Quiet Conditions Last Night

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Conditions were excellent, nary a static crash to be heard down here in 4 Land. I worked a couple locals earlier in the evening on 80m, then came out later to find Tim VE6PG calling CQ on 3725. He was 10-30 over into NC from Ontario with his Viking II CD, as good as I ever heard him up north.

Did hear the CCA net and one other AM group up in the ghetto area, and a LOT of SSB activity up and down the band, even below 3700 was hopping. Going into static season, last night was a gift for sure. Wish I could've kept my eyes open longer to take better advantage of it, but I crashed around 2300.

Hopefully tonight will be similar. Temps are starting to build down here again, 80s by tomorrow, so it won't last long.

[KM1H]

I was on 80 CW at evening grayline and the band was so quiet with the Beverages pointing at EU and AF that it was a pleasure to work the pee weak stations. Some EU were S9+

The noise level rose in the daylight directions but just as a steady backround, no static.

[K1JJ]

Todd,

Signal reports for you -

I was listening to 3705 at about 4:30PM EST and there you were at about S9+5. It was very early to be hearing NC coming thru. Your dipole at 20' and KW-1 were doing well. You were about 10db louder than the other guy.

Later on at about 6PM? I tuned into 3725 and heard you at S9+40 over. Incredibly strong signal for a calibrated s-meter on the 1000D.  Your audio sounded clean with ~ 4kc audio bandwidth per side.

When you get that antenna up higher, you should have no problem working the NE on a regular basis.

T

[K5UJ]

It was great here too.  I fired everything up a bit earlier than usual and came across the collins net on 3880 and checked into that for the first time.  I was using the dipole up 45 feet.  I have the 2x3-500 amp going again with 1 MHz mica load padding caps and its output seems really solid now.  This was the midwest part of the net.  I think it moves across the continent in one or two hour steps.  The midwest net ended around 9 p.m. local and the west took over.  I went out and switched in the 1/4 w. vertical and checked in again but found that I could copy much better using the small rotatable capacitor tuned rx loop in the back yard.  I may stick with that combination on 75 for a few days and see how the signal reports are with the vertical in the evening.  I have not used it much.

Rob

[k4kyv]

160 was just as quiet, too.  Worked a couple of stations.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Todd,

Signal reports for you -

TNX fer the first hand reports, Tom. I especially appreciate hearing that the signal is clean and not excessively wide. I think Steve checked it for me a few years back and said it was less than 10kHz total, so that sounds about right. I wonder what you thought of the audio, were there enough highs? Several folks earlier tonight commented that they liked the sound of the transmitter.

The 80m dipole is actually up 40-50 ft on the ends, only the center droops down to around 20ft. We talked about getting it up higher last weekend, along with adding a tall mast for a center support. That's the next big radio purchase.

Meanwhile the bands are incredibly quiet again tonight. Wish I had the 40m aerial back up, that would be a fun place to be I bet. Will be heading back down to 80m in the next 30-40 minutes or so. Hope there's still some folks awake by then. 

[K1JJ]

Hi Todd,

I would say the audio sounded about "average" compared to the masses.  It was reasonably clean, but did not have the big boss sound. It is a typical stock KW-1.  It was working as designed.  If not already, why not add a 12 band (or more) audio EQ and see if you can slam thru some more bass?  I'll bet you could get the Tron's opinion to help set it more mellow. You can use two curves - one for quiet rag chewing and one for punching thru to the other side.

I have been getting on earlier in the late afternoon/early evening with the locals lately on 75M. The band has been rather noisy at night, but maybe we'll put out a few calls for west this weekend.

Your antenna: It willl act like the average height, so let's figure your ant is at about 30' high.  The high center mast will make a HUGE difference. Going from 130' to 170' is nothing. But going from 30' to 70' is significant. You will pick up maybe 12db up here when the band opens in the early evening. Maybe 8db later on, all due to lower vertical angles.


T

[WD8BIL]

Hi Todd,

I was listening Thursday evening to you at @5:30PM local and it sounded good in Budland. Your siganiganal began at S7 and by the time you finished the mobil station, who was real pissweak, you were up to +10 or so.

I wud've joined in but I wanted to get the 10 Meter receiver repaired..... and I did!!

[K5UJ]

<<< If not already, why not add a 12 band (or more) audio EQ and see if you can slam thru some more bass?>>>

That would do nothing for intelligibility;  It might even make him harder to understand.  If Todd doesn't have a naturally deep voice it would just make him sound artificial than anything else.   Audio power is gotten with compression and limiting; not just equalizing.  the mid-range and highs are where the intelligibility is, but the mod iron has to be up to it.   I don't know if the KW-1 can handle a lot of high average power and neg. peak limited audio or not.

Rob   

[K1JJ]

Actually, Todd has a great voice for AM radio, but the transmitter is not doing him justice as-is *IF* he is looking for the hi-fi sound. If he just wants "punch" then that's a different story.  Right now he has almost no deep bass at all coming thru. He has some in person, not a lot, but some. Adding some low end bass boost may be just what is needed. Maybe and maybe not - it's worth a try to see.  As far as intelligibility, that's why I suggested two EQ audio curves - one for AM DX and one for close in rag chewing when signals are big.   The smiley face EQ curve can do wonders for the average male voice. Mine needs it deperately or I sound muddy. For my voice, the EQ settings are critical to getting the right sound.

There will never be agreement amongst AMers about what constitutes "good" audio. Some will prefer punch, some will prefer stock, while others prefer the broadcash sound. It's like chasing the wind trying to adjust it for everyone's taste.

However, there comes a certain combination where most everyone will agree. With the right voice, super clean audio, equalizing and processing, we get a handful of stations who get audio compliments all the time. Guys like Steve/QIX, Paul/VJB, Gary INR, Mike/KO6NM, Bob/KBW and others have found that certain combination. Almost everyone will agree they sound spectacular. But most of us settle for "good to average" audio that works OK for whatever reason. This may or may not be what we want.  

So, I say, Todd might try some things to find his best sound. Generally we can do better than just a D-104 plugged into a rig. (Assuming that's what we are looking for)  

T

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Tom sed:

If not already, why not add a 12 band (or more) audio EQ and see if you can slam thru some more bass?

then Rob sed:

If Todd doesn't have a naturally deep voice it would just make him sound artificial than anything else.   Audio power is gotten with compression and limiting; not just equalizing.    

..both of which I found ironic and interesting for 2 reasons: first, I really don't have a thumping low 3rd ba voice like Jay/WWL and have heard plenty of the stations up on 75m who splatter up and down the band with their attempts at outboard distortion processing. It's something that never interested me because of the latter: why draw attention to yourself with a wide, messy signal?

Second, the KW-1 does limit bass to some extent by design. Believe it or not Tom, it sounded more 'stock' before I went through and swapped the coupling caps from .01 back to .1 like the earlier KW-1s had. Also changed the grid input resistor for the mic input from 1 meg to 4.7 megs to better match the crystal D-104 which I use now. But even that limits the bass, a 8 or 10 meg would pass more.

But the D-104 isn't a bassy mic, more of a mid range peak with plenty of highs. And though my voice isn't in the 'how low can you go' category, I'd like it to sound at least a bit more accurate. Add to that an absolutely beautiful RCA 77D ribbon mic that I've been dying to use and the irony comes in.

Any minute now, a sweet little JoeMeek ThreeQ will be arriving at the door (I checked, it sez 'out for delivery'). On the suggestion of Joe/PJP I picked this up to use on the KW-1 as a way of equalizing the 77 for use, but also for the limiter/compressor it has which will not only help out the audio, but keep those rogue over modulation spikes from sneaking into the mod iron. Best of all, it has line level audio output, which will allow me to plug it directly into the phone patch socket and bypass the somewhat limited mic amp stage.

So in effect, later today I'll be doing what both of you have highlighted: adding some level of equalization as well as compression and limiting. Voila!   I'll be experimenting with it today, so stay tuned - more to come.

I was listening Thursday evening to you at @5:30PM local and it sounded good in Budland. Your siganiganal began at S7 and by the time you finished the mobil station, who was real pissweak, you were up to +10 or so.

I wud've joined in but I wanted to get the 10 Meter receiver repaired..... and I did!!

That is one SWEET 10m rig, Buddly! I had one of those back in my high school days for internet use (CB was our internet in VT back in the 70s). Hand built on the shores of Lake Winnipesaukee in Laconia, NH with point-to-point wiring. Has a Nuvistor front end, too! You probably noticed the 6 kHz Collins mechanical filter in the receiver section. Those rigs sold for over $800 back in the mid 70s. I got mine for $100 and some creative trading. Still have it in storage, so I'll be interested to hear how you make out with yours on 10. Hopefully it will retain its *ping*.

BTW, that was Larry K3JRR who was mobile last night. Couldn't tell of he was heading north from or south to the place he just bought in the VA mountains. He was in there for several hours along with Tom, W3BYM.

[K1JJ]

and have heard plenty of the stations up on 75m who splatter up and down the band with their attempts at outboard distortion processing. It's something that never interested me because of the latter: why draw attention to yourself with a wide, messy signal?

Properly set up processors and limiting will actually make a signal more contained and controllable. It is not easy to set up properly.  Contrast this to a Valiant running wide open with no audio limiting of any kind.

I realize processors (multiband especially) have a bad rep for splatter, but they really are effective tools for running clean when adjusted and run properly.  

I think some of the stations you mention are not running audio filtering in the low level stages (most of the time by choice) and are wider for the sake of high fidelity. I personally don't agree with this practice on crowded bands and feel most AM activity should be run at brickwall + - 5KC, (just like AM broadcash service) with an occassional wider response during the quiet daytime hours, if desired.

Processing can help us stay within 5KC and still have dense audio that sounds great.


Todd, I think in a month or so when you are finished experimenting with the new audio settings and gear, you will have a better product in the end and be satisfied. Thinking about it is the first step.

T

[K1JJ]

Todd,

Thinking more about it, I have an idea.  We can talk until we're BIF about audio OR take 30 minutes and do it scientifically....

Go in there with an audio sig gen and sweep the rig from say, 60hz to 7kc at 95% modulated and see how it does. Using a scope on the RF output, look at how flat it is (in db) and what the waveform looks like thru-out the range.

THEN put the scope at the input of the modulator grids and determine how good the driver is at full power. Is this the bottleneck?

If the driver falls apart, then build up a GFZ MOSFET audio driver. It's simply a matter of disconnecting the two modulator grids and hooking up the two GFZ wires. Easy mod to undo. Pull out the KW-1 audio driver tubes and pack them away on the shelf. If the mod xfmr is of good quality, then that will be the best sounding KW-1 on the air...

For the initial sweep test, can you trace out what the waveform looks like at 60hz, 100, 200, 300, 1kc, 3kc and 5kc?  Use paper held against the screen. Scan and post them or just take some pics if you can.  We can then suggest the best path.


In the end you might find the rig is FB as-is and just needs a little EQing, but this will tell the full story for sure, OM.

T

[ve6pg]

..todd..i werked wa2roc last night on 3725..gud sig here....btw, the rig is one that i've never herd a U.S. ham use....viking 2 C-C...military designation for the canadian military is FRT-505...no push to talk, no mod limiter like the CD...1.7-30mc...
...look for you soon...

..sk..

[K5UJ]

My intent was to merely caution against egregious amounts of bass.   Some of the slopbucketeers are into that.  Been there; done it, before I wised up.   As Tom said, the key is density i.e. a high average audio via compression and a peak limiter that can be driven to get that level.  It is easy to do with the right boxes and a plastic radio like I have.  It is a lot harder to do with vintage ham gear because the gear was made to be operated with an xtal mic right into the grid of the preamp.   some guys use proc. boxes on broadcast tx because they were made for that (to some extent; the older ones not as much).  I have a friend running an 820D with a Symmetrix 528 and he sounds fantastic. 

But anyway, a couple thoughts:  If you can get one (big IF I know) can the KW-1 benefit from having a mod. reactor and blocking cap added to it.  I have wondered about that for awhile.  It could probably be added on behind the rig to avoid drilling and blasting so the rig cabinet is kept original; just don't have any kids or pets around.   I wonder if getting B+ off the mod tran secondary would help.

Re voice a little tip -- sometimes before an operating session (when I remember to do it) I spend a few minutes conditioning my voice to get the pipes in shape.   On a dry winter day, I sip hot water to get my throat wet and do some voice exercises (ooo rah oooo rah, peter piper picked a peck of pickled peppers....etc.) for a minute or two to find my resonant voice.   If I just sit down and call CQ with no voice conditioning there's no telling what junk will come out     So reciting the alphabet and saying some tongue twisters and blowing out your lips can give you a speech processor for a lot less than what one of the electronic ones costs hi hi.  Hey, the CW guys practice sending off the air (or they ought to). 

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

..todd..i werked wa2roc last night on 3725..gud sig here....btw, the rig is one that i've never herd a U.S. ham use....viking 2 C-C...military designation for the canadian military is FRT-505...no push to talk, no mod limiter like the CD...1.7-30mc...
...look for you soon...

Dick is about 35 minutes or so from here so he booms in. Worked him on his little Starflite transmitter last night.

Sorry about the mis-designation on the Viking II. It sounded like you said CC but my mind heard CD as I've never heard of the former. Whatever it is - it sure makes the trip well from Ontario to NC!

Thinking more about it, I have an idea.  We can talk until we're BIF about audio OR take 30 minutes and do it scientifically....

Which sounds like a plan, as soon as I get a sig genny down here. Will be picking up the last of my stuff stored up north soon.

Meanwhile, I got the threeQ set up with the 77D earlier and it seems to work. The line out was strong enough to power headphones, so I got it dialed in fairly close before ever going on the air. Ralphie said it sounded like me, you can't get much closer scientifically than that.

One thing that is odd: the mic preamp needs to be all the way up on the threeQ to get the 77 to work. But when it does, it sounds okayfine. Gonna try to catch up with Steve on the air this weekend to do some testing and recording. Static crashes were horrendous tonight. Two lines of storms passing over us here.

It strikes me that I'll need to figure out the waveform on the scope again as the compressor does away with those nice peaks that were so easy to see. 

[KM1H]

I ran into an old friend of yours yesterday Todd....he told me an awful lot of your infamous activities in VT.....how is that old soda cooler that you had to remove from a building in Barre?

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

I ran into an old friend of yours yesterday Todd....he told me an awful lot of your infamous activities in VT.....how is that old soda cooler that you had to remove from a building in Barre?

Ah, yes - that would be what's known on here as the Big Fridge. Late 20s G.E., weighs in at a half ton or more. We had to remove one of the plate glass store windows to get it through into the back of the Penske truck. Then a group of us slid it on its back up through the window opening and onto some dollies we'd built waiting in the truck. We also got a little fridge with it from the 40s-50s.

I can guess who you talked to, I bet you're fixing an amp for him. He's the one who helped me pick up the KW-1 at the antique shop and said "Are you sure you want this thing???". He sold me my BC-610 that now resides in Maine and helped me pick up the wedding gift T-368. He's machined parts for me and helped me build antennas over the years, helped take down my first tower, all kinds of good stuff. Definitely one of the good guys.

Now I wonder what else he told you. Just remember, I was a good boy every day, very angelic, quiet, and respectful. Just like I am now. 

[KM1H]

Well put it this way, I got a big earfull from Ray, Barbara, and Aloiana (sp?) in the HRO parking lot yesterday as I was lugging an amp into the Toreass.

Seems you were definitely well known for lots of reasons

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Does this look like the culprit Carl?

We won't get into all those reasons. Suffice it to say that I'm leading a quiet, unassuming life in the NC countryside these days.....  

[Steve - K4HX]

Todd and I did some testing earlier. I made quite a few recordings. To cut to the chase, I combinded two short clips into one file. The first part is the D-104 straight into the KW-1. The second is the RCA 77 through the 3Q box and into the KW-1. I'll let your ears be the judge.

[K5UJ]

I listened to it several times.   What rx was used to make the recordings?  what was its passband?  I think the D104 is best for long distance.  The RCA setup seemed to have slightly higher frequencies and more low frequency and low boost for a "broadcast" type sound.  I would not want any more bass than what is there for it would start to compromise readability in my opinion.  I am trying to imagine myself copying this audio under poor condx--QSB, local noise etc.   Without having heard Todd in person I get the impression somehow that both are pretty close to real life sound, perhaps with a slight edge to the D104. 

Obviously all audio comments like this are subjective and opinion only with nothing technically factual for basis.  I went through this stage several years ago during which I solicited opinions and bent myself into a pretzel to try to get a sound that everyone liked.  When I realized what b.s. that was, I started listening to my dummy load signal with a wide passband flat response rx and set it all up to please only me and told everyone else to ... you know.   So I recommend listening to yourself on a decent rx or diode detector, find the sound you think is good, and move on.   

[K1JJ]

Todd and I did some testing earlier. I made quite a few recordings. To cut to the chase, I combinded two short clips into one file. The first part is the D-104 straight into the KW-1. The second is the RCA 77 through the 3Q box and into the KW-1. I'll let your ears be the judge.

I think the second recording with the RCA 77 and 3Q sounds very FB!  Big improvement and smoother to my ears.  The hum is significantly reduced too. It was worth the extra effort, Todd.

T

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

TNX, Tom. You sounded pretty nice down here this afternoon, up to 20 over when you signed.

I think it's dialed in pretty well now, thanks to Steve's keen ears and recordings. Unfortunately the static returned from line of storms passing through the area, so we had to curtail the testing for today. We did swap from the mic input to the line/patch input with excellent results, and left things in pretty good shape. We brought the bass up a bit, then moved it back closer to where it was. I definitely like the sound of it better than the D-104, not that the Astatic isn't a decent mic. It will always be the go-to mic when conditions require a more peaky audio signal to slice through the noise. But for casual armchair QSOs, the RCA 77D will get the job.

It doesn't look like tonight will produce the quiet conditions from a few nights ago, but it is fast becoming static season, so it's to be expected. I'm just happy to finally be back on the air, and to have the 77D in line. It's a shame to have something like that just sitting on a shelf. Still a bit to do once the Belden 8412 arrives, should cure any remaining hum issues. Then it's on to antenna work and other fun stuff.

[w3jn]

Quiet condx here in EUR this AM, other than the usual power supply buzzies etc.  K1KBW on 3875 and W1GT on 3884 booming in, relatively speaking.  Could even hear the Macaroni net on 3842 or whatever it was...