Extending WI-FI Signal

[KX5JT]

In the venerable words of the late Jerry Garcia "If the thunder don't get ya then the lightning will!"

[k4kyv]

Same goes for PCS-based phones.  And those electronic blue-eyed cockroaches in you ear, radiating at your brain constantly. 

What is a PCS-based phone?  I looked up PCS and found a couple of dozen possible definitions, and none of the ones related to communications technology made any sense in this context.

I agree with Bear (or was it Terry?) who complained that this alphabet soup business is getting ridiculous.

A wireless internet connection doesn't have a transmitting antenna an inch or less from your brain cells, and since the radiation follows the inverse-square law, the transmitter would have to run quite a bit of power to reach cell-phone level, unless you mounted the wireless router on the headboard of your bed. And it's not even settled that non-ionising microwave radiation poses any biological danger.

E.U. bureaucrats hit the panic button way too easily - witness the ban against lead solder and the resulting tin-whisker problem. I also recall a couple of years ago something about EU rf radiation standards that would limit hams to transmitter power <50 watts, but have heard nothing more about it lately. I suspect a lot of this has more to with control freaks and power tripping than with soundly based scientific evidence.

At the WLW transmitter site, the gate is locked with a warning notice that the rf radiation level on the other side of the fence exceeds what the FCC deems as safe. Yet the transmitter engineer's house is located well on the other side of that fence. And hams are supposed to run an rf safety evaluation at our stations.

Many people are adamantly in denial about global warming and climate change. That issue, also, is not settled, but I would venture to say the evidence regarding climate change is stronger than the  evidence concerning the alleged harmful effects of non-ionising rf energy.

This is not to say that I would want to keep a mobile phone glued to my ear for hours every day, as many people apparently do. But I am no more scared of a wireless internet transmitter in the house than I am of radiation from my HF antenna or my 160m vertical.

[W7TFO]

>PCS (Personal Communications Service) phone work the 1.9 GHZ band.

>About 'alphabet soup', hams are into it from the get-go with 'Q' signals, RST, tube types, eTc. 

>>Tin whiskers, climate change are just more thread hijacks.

.Broadcast and HF operations are not at fault here, humans just don't absorb RF at those freqs.  Even Diathermy at around 20 meters is so poorly absorbed by the body, you needed metal plates stuck to you to get it coupled.

Jeez, delve into the old articles about the use of RF for more than just radio.  Microwave frequencies were found best for cooking, sterilizing, and welding.  Also check out the precautions when using them.

Millimeter wave radars...any measurable exposure was to be avoided.  What is the difference?

It all has to do with the frequencies involved and the time (WI-FI is on 24/7, no?) being irradiated with them.

Please, enjoy your WI-Fi et al.  I acknowledge EHF (Extreme High Frequencies) communications are here to stay.  At least we have the opt-out of not bathing our corpus with that RF at home.

'It is just a small, almost immeasurable amount of signal!'.  Yeah, and a single microbe can give you the plague...

If anyone asked me (and no one did), I personally feel it will prove to be as big a danger as the tragedy of Thalidomide.  If that drug had the PR & $$ behind it the telecom biz does, it would still be given to expectant mothers today with all sorts of 'There is no proof it hurts you' BS.

Praise be to the FCC and the telecom lobby!

Keep an open mind, and I hope it will not be one with the help of a brain surgeon.

73DG

[WB2EMS]

Be sure to check on the 'polarity' of the external antennas and the connectors on the USB dongle or other devices. Some use the standard connectors, but many use so called 'reverse polarity' (RP) connectors, such as an RP-SMA which instead of having a pin on the plug and a center socket on the chassis mounted jack, have the center pins reversed. The FCC required these to try to control folks adding better antennas to type accepted equipment.

If you look at the reviews for USB device, one writer complains that adding an external antenna didn't do anything to increase the range. My first guess on the problem there would be a mismatch of connector 'polarities' ending up with a center socket on both halves. That can be remedied with a small piece of solid wire in some cases cut to length and slid into the one side and mating up with the other.

The wireless USB dongle only states it's an SMA connector, not whether it's normal or RP. The yagi antenna described up above in the thread does specify an RP-SMA connector, which means it will have a center socket instead of a pin. If they are both RP, they will mate up fine and work. If the dongle connector is not RP, then it will have a socket on the 'female' side, and need a bridging wire as I described. A small piece of #24 telephone wire has done it for me in the past.

[k4kyv]

Be sure to check on the 'polarity' of the external antennas and the connectors on the USB dongle or other devices. Some use the standard connectors, but many use so called 'reverse polarity' (RP) connectors, such as an RP-SMA which instead of having a pin on the plug and a center socket on the chassis mounted jack, have the center pins reversed. The FCC required these to try to control folks adding better antennas to type accepted equipment.

So, if I understand correctly, the "sex" (male or female) of one of the connectors is reversed, and your solution is to insert a short piece of wire into one of the female connectors to make it function as a male? But what about the reverse threads mentioned in the page below, and do you ever encounter a male-to-male socket/plug situation?

If it works, it's a lot cheaper than this:

http://www.fairviewmicrowave.com/reverse_polarity_adapters.htm

More reasonable prices here:

http://www.pacificcable.com/Reverse-Polarity-Adapters.html

[KX5JT]

So, if I understand correctly, the "sex" (male or female) of one of the connectors is reversed, and your solution is to insert a short piece of wire into one of the female connectors to make it function as a male?

You never know these days.

[WB2EMS]

Don,

I have not personally run into any reversed thread (do they mean opposite sense screw rotation?), only the sex of the center conductor being reversed. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or hasn't been mandated by the government. If it's confusing as hell, and a waste of time, and doesn't accomplish anything useful, you can be pretty certain the only reason it exists is a government agency thought it up and required it, as in this case. 

[WBear2GCR]

Good call on that yagi's connector!

I did not notice the nomenclature and take note that it might mean something!

But I bought an 8dBi mag mountie vertical ant from the same mfr that makes the USB dongle wifi thingie, so I presume it is plug and go... I'll see it later this week and check to see if the gozinta and the gozouta woik twogetter, and witch whey dey pernt!

                       _-_-bear

Why would the FCC think that mucking up a connector gender would stop anyone from anything other than going into the gender-bender biz??

[WB2EMS]

Why would the FCC think that mucking up a connector gender would stop anyone from anything other than going into the gender-bender biz??

Because there are no engineers left in the place, only lawyers?

[WBear2GCR]

Well the things came in... seem to work FB OM!
4 bars where I had one before...

Turns out that they are now making 500mw and 1000mw versions...

With the ant gain in my situation I doubt that I need it... but its out there anyhow...

                       _-_-bear

[k4kyv]

From reading the posts in this thread, and information gleaned elsewhere, I have come up with a tentative plan.  How does this sound?

(1) Replace the cheap little wireless router with something rated for maximum range and using an external antenna attached via a connector. Experiment with locations and if necessary, different antennas, to get rid of dead spots within the house.

(2) Add a second wireless access point, and feed it via ethernet cable from one of the wired ports on the  router.  Locate it in whatever spot in the house (or outside) that puts the best signal into the shack, and orient the antenna for best results. Make sure the two units are operating on different channels.

I have surfed some web sites for equipment, and found one outfit that makes an indoor/outdoor WAP with a built-in directional antenna that has something like 12 dB gain, plus a connector allowing the use of a separate external antenna. It appears to be basically a wireless router with high rf output and directional antenna, without all the usual wired ports.  I assume each unit (router and WAP)would have its own security protocol, but where the signals overlap, it would be like in a hotel where you may get two signals, and you just click on the one you want to connect to and log in. The thing costs about $50.  

This would be far easier than trying to run an ethernet cable all the way to the shack, where the computer or other device would be tethered to a wire, and the cable would be subject to weather deterioration and the risk of lightning damage, although ethernet cables are supposed to be good for distances up to about 300 ft.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

You can also buy Cat 5 and Cat 6 cables are suitable for "direct burial", and this usually requires that the cable be gel filled in order to hinder moisture migration into the cable. Around 300 feet is generally considered a maximum run. Longer runs would require some type of repeater.

[k4kyv]

Critters ate holes in my "direct burial" feed-line coax.

[AndySWL]

Hello:

 1st. Post,I have used these antennas for residential and comercial applications,they work excellent.



http://www.wifi-plus.com/antennas/24ghzantennasspecs.html

You will need a router or access point with an external antenna connector,look for a medium power router or access point with 125mw to 250mw output,home routers are average 20mw to 30mw and they come with a less than 1db gain antennas


Vy 73 de Andy

[WBear2GCR]

Seems nice enough for outdoor use, but only 3dbi.

They seem to have some other ants, but no prices that I saw in a quick look.

The vert I got was 8dBi and the yagi above is more... of course the yagi is
directional, but like for k4kyv, that is a good thing going out the shack...

                 _-_-bear

[K3ZS]

I just received the MFJ mail catalog.   There are several 2.4GHz gain antennas, including a yagi, in it.

[WB2EMS]

To answer your post from last week.

From reading the posts in this thread, and information gleaned elsewhere, I have come up with a tentative plan.  How does this sound?

(1) Replace the cheap little wireless router with something rated for maximum range and using an external antenna attached via a connector. Experiment with locations and if necessary, different antennas, to get rid of dead spots within the house.
(

That's a good first step to improve indoor access. If you can check the RF output ratings and the antenna gain specs, that will help steer you to better units and away from just marketing hype. I find getting the router up higher (mine is on a file cabinet) away from some of the desk and furniture clutter and near the center of the house or near the area of interest helped. Metal desk, tables, bookshelves, etc all block or absorb signal. Being higher tends to get over those obstructions and confine the losses to just going through the walls.

(2) Add a second wireless access point, and feed it via ethernet cable from one of the wired ports on the  router.  Locate it in whatever spot in the house (or outside) that puts the best signal into the shack, and orient the antenna for best results. Make sure the two units are operating on different channels.

This is sensible also. Generally there are 3 'channels' of the 11 that don't overlap. Basically your choices are channel 1, 6, and 11. 11 is up near the amateur end of the spectrum, when I was using AO40 I made sure to put my wireless stuff on channel 1. The bandwidth of the signal is broad enough that it spills over several of the channels at the higher data rates.

You can give the two wireless systems different SSID names so you can tell them apart, like "Home" and "shacklink" so you can tell which one you are connecting to.

Sometimes changing polarization is helpful. In environments where there is a lot of other WiFi around, I will set up a link using the antennas rotated into horizontal polarization to minimize interference from routers I don't control. That doesn't sound like it's an issue for you.

If you are going outside, you'll want an AP or router that is weather proof or very well protected from the weather.

I have surfed some web sites for equipment, and found one outfit that makes an indoor/outdoor WAP with a built-in directional antenna that has something like 12 dB gain, plus a connector allowing the use of a separate external antenna. It appears to be basically a wireless router with high rf output and directional antenna, without all the usual wired ports.  I assume each unit (router and WAP)would have its own security protocol, but where the signals overlap, it would be like in a hotel where you may get two signals, and you just click on the one you want to connect to and log in. The thing costs about $50. 

Got any details on that unit? I think you are confusing security protocols with the SSID that the router or access point broadcasts. You can set that SSID as I noted above. Or, for some (weak) security by obscurity, you can set it to not broadcast any SSID at all, which keeps the very casual users from noticing that it's there. You will know what the SSID is and what to set up your computer to connect to.

As far as security protocols, some folks run with no security, some with weak security like WEP which is pretty crackable with tools you can download, or with stronger protocols like TKIP, AES, etc. If your client devices support the stronger protocols you should use them. But your rural situation may not pose many threats of folks connecting to your system (ie parking on the street nearby and logging in through your wireless to do things they don't want to do from their own IP address). The directional gain antenna pointed at the shack would make the exposure in that direction from someone similarly equipped with a high power client and gain antenna possible. When operating off the boat with a 14 db gain antenna, I can sometimes connect to open AP's miles away.

This would be far easier than trying to run an ethernet cable all the way to the shack, where the computer or other device would be tethered to a wire, and the cable would be subject to weather deterioration and the risk of lightning damage, although ethernet cables are supposed to be good for distances up to about 300 ft.

The standard range for ethernet cable in good shape is 100 meters. But as you noted, there are issues with buried cable. My shack, including an SDR receiver on 24/7, is connected to my cable modem by 802.11 b wireless and has been for several years.

If you want to remotely access things from the internet when you're not at the house, you'll have to get into the routers and set up the NAT tables to route the various ports to the correct machines, and also probably want to 'reserve' specific IP addresses for specific mac addresses so the machines don't swap IP's as they come on and off the system. While you're doing that, it's not a bad idea to lock out any mac addresses that aren't in your net.

Let us know how you make out.

[WA3VJB]

Kevin's reference to MAC addresses is worth elaborating upon.

If there's a chance, Don, you've got neighbors who might want to bootleg your service, you can set your system up to recognize ONLY your MAC addresses. These are unique identifiers of the hardware you wish to allow onto your system, including wireless printers, SDR receivers, etc.

I helped a colleague provide access to his apartment neighbor, but not the entire complex, by talking him through identifying her MAC address so it could be added to his list of hardware.

This is in addition to WEP password protection, and turning off the beacon so casual users won't see your wi-fi.  

One downside of turning off your beacon (the SSID) is that someone might get service and set up shop on the same channel you're using.

I suggest moving your wi-fi away from Ch. 6, which is the default for most routers.  Picking anywhere else can increase your range when co-channel users are nearby and your signal is less than strapping.