WWV/WWVB/WWVH Usage Survey

[W7TFO]

This is a link thru Radio World magazine about the survey www.time.gov is running.  If you use it, spend a few minutes and give them a reason to keep on running it.

73DG

http://www.rwonline.com/article/116078

[KX5JT]

Thanks Dennis, I've just finished the survey.

[flintstone mop]

Just keep our ATOMIC clocks going.

[KX5JT]

They not only put out the standard signals on shortwave, they also run servers to sync your computer clocks with the atomic clock AND send out the radio control for the popular wall clocks (and desk clocks) that receive and sync. 

It's a good idea to support them by taking the survey!

[KL7OF]

I wonder what the real cost to the taxpayers is for the WWV service???   I like the  voice on WWVH.....No matter where I am in the world I can find a woman that will speak to me in a civil tone.....

[flintstone mop]

The male voice sounds like he is from the Woodlawn Tenn area???

[WA1GFZ]

Done. I use WWV/WWVH a lot for testing broadband RX antennas.
The female voice tells me conditions are open to the west.

[KB2WIG]

I didn't know that the WWVB clock on my dresser is an atomic clock...  I'm gona throw it away befor it melts down.


klc

[flintstone mop]

I didn't know that the WWVB clock on my dresser is an atomic clock...  I'm gona throw it away befor it melts down.


klc

Too late.......are already glowing

[k4kyv]

I don't use WWV as much as I used to for time-of-day service, since I can get accurate time right off the computer, frequently updated via internet, but I have a couple of "atomic clocks" synced to WWVB. I still use WWV as a frequency standard.

Politicians are pushing to cut public funding for broadcast services. For example, UK has already discontinued BBC World Service to the primary English-speaking world (N America, Australia and New Zealand), and House members in the US have voted to kill NPR and PBS. I suppose WWV and WWVB would be a logical target too.

NPR costs us a grand total of about 35¢/year per capita, and PBS about $1.00/year. WWV/B/H probably costs us less than 5¢ each per year. Compared to the 4- or even 5-digit sum extracted from an ordinary worker or retiree each year by the IRS, this is high-profile deception to make it appear that elected officials are "doing something" and calling on the public to make "sacrifices".

[Steve - K4HX]

It took the survey. I find WWV useless. Time? I can get that from my computer or cell phone. 99.999 percent of the population does even know what shortwave is, let alone own a receiver to tune in WWV.

[Bill, KD0HG]

I have found 10 MHz WWV to be extremely useful to quickly verify calibration accuracy of measurement apparatus, also to zero beat 10 MHz TCXOs against.

Steve, 99.999 percent of the population doesn't know jack about technology, anyway. That's not justification to ditch the service.

[Steve - K4HX]

True. But 100's of millions use technology like cell phones and the Internet. They don't use WWV. Kill it.

[W7TFO]

Whatever the topic, one can always count on Steve to carry the N-1 moniker.

Not that it is a bad thing.

Back to the topic,   All those 'new generation' time sources rely on a single standard: GPS reference.  All controlled by our DOD.  One flick of the switch or failure, and that balloon is up & popped.

A second source (albeit also controlled by Uncle Sam) is a good idea.

73DG

[K6IC]

Hi Dennis,

Thanks for the spot on this survey.

I use the WWV/B service a lot.  It's hard to believe,  but my remote site has NO Internet or Cell Phone service.  Get time and Solar Indicies from WWV/H ... Quite useful,  and just another government service which I use,  and just kinna forgot about.  My chack clocks use WWVB.

I'll feel better all day just recalling this one good use of my taxes,  but, not necessarily yours).

TU,  Vic

[KD6VXI]

True. But 100's of millions use technology like cell phones and the Internet. They don't use WWV. Kill it.

Which, believe it or not, are mostly sync'ed to servers which in turn sync to NBS servers, sync'ed to, get this...  The Cesium clock WWV is sync'ed to.

It won't just be the shortwave transmitters killed....  Look at the cost savings of VOA vs. what it would be like to actually be ABLE to beam transmissions to a part of the world, instead of flying an airplane overhead spot beaming relays... From the United States. 

Cutting off a nose to spite ones face is still not best idea....  WWV does serve a purpose, even though you THINK you don't use it, most all time keeping apparatus in the USA is still in one way or another sync'ed to WWV.

--Shane
KD6VXI

[w8khk]

It is obvious there are many resources available for time sync.  In contrast, I consider WWV and WWVH more valuable as a convenient frequency standard resource.   

I wish there was as convenient a voltage and resistance reference for calibration of DVMs as WWV is for calibration of digital counters and RF generators.

[KD6VXI]

True.  The navy does the one via GPS...  My thought is this:

What about the delay from time of transmission to the time of reception.  If we are going to be THAT anal about being 'on time', doesn't the propogation delay figure in?

Or maybe the clocks / PC's, etc. take that into account.

I still believe NIST is the best source.  GPS / Navy time is covered everywhere, so is shortwave. 

I guess with the advent of cell phones married with GPS, maybe the phones are now getting sync'ed via gps instead of NiST...  I asked a friend who worked for Sprint Cell a few years ago how the system at Sprint was done, and he told me all via NiST servers.  This was pre-GPS cell's though.  Seems that would be the better way.

Maybe Steve's right, and we should shitcan it, only leaving the carriers out there

Lots of people will be upset if they do drop it, I'm sure...  An awful lot of the 'atomic clocks' and wristwatches have been sold, and I've installed a couple WWV to network time sync servers years ago...  They may or may not still be in service.


--Shane
KD6VXI

[WA3VJB]

I use it so I can hum along in musician's A, because I have perfect pitch and I can make sure they're on the mark.

[k4kyv]

Lots of people will be upset if they do drop it, I'm sure...  An awful lot of the 'atomic clocks' and wristwatches have been sold, and I've installed a couple WWV to network time sync servers years ago...  They may or may not still be in service.

If the FCC gets its way, they are about to kill GPS and irradiate the public with EMI many times more powerful than anything from a cell phone held next to your ear.

http://www.crunchgear.com/2011/03/11/fcc-approves-lightsquared-frequencies-gps-now-in-danger/

http://nlpc.org/stories/2011/03/01/will-fccs-political-favor-harbinger-hedge-fund-result-gps-interference

Note: I disagree that it's illegal to own a GPS jammer.  Only to operate it.

[W2PFY]

No home computer that most of us use is accurate as WWV. I took the survey, thought it would never end even though it wasn't that big of a survey.

I thought at some point cell phones, regular phone systems, cable TV companies etc. were all tied into the WWV system? 

[W7TFO]

My take is that the more good & useful SW originating in the USA, the better.  In agreement with Don, there is an overload of crap from religo-casters and blowhards.

Radio time from WWV/H is totally cool in my opinion, and I can't remember how many times (pun) I've let it run in the background whilst working at the bench 'cause I'm too busy to find something else good.

._ _  ._ _  ..._     .._.  _...

73DG

[Steve - K4HX]

Maybe it is N-1. I did post my own view (which is that I don't use WWV) - pretty much what the survey asked for. In the larger picture, I see time (no pun intended) and technology obsoleting WWV. I've also worked for an organization very concerned with time and frequency, and in my almost 30 years there, I've never seen a WWV receiver.

As always, your mileage may vary.

I guess with the advent of cell phones married with GPS, maybe the phones are now getting sync'ed via gps instead of NiST...  I asked a friend who worked for Sprint Cell a few years ago how the system at Sprint was done, and he told me all via NiST servers.  This was pre-GPS cell's though.  Seems that would be the better way.

Every cell tower I've seen has at least one GPS antenna on it. The carriers are very concerned with time. How else will they know how much to charge.    More importantly, considering the nature of how the cell system works, time synchronization of each cell site and each site in relation to the other cell sites is critical.

I already posted this in another thread ref computer clocks.

... in recent past versions of Windows, the time accuracy was poor, only within 1-2 seconds. This is because Windows did not properly implment NTP and the associated RFC. Unix/Linux OS do properly implment NTP and can maintain accuracy on the order of 10 mS over the Internet and something like a few hundred microseconds on a LAN.

You will not do much better (if better at all) using WWV via HF propagation.

[WBear2GCR]

I took the survey.

They would do well to publicize things like the time widget for websites...

Hope the keep it on the shortwave bands...

                        _-_-bear

PS. K4HX - you don't have a receiver in your shack that covers 2.5/5.0/10.0/15.0/20mHz?? That's a WWV receiver.

[Steve - K4HX]

PS. K4HX - you don't have a receiver in your shack that covers 2.5/5.0/10.0/15.0/20mHz?? That's a WWV receiver.

Sure, quite a few. None of them are tuned to any of those freqs. But I was talking about my professional experience, not the ham shack.