch wide and connected to the breaker by two screws on the back of the unit so it was designed to be easily replaced but where would I find such a coil? Maybe I can wind a new coil to replace it so I am open to suggestions on that. The breaker never tripped except for the last time it failed and it internal contacts look real good but feel I may have a problem in the GE blower. Did check and there are no shorts to ground on the motor and the motor has an internal resistance of around twenty ohms. I did take a couple cheap clip leads and connect the two feeds to the breaker to the motor circuit and when I hit the main breaker for the transmitter one of the clip leads burnt itself apart so think I will be pulling the blower and looking at that on the bench so if anyone has any thoughts on that would be glad to hear them. Won’t know until I look at it if that motor has anything like a start and run set of windings or anything complicated like that.

RF

There are basically two types of circuit breakers.  You have the better type which is called a magnetic breaker.  The other type of breakers is a much cheaper style that is called a thermal breaker. 
I doubt you would be able to find a new coil sensing assembly other than to find another breaker like you have.  Airpax made some good magnetic breakers and they use to have some good tutorials on detailed operation of such breakers. 

Joe, W3GMS     

[W7TFO]

Allen Bradley was the older brother of Milton Bradley  who went into manufacture of childrens games.  Occasionally they helped out by doing work for one another. 

Too funny...now get back to your chores!

73DG

[KB2WIG]

and I thought that he had his own TV program.


klc

[Carl WA1KPD]

Allen Bradley was the older brother of Milton Bradley  who went into manufacture of childrens games.  Occasionally they helped out by doing work for one another. 

In 1917, Harry Bradley (founder of Allen Bradley Corporation), sought a way to reduce the floor space required for a bank of sinks, and help workers wash their hands quicker so as not to waste all their break time standing in lines.

By 1918, "washfountain" prototypes were created which allowed multiple users to wash up quickly. The idea was so successful, Harry Bradley patented the concept in 1919.

When word spread of the revolutionary product, Bradley decided to sell the patent in order to concentrate on his own business. In 1920, The Bradley Washfountain Company opened for business with Gustav Grossenbach, Louis Schlesinger, and Howard A. Mullett as founding partners."
http://www.bradleycorp.com/

[Opcom]

Allen Bradley was the older brother of Milton Bradley  who went into manufacture of childrens games.  Occasionally they helped out by doing work for one another. 

Later in life Allen Bradley had a TV show that was a subset of the Dick Van Dyke show.

Steeped in history they are!

[Carl WA1KPD]

We, at Allen Bradley Interiors, Inc., are dedicated to providing custom architectural woodwork and cabinetry for your home or business through the unification of vision and technology.

In 1996 Brian Allen with his desire for a better life for himself and his family formed Allen Bradley Interiors. Our first production facility was a 24′ x 32′ garage owned by Brian Allen’s father-in-law, who let the company use the building for three years rent-free. Our fourth year of operation allowed us to re-locate to a larger production facility. The company’s reputation was built on a commitment to produce high quality products and ship on a timely basis.

http://www.abi-i.com/

Professor Allan Bradley

Allan is former Director of the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute, where he holds the title of Director Emeritus. He leads the Mouse Genomics Team, which uses the mouse as a model system to investigate the function of individual gene.
http://www.sanger.ac.uk/research/faculty/abradley/


Busy guy

[K7EDL]

BRADLEY, ALLEN J
KD4IUN   Operator Class General   

[The Slab Bacon]

Allen Bradley was the older brother of Milton Bradley  who went into manufacture of childrens games.  Occasionally they helped out by doing work for one another. 

But they were the offspring siblings of David Bradley who made tractors and farm implements   

[W2XR]

Today, A-B is one of the largest manufacturers of PLCs (Programmable Logic Controllers) for factory automation, process/industrial control, HVAC, and other applications. I believe they are still based in Milwaukee.

73,

Bruce

[flintstone mop]

Yea, I know that Allen Bradley is a big deal company and I should have known better was just torked off because that one or two times a year I decide to try to operate the AB company got in the way.  Update! I built a little coil, about ten turns of #20 and used that to replace the burnt out coil, I know that probably has no relationship to the proper coil but it solves the problem. The stupid GE motor still needs a push to start draws 0.7 amps when running and is cool to the touch and if it gives it a turn and starts it draws about 2 amps starting current. Don’t know why it won’t start on its own? Turns freely when off and figure at 0.7 A @ 240 VAC that’s around that’s about 170 watts and don’t know if that’s correct for that motor. There’s a data plate on the motor and will have to look at that but that involves removing the motor from the transmitter. Would assume that it’s thermally protected and just going to run it till it dies; maybe it has bad windings or something?

RF

Wellllllll, let's remember that the TX has a little age on her and needs a little more use than twice a year. And BC transmitters don't like Ham radio PTT use.
What I'm saying, is that other things will happen besides the present problem.

I'm sure, as I'm typing this that my R390A will have a need for some maintenance. It's been on a long run of 24/7, and finally settled down.

Fred

[AB3L]

Allen Bradley was the older brother of Milton Bradley  who went into manufacture of childrens games.  Occasionally they helped out by doing work for one another. 

In 1917, Harry Bradley (founder of Allen Bradley Corporation), sought a way to reduce the floor space required for a bank of sinks, and help workers wash their hands quicker so as not to waste all their break time standing in lines.

By 1918, "washfountain" prototypes were created which allowed multiple users to wash up quickly. The idea was so successful, Harry Bradley patented the concept in 1919.

When word spread of the revolutionary product, Bradley decided to sell the patent in order to concentrate on his own business. In 1920, The Bradley Washfountain Company opened for business with Gustav Grossenbach, Louis Schlesinger, and Howard A. Mullett as founding partners."
http://www.bradleycorp.com/

Mr. Mullett further marketed the washfountain into the washbasin which became a hit with hair stylists across the nation. Many a head has been shampoo'd in his basin's. He was credited with creating a hairstyle for himself that finally caught on about a decade or so ago. The Mullet

[Opcom]

The well-known Rockwell Retroencabulator uses Allen Bradley controls.

[The Slab Bacon]

The well-known Rockwell Retroencabulator uses Allen Bradley controls.

Is that the Retro Encabulator or the Turbo Encabulator ? ? ?     

[K5WLF]

The well-known Rockwell Retroencabulator uses Allen Bradley controls.

Is that the Retro Encabulator or the Turbo Encabulator ? ? ?     

I think they both do 

[The Slab Bacon]

The well-known Rockwell Retroencabulator uses Allen Bradley controls.

Is that the Retro Encabulator or the Turbo Encabulator ? ? ?     

I think they both do 

Hmmmmmmm.................. Even Allen Bradley had one! ! ! ! !

Here are plenty to chose from   

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=turbo+encabulator+original&oq=turbo+en&aq=2&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_sm=c&gs_upl=6813l12313l0l15266l8l8l0l0l0l0l218l968l3.4.1l8l0

[KA3EKH]

An Update!!! After waiting for over a month for the blower motor to get better or heal on its own, or for the magic elves to come at night and repair the motor for me  and finally getting tired of having to manually reach in and start the blower motor I decided to remove it myself and disassemble it. First let me start off by saying that the little GE 1/8 H AC motor is a marvel of engineering, remove the four bolts and after reading the instructions printed on the cover you pull the internal clip both shells of the motor slide off and everything comes apart. This motor has no starting capacitor but has an internal switch that disconnects the start winding after the motor spins up. The Bakelite card that holds the switch is held in place by two screws and a thing that looks like a push pin. After removing the card I discovered that the one wire for the start winding had rubbed up against the support for the switch and over time worn thru and burnt itself apart. Looks like an easy fix.  This GE motor has to be at least twenty to thirty years old, or if it’s the one that came in the transmitter it's fifty.  It's amazing to work on something that can be disassembled and was designed to be repaired. I looked at replacement motors on line and see where you can buy a replacement motor that would be the same thing for under $200 but know for cretin threes no way you would be able to disassemble or repair anything that you buy today. The worst thing is if I were doing this at work looking at the cost of labor and the time spent and long term reliability would not have thought about it and would just throw out the old GE motor and installed a new one, fortunately we do not have cost accounting or have to be fiscally responsible in Ham radio.

[W4NEQ]

Sounds like you're on the road to a fix.  You might want to put a slow-blow fuse in series with it if the breaker isn't known to be functional.

[w1vtp]

No mention of Allen Bradley carbon comp resistors?  I cut my eye teeth on those when I was a JN

Al