New Owner Asks Me To Remove Antenna

[flintstone mop]

Welp,
My faithful, dipole antenna for 160-40M has to be reconfigured. Someone, a developer of sorts, has purchased a lot of vacant lots around my house. And he is building very nice duplex units to rent out. He asked me to remove the wire hanging in the trees coz his crew will cut all trees down after hunting season.

Sooo, it's crunch time. I am considering this corner fed antenna, by Darrell Edwards, KF4DX.

[W3GMS]

Fred,

How much horizontal wire can you string up on your property?   Using an inverted Vee will same you some space.  Also don't be afraid to bend the antenna in from 180 degree's if you have to.  By controlling your losses, open wire fed antenna less than a half wavelength do work out.  Several guys including Frank AHZ has done that with some success.   

I used a 1/4 wave inverted L many years ago up on 160.  It worked well for DX but was very noisy on receive.  I have never tried the configuration you showed in your posting. 

Joe, W3GMS     

[flintstone mop]

Hi Joe,
I'm good in one direction for the horizontal, about 50 feet high and the full 120 feet. The configuration has always been sort of like a VEE. There is nothing acceptable to replace the one side that has to come down. I would have to come up with something almost 50 feet high on another vacant lot, that puts that leg into a field that is Brush hogged in the Summer.
I'm going to try this config out as I already have the 65 foot pole for the vertical portion.
Looks very simple and hopefully the K1JJ tuner can make something of it. I have taken field strength readings and I have an idea how much RF is in the air.
I hope I do not have to RE-investigate a balanced tuner.
Fred

[WA1GFZ]

Frank's (AHE) antenna is only 60 feet long and he gets out well on 75. So if you make one twice as long you should be ok on 160. The impedance will be lower at the tuner. You will need good feedline to control losses.

[Steve - K4HX]

I agree with Frank. You cannot go wrong with using a version of the Slab Antenna. If you can get the wire up high and flat, you will do about as well as a full-sized antenna.

[The Slab Bacon]

Ya know, It's kinda funny. Many have asked about it, I have posted the PDF of it gazillions of times, and noone has yet to build one.

I agree with Frank. You cannot go wrong with using a version of the Slab Antenna. If you can get the wire up high and flat, you will do about as well as a full-sized antenna.

Frank's (AHE) antenna is only 60 feet long and he gets out well on 75. So if you make one twice as long you should be ok on 160. The impedance will be lower at the tuner. You will need good feedline to control losses.

[k4kyv]

That's why it would be wise to purchase unused land that surrounds your property, if the price just happens to be right. Sometimes people buy property as a speculation, but end up getting tired of paying taxes and maintaining the property, so they let it go for less than they paid for it. In to-day's economy real estate is a very poor investment, especially short-term within the attention span of a lot of wannabe real estate speculators.

I feel very fortunate to be sitting on 100 fully-paid-for acres, in a low-tax region of the country, with no hassles from anyone telling me what kind of antennas and towers I can or cannot put up or what I can do on my own property. "Stealth" antennas suck.

My 80m open-wire fed dipole works great on 160.  In Nashville, 50 miles via crow-flight from here, the 80m dipole puts in about 30 dB more signal than does the quarter-wave vertical.  But out beyond a couple hundred miles from here (where most of the 160m AM activity lies), the vertical begins to take over as the superior antenna. The only drawback with the short dipole is extremely sharp tuning, ± 5 kc/s bandwidth at best, but that problem is solved now with my remote-controlled antenna tuning system at the base of the tower.

Something else that sucks is "developers" who clear all the trees off the land before they build.  The property would be more attractive and worth more with a few mature trees growing on the lot.  Round here, they bulldoze down all  the trees, build  little ticky-tacky houses dominated by a huge attached 2 or 3-car garage out front that all but hides the actual living quarters, then plant little saplings on the lawn that will take decades to grow to a decent size, and by then the cheesy house on the lot will likely be dilapidated if not razed. Ugly fugly.

[Steve - K4HX]

Not true. Karl, KD3CN has built one. But that's all I know of.

Why would someone want to use a proven winner antenna when they can mess around with JS designs. Where's the fun in that?

You can lead a horse to water ....

Ya know, It's kinda funny. Many have asked about it, I have posted the PDF of it gazillions of times, and noone has yet to build one.

I agree with Frank. You cannot go wrong with using a version of the Slab Antenna. If you can get the wire up high and flat, you will do about as well as a full-sized antenna.

Frank's (AHE) antenna is only 60 feet long and he gets out well on 75. So if you make one twice as long you should be ok on 160. The impedance will be lower at the tuner. You will need good feedline to control losses.

[WD8BIL]

Hi Steve, Merry Christmas.

Hey Frank, with the change in jobs here I get home quite a bit later than before.
Is the WFDN up and running again on 3733??

[k4kyv]

Why would someone want to use a proven winner antenna when they can mess around with JS designs. Where's the fun in that?

And don't forget, you have to wait until it's windy, below freezing with mixed rain and sleet to put it up.  Otherwise it won't work right.

[Steve - K4HX]

Just get on and call. There is no net. There's more action around 3705 these days. I heard a bunch of guys on there this morning.

Hope the new job is going well and Merry Christmas.

Hi Steve, Merry Christmas.

Hey Frank, with the change in jobs here I get home quite a bit later than before.
Is the WFDN up and running again on 3733??

[flintstone mop]

I saved the info and PDF of Frank's antenna in the 'puter. I don't like re-inventing the wheel and using HUGE baluns, if I can avoid the extra work.
And yes Don it is not cold enough to start messing with antennas.
The owner came around 3 yrs ago and offered it to us. And we felt that less than an acre for $20K was too much money.
The going price for now is 2 acres for $15K.
Yes, I regret not making the sacrifice......
A copy of Frank's antenna or the one I posted here is worth a try.
It must be one of Cebik's thoughts. No one here can really say that the antenna I posted will definitely not work!!

Fred

[Steve - K4HX]

No one here can really say that the antenna I posted will definitely not work!!

This is true. But we can say for sure the Slab Antenna will work.    If you were buying a car, would you buy one that has been proven to be good over many years, or one that no one has said anything bad about but little else is known?

If you already have a JJ Tuner, you're set. Feed it with the OWL or ladder line (larger conductor size is better).

[flintstone mop]

OK Steve
Beings that I already have OWL out there making the large spreaders for the antenna element, would eliminate the need for a Balun.
I might try to get it longer than 60 feet though.

Fred

[Steve - K4HX]

Sure, the longer the better. As GFZ said, 120 feet long should work FB on 160 meter. Heck, Slab got his 60 footer to work on 160 meters!

[W4AAB]

I had a similar situation when I bought this place 21 1/2 years ago. There was 7 1/2 acres on the north end that I could have bought for $7,000. This being my first home purchase, I didn't buy the extra acreage. I have regretted it because several different owners(after a new house was built) have tried to encroach on me. All of them found out that I own high-power semi-automatic weapons :-). Next spring, I plan on building a LARGE fence on that border.Hoping one day to put up a BIG tower and run wires off it. In Alabama where I used to live(and still work :-( ), they cut down the trees and name streets after them :-(. Glad I have 5 acres. I am building a Slab Bacon 120 footer for 160m soon.
                                         Joe W4AAB

[KD3CN]

Yes I built an AHE-style short antenna.  Mine is a 90' end-to-end inverted-V, feedpoint up at about 42'.  That was all the room I had.  Works FB.

Buddly - hope the new job is going well.  The WFDN still meets, it's mostly Friday and Saturday nights.  It will most likely get on more frequently as the season improves.

Fred - The AHE antenna is very easy to build, and works very well.  Also, if you have trouble obtaining a match with the link-coupled tuner, you might consider putting together a Measures double-L balanced tuner.  I did and found that the two controls were preferable for finding a match.

Here is some info on the tuner if you are intested:
http://www.somis.org/bbat.html

73, Karl

[WA1GFZ]

Karl,
Do you know the inductance and cap values required to tune your antenna?
Also how long is your feed line?

[ke7trp]

I feel bad for you Fred.  This time in 2 years you will be surounded by Rentals with duplexes full of chinese electronics. They will just call the landlord and complain 24/7. I would have a conversation with this man now letting him know this station exists and what he is up against.

I would get your new antenna up and take some pictures to start to document that this station was there before the new units.  Get ready for a battle. I hope everything works out for you and really wish you dont have to deal with what I go through here. 



C

[KD3CN]

Karl,
Do you know the inductance and cap values required to tune your antenna?
Also how long is your feed line?

Hey Frank,

That's strange, I know that I listed the L and C values in a previous post here, but now I can't find it with searches.  I listed the values for 40m, 80m and 160m.

The feedline is about 70' of W7FG ladder line.  My normal tuner setup is a pair of TenTec rollers, I think about 17uH each.  The cap is about a 1000pf breadslicer from Palstar, the same one they install in their version of the tuner.  I have found a  match on 40 thru 160 with these components.  For 160 I have to add a little L (about 10uH) to each inductor.  If you want the actual L and C values I'll have to find my data in the shack, or find it on my previous post.

The really nice thing about this tuner(as you know) is that the balun is on the 50 ohm input side.  Less worry about burning up toroids or losing power in the balun.

73, Karl

[WA1GFZ]

I'm all set Karl. I was hoping that you got away with lower L values since the 160m Z is lower. Sounds like you are close to my values. I run a pair of 22uh variable inductors on 160 at full value. It would be happier with slightly more L
I have 2 matched 12uh inductors that would make a nice tuner.

[K5UJ]

I'm not sure that linear loaded corner fed antenna is going to give you a balanced feedline.

you could perhaps put up two antennas:  an unbalanced coax fed inverted L on 160, and a dipole for 80 and 40.   The horizontal part of the inverted L can have some bends in it to make it fit.  That's what I have done.  Then you can put up a regular center fed 1/2 wave dipole for 75 and let the ends dangle down to fit it in your space.

These antennas being what they are, avoid having to deal with very high currents either in the feedline or in the matching network (or both) that may result from having a small antenna on the operating frequency.  Of course you can go with the small antenna but the no. 16 wire W7FG uses, and the Ten Tec inductors may not be able to handle the current.

How big is your lot Fred?   Maybe you posted that but I missed it.  I am on
50 x 100 feet at my place and I am in town.   It's tricky getting the antennas to fit in the space and work with each other but it can be done.  irony isThe  that in some ways it costs more to put up antennas in a small space than it does in a big one.  If there is QRN from appliances you can deal with that up to apoint

[flintstone mop]

I'll be stepping out the space for the new leg. This is not the best time for this, but as Don mentioned it may not be cold enough yet haaaaaa!.

I can use the utility pole as one end and run some long dacron rope to one of the pines waaaay in the back of our property for the other leg. This will keep the antenna more than 100 feet from a neighbor. Now the one end with the RF will be closer to the house. I walked this antenna with a field strength meter and the ends are hot with RF. The last 30 feet of antenna is where the RF field is really hot??? On both ends. So RFI might become a problem to us... eeeek
I'll just have to extend the feedline OWL and support to the center point.
Time to get out the eazy sling and try to get this together while I am off during the Christmas time.

And Clark, you have a good idea. I will notify the owner when he rents out, that there will always be that possibility of RFI and it is not my problem. The plasma TV's are getting closer. GAWD!!!!

Time to work.......today is going to be sunny? near 40....
Fred

[flintstone mop]

Hey Rob
I am on a 1.1 acre lot. 100 feet wide by 600 feet. So, I am rebuilding the dipole as I stated in my last post. We have very tall pines in the back and the antenna will now be FLAT 70 feet high and full length.

WX is not good for today............flurries and 36.... I needs a little sun to get the blood going. Sunny and 40 or so is my better time.
Fred

[flintstone mop]

PROGRESS!!!
The NEW antenna is on the edge of happening.
I will need to add an additional 150 feet of ladder line.......no problem

But I need advice how to cut down a tree. Some of the 'junk' growth in my back yard. Probably an Elm about 40 feet high. Looks like two separate shoots.
How to cut it down to fall in a specific direction so, clean up is easier and it does not fall into another tree. This is not a crowded woods setting. I see a path that it can easily fall, but how to get it to do that is the question.
Thanks
Fred